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Industrial music and its relationship(??) to fascism

Casually Red said:
and as regards all that paganism bollocks, a major part of that stuff is the complete absence of the concept of mercy , in contrast with the judeo christian belief in the meek inheriting the earth , love they neighbour etc.
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I'm interested in Norse and Pagan stuff, but I need to keep this nasty aspect in mind. I can't say the version I have in my head is "real", and the version these guys go for isn't!
 
frogwoman said:
well it's not just nazis in the industrial scene, it's bands like Psyclon Nine (that i later discovered was named after zyklon b) where the lyrics are really "nihilistic" and dark but there's no overt racism, or if there is they sort of deny it's racist and say things like "our drummer/whatever is jewish" or whatever. But even under those circumstances even if you're not a Nazi you're still a fucking twat, i mean the lead singer of Psyclon Nine has "ubermensch" tattooed across his chest and when asked about it he said some bollocks about the weak and the strong and that sort of shit. And loads of teenage goth girls seem to love it.
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Yeah, this seems to be a lot of it. All the ubermensch/everyone else is weak sort of stuff. Bring in a racial element and it can be genuinely sinister for obvious historical reasons, restrict it to you and your mates in some poxy band that nobody gives a shit about and it's just a bit pathetic. So a lot of them bottle out of going full Nazi or genuinely aren't into it, but won't reject it fully because then you're left with 'I'm dead superior me, I've got a leather coat and pulled a crowd of literally dozens to a middling sized pub back room in Camden last week.'

And it is a bit teenage as well, except most people grow out of it. I had a mate at school who dabbled a bit with some of these ideas. Last I heard he was a postman - nothing wrong with that but it's not very ubermensch is it?:D
 
Casually Red said:
and as regards all that paganism bollocks, a major part of that stuff is the complete absence of the concept of mercy , in contrast with the judeo christian belief in the meek inheriting the earth , love they neighbour etc . Theres a heavy dose of social darwinianism in there too. The satanism and paganism is an explicit rejection of you cant commit crimes against humanity because your encouraged to hate humanity and reject a morality that commands you to exercise mercy . The satanism feeds directly into the nazism. Its all just hate, darkness, war, violence and death .
Combine those themes and your well up Nazi street as regards your outlook . Add a few dodgy symbols and salutes, philosophers quotes...if your audience is or becomes comfortable with that lot theyll be a lot easier to turn .And theyll bump into plrnty of new freinds at the concerts or bars ...and online..wholl be happy to turn them .

insidious fucks
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Fortunately, there's a cure.

shanina.jpg
 
frogwoman said:
.... And loads of teenage goth girls seem to love it.....
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following this thread with interest since i am a massive coil fan - looking at some of these bands what has struck me alongside the execrable dij (do people seriously profess to enjoying that stuff on a purely musical and/or aesthetic level?) - is the amount of disgusting misogynistic content as well. someone mentioned liking combichrist i think - jaysus, i gave them a listen on youtube they sound like unpleasant bastards, going way beyond simple shock value and they're far from alone.
 
Lorca said:
following this thread with interest since i am a massive coil fan - looking at some of these bands what has struck me alongside the execrable dij (do people seriously profess to enjoying that stuff on a purely musical and/or aesthetic level?) - is the amount of disgusting misogynistic content as well. someone mentioned liking combichrist i think - jaysus, i gave them a listen on youtube they sound like unpleasant bastards, going way beyond simple shock value and they're far from alone.
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i listened to them a bit when i was younger - combichrist. not now. he says its just a character but I don't believe it.
 
I assume people have seen this? A good video attacking misogynist and racist imagery in industrial music (and including some, so maybe NSFW)

"Set to 'Friends of Father', this video was displayed during the final minutes of the Ad·ver·sary + Antigen Shift performance at Festival Kinetik 5.0."
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I think two of these misogynist groups was higher up the bill, so a good intervention.

 
Yes, and see the justification the other lot offered - remarkably similar to the waitan one:

At the 2012 Kinetik Festival, Combichrist were criticized from the stage by opening act Ad·ver·sary for "the use of misogynist and racist tropes in [the] band’s music and publicity materials.".[26] The presentation specifically took issue with the band's use of the Confederate Flag, the video for their song "Throat Full of Glass", and the lyric "all you feminist cunts / you know that you want it / give head if you got it" from the song "Give Head If You Got It".[27] To this Andy LaPlegua responded by saying "I have nothing negative to say to him [Jairus] at all. I have nothing to say in my defense for what I’ve done, I don’t feel like I should have to defend myself. It’s all fiction. Everybody who knows me knows that I am not the character. I am not pro or anti anything, really. I’m a realist, I know what’s wrong and I know what’s right, but I also believe in freedom of speech, and freedom of writing, about writing stuff I like to write about, if it’s fantasy or personal." He later added this statement on the subject of racism: "somebody stated that I was racist. Which is really funny, it's like “Based on what?” Oh, based on that you had a rebel flag shirt on. OK, I live in Atlanta, in Georgia. It's about 70% African American. If I were racist, first of all I probably wouldn't move to Atlanta. Second of all most of my friends there are African Americans. My studio complex, it's only hip-hop artists and I work with a lot of them including like, Ludacris and artists like that are in my building. The rebel flag was the Georgian state flag until 2001. It's just people are ignorant and they don't know what they're talking about and it just provokes me a little bit when people say...it doesn't provoke me that they state anything about me, it provokes me that they're ignorant enough to not know their history lesson when they're trying to be politically correct. At least know what you're talking about before you try to state something as political." [28]
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it doesn't provoke me that they state anything about me, it provokes me that they're ignorant enough to not know their history lesson when they're trying to be politically correct.
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they all come out with that crap.
 
