Hundreds of women assaulted in German NYE celebrations

[Pickman's model]

The kenyan rape "investigation" was a farce following a agent going round an african country claiming the British would give you money Suprisingly vast amounts of evidence was made up if their was any evidence it was throughly crayoned over
the same firm that bungled "the battle of danny boy" enquiry by acts of criminal fraud and is still trying to take cases to court

like saddam hussein you're indefatigable

 

[Idris2002]

like saddam hussein you're indefatigable

Surely more like "congenital"?

 

[ViolentPanda]

This is what I'd understood - that the Saudis have been distributing money through mosques to people in many arab countries where there's poverty but no help from the local government.

The resulting gratitude makes people open to the package of extremist Islam which comes with it. As it would, and so one of 'our' major allies has been funding extremism using our own money.

How much of a factor is this?

You're proposing cause ("distributing money through mosques") and effect (radicalisation). What should be acknowledged is that "resulting gratitude" plays a very small part in that cause and effect in some cases. What plays a greater part is that the structure of Islamic education in many poor Muslim states has been subverted by Islamism. Hegemony in education, and the accompanying control of discourse, plays a much stronger role than gratitude.
Some of the peoples (in particular in Central Asia's states and the surrounding ones) reject the Wahhabite imposition -they're mostly Sufi - and do so openly. Unfortunately this has historically led to the arrival of Jihadis, ready to destroy Sufi shrines and murder members of the various Sufi sects. (read Ahmed Rashid's "Jihad: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia" for a wider look at this phenomenon).

 

[ViolentPanda]

Wow!

It's Schauble, for fuck's sake. He's a right-wing dullard hangover from Kohl's era. He vomits out this sort of shit as a matter of course.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Pebbles, not gravel. A nasty attack for sure, but hardly the 'stoning' the JP and Bild Zeitung are making it out to be.

Good old JP, who rarely report incidents of "stoning" by ultra-Orthodox Jews in the state of Israel for much more minor crimes, such as operating machinery during shabat.

 

[DotCommunist]

I just want to quote this again.

an imagined hierarchy of oppressions that bears little relevance to how most people view things. Most people don't do top trumps in this regard. The reason your useful to the right is that you'll sit all day long repeating what they have said about a lefts reaction to the events. In the meantime people are trying to live while casually fash bashes one out over the rivers of blood. I told you so liberals! he crows. And you lap it up

 

[ViolentPanda]

I have never met anyone, regardless of political affiliation, that has said that minorities raping anyone or anyone raping anyone is okay. What I have met is people on the organised left who absolutely refuse to discuss the issue and call anyone who does want to discuss it racist. I'm not accusing anyone of that here but it has undoubtedly gone on surrounding Cologne, particularly while the story was being mostly successfully suppressed by the media and police.

I have mentioned Rotherham upthread a few times and the fact that meetings were being held by 'Hope not Hate', the SWP, 'community leaders' and Labour lashup about 'Racist grooming myths' well after most people knew that systematic rape of kids in Rotherham was taking place.

What truly pisses me off about any such debates is the insistence by some participants that it's necessary to take sides before all the facts are in. That goes as much for right-inflected views as for left-inflected views.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I appreciate that you are not denying what I am saying, but I think it's worth emphasising the fact that I'm not talking about individuals calling me racist for talking about this, what I'm talking about is multiple organisational structures holding (albeit extremely poorly attended) meetings to disseminate a party line that systematic rape of children was not taking place and that anyone who said it was was perpetuating a racist myth.

Frankly, that tells us more about organisational structures and dynamics - especially the drive to self-preservation and perpetuation of the organisation - than it does about the politics of the matter. Very few organisations and institutions don't end up taking the path of least resistance.

 

[Anudder Oik]

an imagined hierarchy of oppressions that bears little relevance to how most people view things. Most people don't do top trumps in this regard. The reason your useful to the right is that you'll sit all day long repeating what they have said about a lefts reaction to the events. In the meantime people are trying to live while casually fash bashes one out over the rivers of blood. I told you so liberals! he crows. And you lap it up

It's not imagined. It goes hand in hand with the distorted world view of identity politics which has gradually caused a divorce between the working classes and left wing politics.
One example of this is how the socialist workers newspaper highlights attacks on 11 innocent immigrants in the aftermath of the NYE attacks yet fails to demand justice for the 500 or 600 women who were also attacked.

It's not imaginary, it dominates left thinking. I've seen it. I was a member.

 

[DotCommunist]

It's not imagined. It goes hand in hand with the distorted world view of identity politics which has gradually caused a divorce between the working classes and left wing politics.
One example of this is how the socialist workers newspaper highlights attacks on 11 innocent immigrants in the aftermath of the NYE attacks yet fails to demand justice for the 500 or 600 women who were also attacked.

It's not imaginary, it dominates left thinking. I've seen it. I was a member.

yeah, being an ex swappie doesn't really give you an idea about 'the left' or any indication of what monothought 'left' you seem to think exists. I'll give you a hint though, plenty of people of left wing views aren't ex trots like yourself. I can see now why you rail at groupsucles getting coverage for daft attitudes. You're a mug.

 

[DotCommunist]

'I was a swappie so I know the left and how it works'

lol

 

[Anudder Oik]

So, which left leaning parties are demanding justice for the victims instead of

A. Completely avoiding the issue
B. Obsessing about the right

Edit: Actually, come to think about it both options A and B are tantamount to the same thing.

Which left parties have reacted with a practical campaign which will restore women's confidence so they can continue with their lives as before?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Are those the only two options available in your mind?

 

[Anudder Oik]

Are those the only two options available in your mind?

Answer my post and add some more options by all means.

