I Got Banged In The Arse By SW Trains For £32

[SpookyFrank]

You are all so obsessed with how "bad" you think privatisation is you're desperate to put the boot into the railways when ever possible. I see it all the time, any thread that comes on here about the railways, what ever the subject, someone always starts banging on about "privatisation". It's pathetic.

You don't have to put privatisation in quote marks, it's a real thing that definitely happened not some conspiracy theory. In real terms we now pay vastly more for the railways in both ticket prices in state subsidies than we did before "privatiastion" and, at the same time, the companies running the trains have been making large profits. Coincidence?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Last week i had to travel home from a days work at Overton (one stop past basingstoke) into Waterloo.../snip

You actually tried to get a ticket? After they'd let you through the barriers at Waterloo? If they can't get their act together to provide working facillities for people to buy tickets then that's their own stupid fault if they don't get paid.

I suppose the train companies thought, why are we paying people to sit in ticket offices all day? Surely they serve no purpose and can be got rid of, saving us the price of maybe half a train ticket per hour per station. Chickens home to roost and all that.

 

[neonwilderness]

You don't have to put privatisation in quote marks, it's a real thing that definitely happened not some conspiracy theory. In real terms we now pay vastly more for the railways in both ticket prices in state subsidies than we did before "privatiastion" and, at the same time, the companies running the trains have been making large profits. Coincidence?

The real villains are the rolling stock leasing companies who allegedly make a tidy profit just from owning the trains and leasing them out to the operators. I guess they are the railway equivalent of landlords

http://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2011/jan/08/rail-fare-rises

 

[telbert]

You actually tried to get a ticket? After they'd let you through the barriers at Waterloo? If they can't get their act together to provide working facillities for people to buy tickets then that's their own stupid fault if they don't get paid.

I suppose the train companies thought, why are we paying people to sit in ticket offices all day? Surely they serve no purpose and can be got rid of, saving us the price of maybe half a train ticket per hour per station. Chickens home to roost and all that.

Yeah well i must have had a sudden attack of morals/conscience/youv'e used the service so fair do's,pay for it sort of thing.But you're right,Fuck 'em.It wont happen again.

 

[skyscraper101]

You know it would help if all your perspectives weren't clouded by a political opinion that borders on the obsessive. How about some facts: the fares go up because the government wants them to go up. The profit on a rail ticket is a pittance. The "world's most expensive train fares"? Um, not really..........

Conclusion..

So the next time someone says (or you read) "Britain has the highest rail fares in Europe", you'll know this is only 15% of the story. The other 85% is that we have similar or even cheaper fares, too. The big picture is that Britain has the most commercially aggressive fares in Europe, with the highest fares designed to get maximum revenue from business travel, and some of the lowest fares designed to get more revenue by filling more seats. This is exactly what airlines have known, and been doing, for decades. But don't take my word for it, see for yourself, check some UK train fares at www.nationalrail.co.uk...

http://www.seat61.com/uk-europe-train-fares-comparison.html#.U9_6dGOTIgI

Nice try trying to quote me out of context. And your selective quoting of seat61.com only proves my point you're attempting to dispute. Firstly, I said "some of the world's most expensive fares" - I didn't say "The world's most expensive fares" as you imply (although I could even dispute that point)

To quote the same article, Britain has the "most expensive" fares for an approximated (i.e. totally pulled out of the air and probably under-estimated by seat365.com) 15% of its traveller base - i.e. those that need to travel at peak hours. And by quite some margin:

London to Sheffield £104
Paris to Dijon £41
Rome to Florence £36
Nuremburg to Kassel £61

He even says says himself:

the UK is indisputably the most expensive

And outside the peaks...? According to Seat61.com again:

London to Sheffield £69.50
Paris to Dijon £41
Rome to Florence £36 on all departures
Nuremburg to Kassel £61 on all departures

So, nothing so far from that piece to suggest that the UK doesn't have some of the most expensive fares in Europe (if not the world). I also note from that page that there are two other 'tests' he ran which pitted the advance purchase UK fare up against those other equivalents but conveniently skirted around the price point of any travel time in peak hours in order to spin the story that the UK can offer cheaper tickets that its Euro equivalents. I wonder if he'd factored in peak times across the board would've been more expensive yet again. Hmm...

