Sorry, in which way?
how the SWP ended up working in Tower Hamlets with fascists & war criminals
- Thread starter durruti02
- Start date
Sorry, in which way?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
treelover said:
It was posted on the wrong SWP thread.
Balbi
Hey, Dean Yager!
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
was this also not supported by SWP here to support the muslim brotherhood?
xslavearcx
time for a nu-metal revival?
that answers my last question !
thats a ridiculous article .. whats also interesting is it appears, unless i'm being blind, to have no author??? though guessing someone senior in RS??
wow sihhi ( hope you well mate!There's been all kind of odd 'wider Middle East' politics going on with the SWP - in aspects of the approach to Iran during the RESPECT era.
"When Rostami claimed that the Iranian women had more rights and family protection after the revolution than before, it was just too much for the Iranians in the room. There was an uproar of protest at her nonsense, especially from the Iranian women.
...
What? No time to question all this nonsense that was spluttered out at this poor English public? The Iranians were furious. Even I, normally a placid person, couldn't stop myself from going to the panel and shouting
"You talk about freedom of speech. You have a meeting about Iran and yet you don't let the Iranians in this room speak?" I roared at the panel. By this time SWP activists were calling for more reinforcement on their mobiles. Elaheh Rostami finally had to be escorted out of the room surrounded by a ring of SWP activists, while Iranians were shouting "Shame on You, Shame on You" at her."
Also in the behaviour in Turkey still in tacit support of the soft Islamist (neoliberal) decade long AKP government.
Here is their key theoretical leader in Turkey - Roni Margulies shaking hands with the Prime Minister after he won the power-centralising constitutional referendum (SWP supported the government, most of the left and Kurdish nationalists endorsed boycott, some called for a no).
The woman next to him is Bejan Matur also a government supporter.
In an even stranger twist [whilst the Turkish government is allowing covert assistance from the Gulf states to the Sunni hardcore in a few refugee camps administered and controlled by the Turkish military (a group of centre-left opposition MPs tried to visit but were barred)] the SWP then organised a protest not against their own government but against Putin opposite the Russian embassy.
) thats insane!!! you got any links for that please??protest against attacks by Jammat e Islami in Bangaldesh ..
PROTEST AGAINST ATTACKS ON RELEGIOUS MINORITIES IN BANGLADESH
Houses of Parliament
WEDNESDAY 13 MARCH 2013, 11am-1pm
Programme
Demonstration in front of parliament 11am – 1pm
Meeting with Jim Fitzpatrick MP 12.40 pm
Meeting with Lord Avebury1pm
Meeting with Jermy Corbyn MP 11.30am
Procession to Foreign office and demonstration2pm -3pm
Meeting with Foreign office 3pm
Meeting with Amnesty International 4.30pm
Please come along with your banners/placards to support the minority community of Bangladesh.
Ekattorer Ghatak Dalal Nirmul Committee, Juktorajyo
International Forum for Secular Bangladesh, UK
www.secularvoiceofbangladesh.org
PROTEST AGAINST ATTACKS ON RELEGIOUS MINORITIES IN BANGLADESH
Houses of Parliament
WEDNESDAY 13 MARCH 2013, 11am-1pm
Programme
Demonstration in front of parliament 11am – 1pm
Meeting with Jim Fitzpatrick MP 12.40 pm
Meeting with Lord Avebury1pm
Meeting with Jermy Corbyn MP 11.30am
Procession to Foreign office and demonstration2pm -3pm
Meeting with Foreign office 3pm
Meeting with Amnesty International 4.30pm
Please come along with your banners/placards to support the minority community of Bangladesh.
Ekattorer Ghatak Dalal Nirmul Committee, Juktorajyo
International Forum for Secular Bangladesh, UK
www.secularvoiceofbangladesh.org
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I'm travelling back from Corby then otherwise I would have come along. Are there any other demonstrations planned? I should be able to come along to some stuff soon (bastard agencies fucked up my payments so I should be paid double the end of next week).
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
durruti02
On which parts? It's very confusing because the RSWP in Turkey in the mid-90s were arguing in favour of the soft-left RPP against the Islamists.
I think it's similar in Egypt, the RS group was saying that the Islamists were a branch of the military, to be avoided as far as possible. Then around the mid-1990s there's a sort of shift and the need to run joint opposition slates emerges and Harman's book about Islam gets published.
There's a basic problem in both countries (and Pakistan for that matter where the IST set up a bracnh in the early 2000s) in that the Westen European IST model of burrowing into trade union rep positions doesn't really work to form united front organisations to press and achieve the transitional programme (do the SWP still consider the TP important?), because 1. trade union density is so weak due to repression 2. many people work in non-workplace situations without a direct boss but rent out mini-capital and are "self-employed" but very poor in the informal sector.
In addition to this kind of general Third World problem you've got the fact of powerful Islamist movements that have taken the form and methods of leftist organising - street by street, door by door, window by window - alongside the immense advantages that come from an Islamist bosses groups handing out charity and resources (plus a weekly vaaz/sermon for general moral/social ideas, not so much of a factor).
So in Turkey they eventually swept to power in 2002, in Egypt it was in 2012, they're still trying in Pakistan and they might do it in some form (Pakistan is a bit different because it has much more of an agricultural sector and a 'peasant families' backbone that is party tribal).
The thing about these IST parties in Egypt and Turkey is that they are very highly educated - PhDs and university professors or even published poets (as in the case of Roni Margulies), very many of the key people speak English and so in their attempt to mould Cliff's theories onto their countries replaced labour-demand united fronts with loose unspoken fronts with Islamists. (Not worse than calling for a Labour vote just different).