 

[bimble]

The reason your useful to the right is that you'll sit all day long repeating what they have said about a lefts reaction to the events. In the meantime people are trying to live while casually fash bashes one out over the rivers of blood. I told you so liberals! he crows. And you lap it up

I'm 'useful to the right' and I'm lapping up CR's anti-immigration rants? Was not aware of either, at all.
What I have tried to do, which I've not noticed anyone else on this thread attempting so far, is to put forward my own tentative suggestion of something that i think might possibly help. The attacks on NYE in Cologne and the other one reported this week, the girl in Paris, as well as Tahrir Square which I did not know about before, they scare the shit out of me. I'd never heard of mass sexual assaults in public in crowded public places before. I don't really get why the key thing here seems to be to argue the toss about 'the left's reaction' rather than talking about the thing itself.

 

[DotCommunist]

So, which left leaning parties are demanding justice for the victims instead of

A. Completely avoiding the issue
B. Obsessing about the right

again with the binaries. DO YOU CONDEMN THE VIOLENCE!? etc
feeble. You'll repeat this line till it becomes true in your head though, some dafto trots and that yeah they represent everyone left of cameron right. No.

 

[DotCommunist]

Was not aware of either, at all.

yeah thats rather the point

 

[DotCommunist]

rather than talking about the thing itself.

lots of that been happening as well. The hows, the whys, the nature of the attackers, what security could have done etc. All been well covered. not to anyones satisfaction mind, but we can all agree that the cunts want a slap and a conviction

 

[Pickman's model]

It's not imagined. It goes hand in hand with the distorted world view of identity politics which has gradually caused a divorce between the working classes and left wing politics.
One example of this is how the socialist workers newspaper highlights attacks on 11 innocent immigrants in the aftermath of the NYE attacks yet fails to demand justice for the 500 or 600 women who were also attacked.

It's not imaginary, it dominates left thinking. I've seen it. I was a member.

so for left read trot

 

[DotCommunist]

So, which left leaning parties are demanding justice for the victims instead of

A. Completely avoiding the issue
B. Obsessing about the right

Edit: Actually, come to think about it both options A and B are tantamount to the same thing.

Which left parties have reacted with a practical campaign which will restore women's confidence so they can continue with their lives as before?

which left parties do you think should be forming civil defense squads and escorting those women to and from venues? I bet my old dear could knock you over.

 

[Anudder Oik]

so for left read trot

In my post I wrote "One example of this is..."

As for Dotcommunist confusing the word "campaign" for "civil defence squads", what else is there to expect from someone who equates the broader publics outrage with a right wing agenda? You need to get a grip.

 

[bimble]

which left parties do you think should be forming civil defense squads and escorting those women to and from venues? I bet my old dear could knock you over.

You're missing the point in such a macho way it's almost funny.

 

[DotCommunist]

You're missing the point in such a macho way it's almost funny.

do they teach humour at goldsmiths? perhaps they do and its just slapstick

 

[DotCommunist]

someone who equates the broader publics outrage with a right wing agenda?

keep repeating the lie oik, it'll beome true eventually. It seems the swappies trained you well there

 

[Pickman's model]

In my post I wrote "One example of this is..."

As for Dotcommunist confusing the word "campaign" for "civil defence squads", what else is there to expect from someone who equates the broader publics outrage with a right wing agenda? You need to get a grip.

i read your post.

 

[Casually Red]

repeatedly. And smeared half the thread as apologists for the events. Of trying to sweep it away. All so he can stand on his soap box proclaiming about liberals, and the left. Him and dimble have been a disgrace with that smearing.

Omg..you're actually outraged about people being smeared on here ?

Fucking wow like

 

[Casually Red]

What truly pisses me off about any such debates is the insistence by some participants that it's necessary to take sides before all the facts are in. That goes as much for right-inflected views as for left-inflected views.

The only sides on this issue are the rapists and their victims . Your neutrality is duly noted .

 

[Casually Red]

I'm 'useful to the right' and I'm lapping up CR's anti-immigration rants? Was not aware of either, at all.
What I have tried to do, which I've not noticed anyone else on this thread attempting so far, is to put forward my own tentative suggestion of something that i think might possibly help. The attacks on NYE in Cologne and the other one reported this week, the girl in Paris, as well as Tahrir Square which I did not know about before, they scare the shit out of me. I'd never heard of mass sexual assaults in public in crowded public places before. I don't really get why the key thing here seems to be to argue the toss about 'the left's reaction' rather than talking about the thing itself.

You're as " useful to the right " as these rape victims are . It's this fucked up logic ...itself a very snide form of smear, from someone who specialises in snide smears ...that results in a rape victim being denounced as a " nazi whore " in a viral video by pro open borders loons .

Basically he's having a go at you for liking my posts . Most likely after a furious pm circle jerk with the rest of the " cool kids " . This is what they do . And you're not the first either .

 

[Casually Red]

which left parties do you think should be forming civil defense squads and escorting those women to and from venues? I bet my old dear could knock you over.

Antifa should . Those on the left with a track record of physical confrontation against violent reactionaries . If this was westerners doing it to women in this mass hooligan fashion there'd be absolutely no hesitation or debate on the need for it .

 

[Casually Red]

If you find left wing calls for nuance and a measured response so triggering I have no idea what you are doing on a left wing forum but I am glad you are here to share your opinion as if it was fact.

Explain to me the "nuance " regarding mass sexual sexual assault and rape right across germany and Europe ? Explain to me your " measured response " to mass sexual assaults right in front of the cops ?

Apparently it doesn't even involve deportation . It involves continuing blindly with an open borders policy ..which is precisely what resulted in European cities becoming extremely unsafe places for women, as unsafe in some respects as middle eastern cities..and sitting down and having a chat. A ridiculous belief that simply being nice to everyone will result in them being nice back .

You have no fucking idea full stop .