Also, who runs seat61.com? Surely not anyone with a vested interest in justifying such abominable price hikes like say, the person who formerly set the fares at the Department of Transport? Oh wait...

Don't be misled by the headlines though, says Mark Smith, who used to set fares at the Department of Transport and now runs the website The Man in Seat 61

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16390608

Genius.

In fact, according this this graun article - Britain does have the most expensive fare in Europe for an intercity journey:

Travelling on a £109.50 standard single ticket, Virgin's London to Manchester service works out at an outrageous 55p per mile, making it Europe's most expensive intercity journey

As that was over 7 years ago. I can only assume those fares have gone up - a lot. That same BBC article from 2 years ago suggests it went up to 80p in 2012 - which is an over 45% increase - totally fair and in line with inflation and average wage increases, not. And just to be really anal, let's go worldwide and include all public transport trains, and guess what, according to that same graun article, the accolade for the world's most expensive train journey goes to "Charing Cross to Embankment on the Northern line, which works out at around £64.50 per mile" and that was based on the £4 cash fare at the time. If you account for the 70p increase since then, you'd be adding another 17.5% to that which would make it £75.78 per mile.

So, um.. do one ya knobhead.

 

[friedaweed]

snip

So, um.. do one ya knobhead.

I think everyone should use this phrase at least once a day. The world would be a much nicer place

 

[twentythreedom]

Bungle is a tedious cock. Simples.

 

[MrSki]

For anyone feeling a bit down in the dumps. I have just watched this again and can't stop laughing.

Bungle dressed as batman.

Seriously fucking funny. Enough to make you choke on your cornflakes.

 

[MrSki]

I can''t help thinking of Bungle as in the clip above. It is therefore hard to take him too seriously.

There are also more jokes in ten minutes than the whole of the new jokes thread.

 

[existentialist]

Last week i had to travel home from a days work at Overton (one stop past basingstoke) into Waterloo.The ticket office was closed when i got to the station at about 1:30 pm,the ticket machine wouldnt accept payment for the ticket (£25:60) from my debit card or the £50 note i had. There was no permit to travel machine and the advice i got from the intercom on the help point was "yeah just get a permit to travel from the machine"after telling him twice there wasnt a fucking machine.The ticket inspecter/guard on the train had only £10 in change for the day so couldnt give me a ticket but he advised me to go straight to the barrier at Waterloo and i'll be able to get a ticket there without incuring the £20 fine.At the barrier i explained the whole series of failures to another guard who looked about twelve and she said "we're short staffed and aint got no one to issue you with a ticket here,i'll let you through the barriers so you can walk all the way to the ticket office at the other end of the concourse and get a ticket there."Tried this and they told me i could only buy a ticket there for a future journey,not one i'd already made and i should have got one at the barrier.I went home and spent £25 on cider and chinese food.Fuck South West Trains right into next fucking Tuesday.

You sound displeased about this in some way?

Hang around, though - I expect bungle will be along to call you a thief, and tell you exactly how you should have forced SWT to accept your money...

 

[Bungle73]

Nice try trying to quote me out of context. And your selective quoting of seat61.com only proves my point you're attempting to dispute. Firstly, I said "some of the world's most expensive fares" - I didn't say "The world's most expensive fares" as you imply (although I could even dispute that point)

To quote the same article, Britain has the "most expensive" fares for an approximated (i.e. totally pulled out of the air and probably under-estimated by seat365.com) 15% of its traveller base - i.e. those that need to travel at peak hours. And by quite some margin:

He even says says himself:


And outside the peaks...? According to Seat61.com again:


So, nothing so far from that piece to suggest that the UK doesn't have some of the most expensive fares in Europe (if not the world). I also note from that page that there are two other 'tests' he ran which pitted the advance purchase UK fare up against those other equivalents but conveniently skirted around the price point of any travel time in peak hours in order to spin the story that the UK can offer cheaper tickets that its Euro equivalents. I wonder if he'd factored in peak times across the board would've been more expensive yet again. Hmm...

