I Got Banged In The Arse By SW Trains For £32

[2hats]

It was always cheaper for instance to travel from Cardiff to Brighton via Paddington, than it was just to travel to Paddington.

So how does the TOC ensure I get on the LBridge/Victoria-Brighton train having left Paddington station? You're simply helping illustrate how byzantine and ludicrous the train ticketing system has become.

One reason why starting short is not allowed is let's say a train leaves Cardiff at 929, so is not an off peak train, but by the time it arrives in Newport it is an off peak train!

In that case surely one would have bought a peak ticket when an off-peak would have been fine (and thus shot themselves in the foot)? I can't see any reasonable argument against stopping or starting short where it doesn't cross a peak/off-peak time boundary to the advantage of the passenger.

Bungle is getting a lot of stick on here, but he is actually the one who is correct!

I agree. However correct does not equate to sensible or reasonable.

 

[Roadkill]

I have read most of, but not all of the thread. The practice of starting a train journey short, or ending it short has been against the regs for at least 40 and probably much longer. To do so can actually be classed as obtaining goods by deception or fraud so despite some peoples arguments can be illegal!

It was always cheaper for instance to travel from Cardiff to Brighton via Paddington, than it was just to travel to Paddington.

One reason why starting short is not allowed is let's say a train leaves Cardiff at 929, so is not an off peak train, but by the time it arrives in Newport it is an off peak train!

Bungle is getting a lot of stick on here, but he is actually the one who is correct!

That's only the case with some special fares. With normal open tickets you can start or finish short, or break journey at any point, so long as the ticket is valid for the train you actually use. See section 16 of the National Rail Conditions of Carriage (I would quote, but having trouble copy-pasting for some reason).

I think - again - the problem comes down to lack of knowledge. As walk-up tickets have become more expensive people have been pushed more and more on to advance/special fares with restrictive conditions attached. Most of them aren't unreasonable in themselves and many have existed since well before privatisation, but people aren't aware of them and don't appreciate how restrictive they are in some cases, and then get caught out. It doesn't help that the restrictions now vary quite a bit from company to company, especially on peak/off-peak times and so on.

There's no sense in anyone denying that the system is complicated. As I said several pages back, I'm sad enough to know the system well, but even so, it can take a bit of juggling with times, routes and ticket-splits to get a deal I'm happy with. What hope for someone with no interest in the whole business?

 

[maomao]

Are disabled people who use the train between these two stops lazy too?

Certainly not, it would be far more effort to go by tube, especially for someone with mobility problems.

 

[Bungle73]

Yes, because anyone who does that is obviously lazy. And no way could they be a tourist with limited language skills and unfamiliarity with the London transport network.

It's called a map.

Are disabled people who use the train between these two stops lazy too?

Can't tell if you're being serious or not.

The stations are practically within touching distance of each other.

 

[skyscraper101]

It's called a map.


Can't tell if you're being serious or not.

The stations are practically within touching distance of each other.

You're swerving the issue again. Not all maps, certainly not most of the tube maps available will explain something like this. And there will undoubtedly be hundreds of tourists using the tube map to get from A to B without realising you could walk it in minutes. With this in mind, do TFL provide a helpful, reasonably priced fare between the two stations? Thought not.

What about those who physically can't walk the 0.3 miles between the two, should they just suck it up. Because, rules?

And, are you going to apologise yet for quoting me out of context and admit that Britain does in fact have some of the world's highest rail fares? As your DFT apologist 'award winning' seat61.com site suggests?

 

[neonwilderness]

You're swerving the issue again. Not all maps, certainly not most of the tube maps available will explain something like this. And there will undoubtedly be hundreds of tourists using the tube map to get from A to B without realising you could walk it in minutes. With this in mind, do TFL provide a helpful, reasonably priced fare between the two stations? Thought not.

On the tube map Embankment to Charing Cross looks to be about the same distance as Embankment to Waterloo despite the latter being about twice as far. That's not something I would have known without checking tbh.

 

[fractionMan]

Most people that visit london have no idea that the tube map is not to scale.

 

[MrSki]

Most people that visit london have no idea that the tube map is not to scale.

Yes you often see people getting the tube from Leicester Square to Covent Garden. I think it is quicker to walk above ground the descend to the deep level stations.

 

[Bungle73]

You're swerving the issue again. Not all maps, certainly not most of the tube maps available will explain something like this. And there will undoubtedly be hundreds of tourists using the tube map to get from A to B without realising you could walk it in minutes. With this in mind, do TFL provide a helpful, reasonably priced fare between the two stations? Thought not.

I'm not "swerving the issue". You're just being silly.

What about those who physically can't walk the 0.3 miles between the two, should they just suck it up. Because, rules?

So "those who physically can't walk" can't walk a minute down the road, but they can spend 15 minutes descending into a Tube station, waiting for a train, riding a train for 20 seconds, then ascending to the surface at another Tube station. Right.........

 

[Bungle73]

And "tourists" would have a Travelcard or Oyster anyway........

 

[neonwilderness]

Most people that visit london have no idea that the tube map is not to scale.

