Independence for Wales?

[Tankus]

No ..happy to be Welsh and British

As its topical its come up in quite a few conversations ...

General consensus is that we would be exchanging one bunch of tossers in Westminster for another bunch of tossers in the assembly and wind up paying even more for even less .

Highly unlikely we could afford our current benefit system on our own ...

This thread is going to end in the " how welsh are you" meme
With welsh conversations going on.... in an english spoken forum .

 

[littlebabyjesus]

If you search this forum using my username and the term "West Brit" you'll find loads of Irish republicans flinging that term at me. Because I think the "struggle" was a pointless waste of life carried out by thugs. I'd argue that Ireland hasn't been demonstrably improved by independence and in many ways would have benefited by staying in the Union. The Catholic church's staggering power and it's abuse of said power might not have happened for example. By arguing this position they accuse me of not being Irish but "West British".

In short just because you identify with your neighbour doesn't mean you need to share government.

I'm guessing people like me might be the new West Brits. I've always thought of myself as Welsh and British. Since moving away from Wales, I probably think of myself more as British than anything.

 

[Plumdaff]

Again, it would be viable; but we would in all likelihood be a poorer country than we are now. We're a small economy GDP is lower than the rest of the UK and most of Western Europe and sadly we don't have the strengths of the Scottish economy and aren't a net contributor to the UK as the Scots are.

I'd rather be part of a small poorer nation which shared what it has than a rich nation that doesn't. I think the Welsh economy suffers from being overlooked by Westminster and the London economic behemoth - in a wider UK dominated by finance there isn't much desire centrally to develop the Welsh economy - by contrast, Edinburgh is a centre of finance. For example, I think Wales could make huge strides in renewable technology and clearly has the resources - but there's not much will from a UK Coalition government to make that happen, especially when fracking, something the Welsh population is overwhelmingly against, is flavour of the month. There's also other industries such as film, digital effects etc. I think have real potential. I also know, because I work there, that the Welsh government has some genuinely radical ideas regarding education and health which don't require being richer but do get undermined by a shallow focus on micromanagement and league table politics coming out of England.

 

[editor]

Aren't you in Brixton?

I am indeed, but that doesn't stop me being Welsh and/or fighting for what I feel is the country's best interests.

 

[editor]

I'm guessing people like me might be the new West Brits. I've always thought of myself as Welsh and British. Since moving away from Wales, I probably think of myself more as British than anything.

And that certainly shows in your posts. The longer I've been away, the more I realise that my politics and beliefs are far more aligned with some of the values I feel come from my home country, rather than those of the south of England.

 

[8den]

I am indeed, but that doesn't stop me being Welsh and/or fighting for what I feel is the country's best interests.

probably shouldn't use the word "here" though.

 

[editor]

probably shouldn't use the word "here" though.

I wasn't referring to a physical location.

 

[8den]

I'm guessing people like me might be the new West Brits. I've always thought of myself as Welsh and British. Since moving away from Wales, I probably think of myself more as British than anything.

No I'm not a west brit. Love my country and it's people (most of them and some of the time respectfully).

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I wasn't referring to a physical location.

Wales is a state of mind.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And that certainly shows in your posts. The longer I've been away, the more I realise that my politics and beliefs are far more aligned with some of the values I feel come from my home country, rather than those of the south of England.

These things are not important to me. I think of myself as a Londoner more than anything. I engage primarily with where I am.

 

[8den]

I wasn't referring to a physical location.

I am kidding dude.

 

[ddraig]

These things are not important to me. I think of myself as a Londoner more than anything. I engage primarily with where I am.

and yet here you are putting everyone straight and saying why Wales shouldn't be independent
if it's not important to you why bother?

 

[editor]

These things are not important to me

Then feel free to leave the conversation.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

and yet here you are putting everyone straight and saying why Wales shouldn't be independent
if it's not important to you why bother?

I said that my own personal sense of national identity isn't important to me. I haven't been saying why Wales shouldn't be independent. I've been saying what I don't like about the arguments put forward.

 

[ddraig]

I said that my own personal sense of national identity isn't important to me. I haven't been saying why Wales shouldn't be independent. I've been saying what I don't like about the arguments put forward.

don't be ridiculing people whose sense of national identity is important to them then
we don't owe you an explanation

 

[littlebabyjesus]

don't be ridiculing people whose sense of national identity is important to them then
we don't owe you an explanation

Where have I ridiculed anyone?

 

[Belushi]

I'd rather be part of a small poorer nation which shared what it has than a rich nation that doesn't.

That's fair enough :thumbs :

Win the economic argument and you win independence, no question. I think Scotland will narrowly vote no today but it will be the economic argument that will win it for yes, which really says something about the UK.

 

[8ball]

This thread is going to end in the " how welsh are you" meme

I tend to think of myself as British before Welsh (when I'm feeling willing to shamefacedly admit to involuntary membership of the human race at all), which is something of a minority approach to things.

It's not rational - it's all tied up with where my family are from (all over the place but drawn to a fading empire at the close of the last big War), and maybe a little with my experience of being an outsider. Makes me feel rather ambivalent about the Scottish thing going on right now.

I haven't the foggiest clue about the economics and how Welsh independence would pan out - I do know that opinions seem to follow a left-right divide when I speak to people from home. As far as I am aware the analysis of the economics is a bit sparse.

 

[Lo Siento.]

Given that the UK's current level of economic sovereignty is fairly marginal (to say the least) the idea that Scotland or Wales could bring about substantial economic change as independent nations is a bit weird, IMO.

 

[ddraig]

Where have I ridiculed anyone?

post 43

 

[8ball]

post 43

I don't think that's really specifically ridiculing anyone. Getting a pre-emptive strike in on a couple of strawmen, perhaps...

 

[ddraig]

i feel it is, the start of it and the attitude at least

 

[8den]

All I want is the UK to try and figure out what it's called once Scotland/NI/Wales leave.

 

[ddraig]

englund

 

[William of Walworth]

I'd vote for the maximum increase in Devo that'd be available, not for independence though.

Still why should I have a vote at all anyway? I only moved here at the very end of 2008. Should Welsh born/descended residents in England, Scotland,. elsewhere, also have a vote, if even a Yorkshire-descended, previously long-term London-resident, incomer to Swansea like me gets one?

<wants return of old pink handbag icon >

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Should Welsh born/descended residents in England, Scotland,. elsewhere, also have a vote, >

No. Expats like me should not have any vote on the future of Wales. That should solely be in the hands of those who live there.

 

[William of Walworth]

I was slightly trolling on that one ....

 

[Obnoxiousness]

I'm not Welsh, but most of my family moved there. I stayed in England, but I can see why they went.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-29119302

Probably to get away from me!

 

[butchersapron]

'Record low' back Welsh independence - BBC/ICM poll

Support for Welsh independence has fallen to its lowest recorded level in the wake of the Scottish referendum, according to a poll for BBC Wales.

The survey, carried out days after Scotland voted "No", found 3% wanted to Wales to be independent.

But there was support for the idea of more powers being devolved to the Welsh Assembly, with 49% in favour.
...

The survey found 12% wanted to see the assembly abolished.

The poll also found growing support for UKIP in Wales ahead of next year's general election.

He said most evidence suggests they are taking more support from the Conservatives than anywhere else, which could be of importance in Tory-held marginal seats like the Vale of Glamorgan and Aberconwy

 

[Gavin Bl]

aha, beat me to it.