Also, who runs seat61.com? Surely not anyone with a vested interest in justifying such abominable price hikes like say, the person who formerly set the fares at the Department of Transport? Oh wait...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-16390608

Genius.

In fact, according this this graun article - Britain does have the most expensive fare in Europe for an intercity journey:


As that was over 7 years ago. I can only assume those fares have gone up - a lot. That same BBC article from 2 years ago suggests it went up to 80p in 2012 - which is an over 45% increase - totally fair and in line with inflation and average wage increases, not. And just to be really anal, let's go worldwide and include all public transport trains, and guess what, according to that same graun article, the accolade for the world's most expensive train journey goes to "Charing Cross to Embankment on the Northern line, which works out at around £64.50 per mile" and that was based on the £4 cash fare at the time. If you account for the 70p increase since then, you'd be adding another 17.5% to that which would make it £75.78 per mile.

So, um.. do one ya knobhead.

How typical to rubbish the TMIS61 website, when in fact it is a well respected purveyor of train travel information, and has won a number of awards.

Oh, and you must be desperate if you're bringing Charing Cross to Embankment into it A journey no one in their right mind would ever make. And completely irrelevant as far as this argument goes.

 

[5t3IIa]

Oh, and you must be desperate if you're bringing Charing Cross to Embankment into it A journey no one in their right mind would ever make. And completely irrelevant as far as this argument goes.

The Northern line isn't stopping at Embankment until November 2014 due to escalator improvement works.

 

[Bungle73]

The Northern line isn't stopping at Embankment until November 2014 due to escalator improvement works.

And......?

 

[neonwilderness]

the accolade for the world's most expensive train journey goes to "Charing Cross to Embankment on the Northern line, which works out at around £64.50 per mile" and that was based on the £4 cash fare at the time. If you account for the 70p increase since then, you'd be adding another 17.5% to that which would make it £75.78 per mile.

At least there's no intermediate stations though, so there's no risk of being charged for getting off too early

 

[xenon]

I liked the bit where Bungle explains buying an off peak ticket is simple... Followed by a series of confusing and teadious caviets.

It's all bollocks.

 

[Bungle73]

I liked the bit where Bungle explains buying an off peak ticket is simple... Followed by a series of confusing and teadious caviets.

It's all bollocks.

So "Off Peak" should be the same time for everyone? Then I wouldn't be able to get into central London until nearly 11am. How is that fair?

You people claim making things "simple" would be better, when in fact it would make things worse.

Most of this stuff shouldn't be too hard to work out.....if you have a brain, and know what your requirements are.

 

[xenon]

No, not that bit. The other stuff about some TOs not using the same times, return journeys etc.

 

[neonwilderness]

No, not that bit. The other stuff about some TOs not using the same times, return journeys etc.

If you spent a few hours studying the rules you'd see that it is really simple

 

[existentialist]

How typical to rubbish the TMIS61 website, when in fact it is a well respected purveyor of train travel information, and has won a number of awards.

Oh, and you must be desperate if you're bringing Charing Cross to Embankment into it A journey no one in their right mind would ever make. And completely irrelevant as far as this argument goes.

I agree. But its irrelevance is trumped by the way in which you have (predictably) gone off on one in your trademark inflexible manner, thereby further undermining what tattered shreds of credibility you might have still had remaining in regard to your ability to take a balanced and realistic position on ANYTHING. Well done

 

[existentialist]

If you spent a few hours studying the rules you'd see that it is really simple

It's even simplers (© bungle) if you spend a few DAYS studying them.

 

[existentialist]

When I was a kid, I used to save up and buy a copy of the National Timetable every year (I actually used to ask for it for Christmas every year, but no bastard ever got it for me, presumably on the basis that nobody in their right mind would ask for such a thing and mean it. Or maybe it was just too expensive). I used to have DAYS of fun with that thing, figuring out all kinds of things. Suffice it to say that Byzantine complexity was very much my home turf. But the point of it all was that, somewhere in the midst of that complexity, there was order. I couldn't always work out WHY the 0532 departure from Alloa was 10 minutes later on summer Sundays, but there would be some kind of sense to it.