Yeah, the only shortcuts I know are the ones I do semi-regularly (i.e. KX - Euston). I wouldn't have had a clue about Embankment - CX.

 

[skyscraper101]

I'm not "swerving the issue". You're just being silly.

You are swerving the issue because you still can't bring yourself even mention that you are wrong regarding national fares question, and you can't demonstrate that TFL have done anything significant to assist tourists with a widely available tube which indicates quicker walking times between those two stations.

So "those who physically can't walk" can't walk a minute down the road, but they can spend 15 minutes descending into a Tube station, waiting for a train, riding a train for 20 seconds, then ascending to the surface at another Tube station. Right.........

I'd be amazed at anyone with walking difficulties taking a just minute to travel the distance between the two considering that could be upto almost 1/3 of a mile with no handrail, shelter, or equivalent light cover at night. So yes, it may well be easier due to the fact they would get all that, plus adequate assistance from TFL staff as they are mandated to under their own assistance policy for disabled customers.

 

[1927]

Are you actually saying getting on the train at Newport during an off peak time on a journey East from Cardiff should be more expensive than getting on a peak time train at Cardiff? Even if you've paid from Cardiff anyway?

No the point I'm making is the same train can be off peak from Newport but peak from Cardiff.

 

[skyscraper101]

And "tourists" would have a Travelcard or Oyster anyway........

Really? All tourists use the same travel fare method all the time? That's very insightful. It still doesn't address the fact that TFL do virtually nothing to point out that there is a quicker walking route between the two stations, if they are able to walk. In fact it's left to alternative map creators to develop ones like this. Of course, most tourists probably wouldn't be aware of them. And so TFL continue to fail to address the fact they're operating one of the world's most expensive, if not the world's most expensive, per-mile train journeys.

 

[Bungle73]

You are swerving the issue because you still can't bring yourself even mention that you are wrong regarding national fares question, and you can't demonstrate that TFL have done anything significant to assist tourists with a widely available tube which indicates quicker walking times between those two stations.



I'd be amazed at anyone with walking difficulties taking a just minute to travel the distance between the two considering that could be upto almost 1/3 of a mile with no handrail, shelter, or equivalent light cover at night. So yes, it may well be easier due to the fact they would get all that, plus adequate assistance from TFL staff as they are mandated to under their own assistance policy for disabled customers.

Sorry, I just can't take you seriously any more. LOL!

 

[existentialist]

And "tourists" would have a Travelcard or Oyster anyway........

"would have"

Always your rejoinder. This idealistic world where everyone knows exactly what they need to do and have, and where the idealistic dictums of apparatchiks and management somehow miraculously translate into common knowledge.

Thank fuck you're a nomark, that's all I can say.

 

[skyscraper101]

Sorry, I just can't take you seriously any more. LOL!

Well there you have it then. Fail to address any relevant point I've made and just riposte with laughing it off.

You're totally fucking owned. Go play with your revenue protection officer costume.

 

[existentialist]

Well there you have it then. Fail to address any relevant point I've made and just riposte with laughing it off.

You're totally fucking owned. Go play with your revenue protection officer costume.

It's a hat. A very special hat.


I am hoping and trusting that he has the one with the special jism-proof coating. That stuff can fly a remarkable distance in the right circumstances...

 

[Bungle73]

Well there you have it then. Fail to address any relevant point I've made and just repost with laughing it off.

You're totally fucking owned. Go play with your revenue protection officer costume.

You haven't made any "relevant" points, just come up with a lot of bullshit about people who "can't walk" a few hundred yards (3rd of a mile, LOL!), yet can somehow get themselves down into a deep level Tube station, travel to the next station and get themselves back up again, which is going in involve a ton more walking anyway.

"would have"

Always your rejoinder. This idealistic world where everyone knows exactly what they need to do and have, and where the idealistic dictums of apparatchiks and management somehow miraculously translate into common knowledge.

Thank fuck you're a nomark, that's all I can say.

This is more bullshit. Sure a tourist is going to stay in London and not buy a pass. Sure they're going to pay the cash fare for every single Tube journey they do. Of course they are.

Tfl don't "address" it because it doesn't need to be addressed, and only a couple of wallys...or trolls....think it's something to be concerned about.

 

[skyscraper101]

You haven't made any "relevant" points, just come up with a lot of bullshit about people who "can't walk" a few hundred yards (3rd of a mile, LOL!), yet can somehow get themselves down into a deep level Tube station, travel to the next station and get themselves back up again, which is going in involve a ton more walking anyway.

Right, so now disabled access between TFL stations is bullshit? LOL you really are deluded.

And yes they would be able to get into a deep level tube station easier, because..lighting, shelter, handrails, and assistance from TFL staff - all of which I pointed out already, should be readily available. Unlike traversing the streets above.

And if you actually read what I said, I said the journey could be almost 1/3 of a mile. Yes? And if you don't believe me, check the walking distance on Google Maps which clearly states 0.3 Miles between Charing Cross and Embankment.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Cha...a8dcc48e8b92748!2m2!1d-0.12264!2d51.50706!3e2

Twat off.