but hilariously try and claim they're not at times even though their lyrics and videos are all sexist and racist.
 
lots of these bands are on Spotify.... so i guess anyone who allows their music to be distributed by Spotify should also be boycotted (in reference to the earlier point about that distro). it also meant i could have a (very brief) listen to them, it seems like all the ambiguous/fascist bands share in common that their music is unlistenably bad, like so unbelievably bad that they made me question if i should actually like music if those examples of it exist
 
frogwoman said:
If you're an anti-fash who questions them on it as well you're weak and an idiot and stupid, for not "understanding" how "profound" what theyre tryingto say. I bet they wouldn't say the same things about fash who weren't sure whether they were fash or not.
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Most of them mistake their pompousness for profundity, and get quite upset if you point that out to them. ;)
 
Jeremy Vile said:
What i don't get is how and why the outrageous neo-nazi bands like No Remorse openly peddle their wares on the web unhindered. If you can bear it, listen to the lyrics on this song below. But places like cdbaby openly sell this shit, which is just mentally OTT. How do they get away with it? Is it because of the laws in USA? I just don't get it how year after year nothing happens about this. Bands like skrewdriver ended up just doing songs about vikings and relics of the past, but this no remorse stuff is just plain sick, and sadly kids will buy it and listen to it!
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We have two choices:
1) Censorship on the internet.
2) No censorship oln the internet.

I favour option 2, and if it means having to spend time explaining to people why the lyrical content of some music is posturing fascist shite, then I'm cool with that.
 
Casually Red said:
and as regards all that paganism bollocks, a major part of that stuff is the complete absence of the concept of mercy , in contrast with the judeo christian belief in the meek inheriting the earth , love they neighbour etc . Theres a heavy dose of social darwinianism in there too. The satanism and paganism is an explicit rejection of you cant commit crimes against humanity because your encouraged to hate humanity and reject a morality that commands you to exercise mercy . The satanism feeds directly into the nazism. Its all just hate, darkness, war, violence and death .
Combine those themes and your well up Nazi street as regards your outlook . Add a few dodgy symbols and salutes, philosophers quotes...if your audience is or becomes comfortable with that lot theyll be a lot easier to turn .And theyll bump into plrnty of new freinds at the concerts or bars ...and online..wholl be happy to turn them .

insidious fucks
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You don't know much about Paganism, do you? :D

What you're dealing with in terms of this thread are post-Christian manifestations of what the celebrants believe to be pre-Christian rites. They're not, they're mostly interpretations of rites taken from translations of 8th and 9th century Eddas written by (oh the irony!) Christian monks.

Neo-Paganism has so many facets that just saying "paganism" is specious. You need to elucidate which paganism you're talking about.
 
Chick Webb said:
I'm interested in Norse and Pagan stuff, but I need to keep this nasty aspect in mind. I can't say the version I have in my head is "real", and the version these guys go for isn't!
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That's just it - any Norse Paganism these guys and gals espouse is a version of a version of a version. Any Norse Paganism is, just as Wicca is a version of a 60 year-old form that was drawn from all sorts of occult and ritual antecedents, and from none. :)
 
Casually Red said:
and as regards all that paganism bollocks, a major part of that stuff is the complete absence of the concept of mercy , in contrast with the judeo christian belief in the meek inheriting the earth , love they neighbour etc . Theres a heavy dose of social darwinianism in there too. The satanism and paganism is an explicit rejection of you cant commit crimes against humanity because your encouraged to hate humanity and reject a morality that commands you to exercise mercy . The satanism feeds directly into the nazism. Its all just hate, darkness, war, violence and death .
Combine those themes and your well up Nazi street as regards your outlook . Add a few dodgy symbols and salutes, philosophers quotes...if your audience is or becomes comfortable with that lot theyll be a lot easier to turn .And theyll bump into plrnty of new freinds at the concerts or bars ...and online..wholl be happy to turn them .

insidious fucks
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I know a LOT of paganists would have very many issues with what you wrote just there. It's not even true about all satanists.
 
bamalama said:
That's way over my head vp ye'll have to explain it to me
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Stewart is well-known for being a contrarian and for his fondness for being at the forefront of new trends, which sometimes makes him come across as a bit of a poseur.
He also likes to suck off goats. :)
 
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