But I fail to be convinced by Bungle73's blustering that there is any practical sense to the strange anomalies he so uncritically defends. I'd love to believe there is some kind of order to them, and I can even hypothesise a few ideas as to why it might be, but whatever Bungle is blathering about on here, it has nothing to do with either sense or order.

 

[skyscraper101]

How typical to rubbish the TMIS61 website, when in fact it is a well respected purveyor of train travel information, and has won a number of awards.

LOL. The fact it's run by the guy who used to set fares for the Department for Transport doesn't strike you a a little suss when it comes to articles about how the UK has it great regarding rail fares?

Why don't you actually address the point I made? I said that the UK has some of the worlds highest fares. You quoted me out of context and said "Um, not really.........." using that Seat61.com article as proof, and I highlighted from that very article not only how flawed it is, but where even it concedes that the UK has some of "the most expensive" fares. On top of that I've provided two separate articles which actually substantiate it. Are you going to apologise now?

And as for rubbishing TMIS61, I will as well fucking rubbish it because those fare 'tests' are not comparing like with like. It's as ambiguous as the ticket prices which the site owner himself was responsible for at the DFT. And in typical government fashion, he's using selective data to spin a line that the UK is mostly cheaper than its European counterparts and pulling figures out of the air to back it up. And I've called it out. With quotes.

Awards my arse.

 

[1927]

I have read most of, but not all of the thread. The practice of starting a train journey short, or ending it short has been against the regs for at least 40 and probably much longer. To do so can actually be classed as obtaining goods by deception or fraud so despite some peoples arguments can be illegal!

It was always cheaper for instance to travel from Cardiff to Brighton via Paddington, than it was just to travel to Paddington.

One reason why starting short is not allowed is let's say a train leaves Cardiff at 929, so is not an off peak train, but by the time it arrives in Newport it is an off peak train!

Bungle is getting a lot of stick on here, but he is actually the one who is correct!

 

[1927]

At least there's no intermediate stations though, so there's no risk of being charged for getting off too early

Anyone who is laziness enough to get a train from Charing Cross to Embankment deserves having the piss taken out of them!

 

[skyscraper101]

Anyone who is laziness enough to get a train from Charing Cross to Embankment deserves having the piss taken out of them!

Yes, because anyone who does that is obviously lazy. And no way could they be a tourist with limited language skills and unfamiliarity with the London transport network.

Are disabled people who use the train between these two stops lazy too?

 

[existentialist]

I have read m
Bungle is getting a lot of stick on here, but he is actually the one who is correct!

TBF, a lot of the stick that Bungle is taking has less to do with the factual nature of his argument than his comical degree of combativeness.

 

[Fez909]

One reason why starting short is not allowed is let's say a train leaves Cardiff at 929, so is not an off peak train, but by the time it arrives in Newport it is an off peak train

In this case an off-peak ticket should be provided.

 

[twentythreedom]

I have read most of, but not all of the thread. The practice of starting a train journey short, or ending it short has been against the regs for at least 40 and probably much longer. To do so can actually be classed as obtaining goods by deception or fraud so despite some peoples arguments can be illegal!

It was always cheaper for instance to travel from Cardiff to Brighton via Paddington, than it was just to travel to Paddington.

One reason why starting short is not allowed is let's say a train leaves Cardiff at 929, so is not an off peak train, but by the time it arrives in Newport it is an off peak train!

Bungle is getting a lot of stick on here, but he is actually the one who is correct!

Don't you fucking start

 

[2hats]

You know it would help if all your perspectives weren't clouded by a political opinion that borders on the obsessive.

I suspect that they are clouded, like mine, from experience - trying to find reasonably priced tickets at almost-convenient/not-so-convenient (as oppose to totally inconvenient) times of the day/days to travel.

 

[skyscraper101]

One reason why starting short is not allowed is let's say a train leaves Cardiff at 929, so is not an off peak train, but by the time it arrives in Newport it is an off peak train!

Are you actually saying getting on the train at Newport during an off peak time on a journey East from Cardiff should be more expensive than getting on a peak time train at Cardiff? Even if you've paid from Cardiff anyway?