 

[Bungle73]

Right, so now disabled access between TFL stations is bullshit? LOL you really are deluded.

And yes they would be able to get into a deep level tube station easier, because..lighting, shelter, handrails, and assistance from TFL staff - all of which I pointed out already, should be readily available. Unlike traversing the streets above.

And if you actually read what I said, I said the journey could be almost 1/3 of a mile. Yes? And if you don't believe me, check the walking distance on Google Maps which clearly states 0.3 Miles between Charing Cross and Embankment.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Charing Cross, United Kingdom/Embankment/@51.5075768,-0.126784,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m14!4m13!1m5!1m1!1s0x487604ce4ea24bf3:0x52ca03537553ce19!2m2!1d-0.12725!2d51.50741!1m5!1m1!1s0x487604c9281fe069:0xca8dcc48e8b92748!2m2!1d-0.12264!2d51.50706!3e2

Twat off.

Have you actually walked between Charing Cross and Embankment? You haven't have you? Go and do it tomorrow, then you might realise what a silly billy you are being

Walkit.com says it is 0.2 miles, that's 352 yards. A 3rd of a mile is 587 yards.......

 

[neonwilderness]

Maybe tourists should be required to pass "The Knowledge" before they are allowed to buy a travel card

 

[skyscraper101]

Have you actually walked between Charing Cross and Embankment? You haven't have you? Go and do it tomorrow, then you might realise what a silly billy you are being

Walkit.com says it is 0.2 miles, that's 352 yards. A 3rd of a mile is 587 yards.......

Thats funny, cos I checked Walkit.com and it says 0.3 Miles too

http://walkit.com/walk/?city=london&from=Embankment Underground Station&fuid=390884_428168&to=Charing Cross Railway Station&tuid=449450_482801&rta=old#nogo

And yes I've walked many times between the stations. But I'm neither a tourist or a disabled person.

 

[fractionMan]

And "tourists" would have a Travelcard or Oyster anyway........

lol

 

[toggle]

You haven't made any "relevant" points, just come up with a lot of bullshit about people who "can't walk" a few hundred yards (3rd of a mile, LOL!), yet can somehow get themselves down into a deep level Tube station, travel to the next station and get themselves back up again, which is going in involve a ton more walking anyway.

OMFG, them disableds, having problems that don't always make complete sence to ignorant pricks. makes them fucking hilarious, dosen't it.

you really are showing yourself up as a prize fucking cunt with this one.

 

[twentythreedom]

It was always cheaper for instance to travel from Cardiff to Brighton via Paddington, than it was just to travel to Paddington.

Wtf. So, a single train ticket Cardiff - Paddington - tube to Victoria - Brighton is cheaper than Cardiff - Padd? Even though you have to travel on the tube between termini, use a different company's train etc? If you don't do that, it surely couldn't be compulsory to do that journey on pain of a fine? That's beyond insanity if so.

 

[Bungle73]

OMFG, them disableds, having problems that don't always make complete sence to ignorant pricks. makes them fucking hilarious, dosen't it.

you really are showing yourself up as a prize fucking cunt with this one.

The one being a cunt here is you because this argument is absolutely ridiculous. In fact it is so ridiculous I find it hard to believe I'm not being trolled here.

Thats funny, cos I checked Walkit.com and it says 0.3 Miles too

It says 0.2 for me. But either way it's not a long way

And yes I've walked many times between the stations.

Then why are you coming out with load of cobblers?

 

[MAD-T-REX]

Wtf. So, a single train ticket Cardiff - Paddington - tube to Victoria - Brighton is cheaper than Cardiff - Padd? Even though you have to travel on the tube between termini, use a different company's train etc? If you don't do that, it surely couldn't be compulsory to do that journey on pain of a fine? That's beyond insanity if so.

There's a lot of stupid shit like that in the pricing structure. Herne Hill to Gatwick is £15 for a single ticket, but it's a tenner if you buy two separate tickets for the same route (HH to East Croydon via Blackfriars and Croydon to Gatwick).

 

[existentialist]

The one being a cunt here is you because this argument is absolutely ridiculous. In fact it is so ridiculous I find it hard to believe I'm not being trolled here.

I don't think you are, but it's bloody tempting, given how entertainingly you boil over at the slightest hint of contradiction

Then why are you coming out with load of cobblers?

Oh god, don't bring him into it - he'd as soon have the railway grubbed up and a six lane motorway put in between Charing Cross and Embankment instead.

 

[skyscraper101]

why are you coming out with load of cobblers?

It's facts. I've provided numerous links to back up everything I've said and you have no answer to it. You, on the other hand just make sweeping assumptions about 'all tourists having a travel card' and that walking 0.3 miles - as verified by google maps and walkit.com - might be less preferable than using the assistance on hand by TFL staff and the extra support offered by taking the tube.

Your failure to comprehend why anyone would do this, or why a tourist may also unwittingly do this further demonstrates your ineptitude to look at life from any other perspective than your own fantasy revenue collection officer world.