The change sort of came in response to the Egyptian state crackdown on Islamists in the wake of the 1997 Luxor bombing. The Islamists begin spouting more revolutionary rhetoric whilst at the same time moderating away from any armed path - hence becoming a more sensible tacit united front partner.
In Turkey there was the early 1997 military advice to the coalition Islamist conservative government to step down - a wave of arrests of Islamists followed and greater clarity of vision by the Islamists to play as the anti-army candidates and win power without a coalition.
Both the RS and RSWP - because they are so tiny maybe? - sometimes looks on the outside as if they feel they have to differentiate themselves from the rest of the left - hence the call for a Yes in the Turkish referendum and for Mursi in the election (the latter was overturned by people on the ground) - even whilst being part of other left electoral coalitions.
The SWP approach to Iran has been all over the place - not exactly sure why. So for a while it was people in the west do not need to openly oppose the Iran regime - remember the STWC kerfuffle about Iranian emigres wanting to speak for a short time on a platform - then it sort of became the West prefers Ahmedinijad to Mussavi because Mussavi is still an Iranian nationalist but can't be a bogeyman during the 2009 mass protests - now it's become a clear 'Stop Western sanctions' but no further analysis - I don't know what the right answer is, just observing the line deviations.
On which parts? It's very confusing because the RSWP in Turkey in the mid-90s were arguing in favour of the soft-left RPP against the Islamists.
I think it's similar in Egypt, the RS group was saying that the Islamists were a branch of the military, to be avoided as far as possible. Then around the mid-1990s there's a sort of shift and the need to run joint opposition slates emerges and Harman's book about Islam gets published.
There's a basic problem in both countries (and Pakistan for that matter where the IST set up a bracnh in the early 2000s) in that the Westen European IST model of burrowing into trade union rep positions doesn't really work to form united front organisations to press and achieve the transitional programme (do the SWP still consider the TP important?), because 1. trade union density is so weak due to repression 2. many people work in non-workplace situations without a direct boss but rent out mini-capital and are "self-employed" but very poor in the informal sector.
In addition to this kind of general Third World problem you've got the fact of powerful Islamist movements that have taken the form and methods of leftist organising - street by street, door by door, window by window - alongside the immense advantages that come from an Islamist bosses groups handing out charity and resources (plus a weekly vaaz/sermon for general moral/social ideas, not so much of a factor).
So in Turkey they eventually swept to power in 2002, in Egypt it was in 2012, they're still trying in Pakistan and they might do it in some form (Pakistan is a bit different because it has much more of an agricultural sector and a 'peasant families' backbone that is party tribal).
The thing about these IST parties in Egypt and Turkey is that they are very highly educated - PhDs and university professors or even published poets (as in the case of Roni Margulies), very many of the key people speak English and so in their attempt to mould Cliff's theories onto their countries replaced labour-demand united fronts with loose unspoken fronts with Islamists. (Not worse than calling for a Labour vote just different).
The change sort of came in response to the Egyptian state crackdown on Islamists in the wake of the 1997 Luxor bombing. The Islamists begin spouting more revolutionary rhetoric whilst at the same time moderating away from any armed path - hence becoming a more sensible tacit united front partner.
In Turkey there was the early 1997 military advice to the coalition Islamist conservative government to step down - a wave of arrests of Islamists followed and greater clarity of vision by the Islamists to play as the anti-army candidates and win power without a coalition.
Both the RS and RSWP - because they are so tiny maybe? - sometimes looks on the outside as if they feel they have to differentiate themselves from the rest of the left - hence the call for a Yes in the Turkish referendum and for Mursi in the election (the latter was overturned by people on the ground) - even whilst being part of other left electoral coalitions.
The SWP approach to Iran has been all over the place - not exactly sure why. So for a while it was people in the west do not need to openly oppose the Iran regime - remember the STWC kerfuffle about Iranian emigres wanting to speak for a short time on a platform - then it sort of became the West prefers Ahmedinijad to Mussavi because Mussavi is still an Iranian nationalist but can't be a bogeyman during the 2009 mass protests - now it's become a clear 'Stop Western sanctions' but no further analysis - I don't know what the right answer is, just observing the line deviations.
sihhi
Tyranny, like hell, is not easily conquered
This is the latest genuine development:
Turkish SWP member Hayko Bagdat is the only one of a number of intellectuals/artists to accept a meeting with the PM, even though every other member of the Taksim campaign has said the talks are an attempt to break apart the protests and urged the intellectuals/artists not to go until demands (which have already been relayed) have been met. It's unreal.
Turkish SWP member Hayko Bagdat is the only one of a number of intellectuals/artists to accept a meeting with the PM, even though every other member of the Taksim campaign has said the talks are an attempt to break apart the protests and urged the intellectuals/artists not to go until demands (which have already been relayed) have been met. It's unreal.
its only when you examine how the SWP sister organisations operate in serious times of crisis that you understand just what the SWP is like and what it would mean in the (impossible) event of a SWP participation in Govt
Then we also had Chris Harman sign the Cairo Agreement which basically stipulated if in the event NATO ships blockaded Palestine they would be 'legitimate' targets, one could ask, by whom?
Then we also had Chris Harman sign the Cairo Agreement which basically stipulated if in the event NATO ships blockaded Palestine they would be 'legitimate' targets, one could ask, by whom?
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