How much do you believe car travel costs you per mile?

[A380]

I probably wouldn't own a car if i lived in inner london.

Changed to my view…

If I lived in zone 1 to 3 I wouldn’t think of owning a car. But I would sign up to one or more car clubs. Living in gods waiting room a car is more necessary. Although I’m always amazed at quite how good the local busses are. I will use the train to Norwich if I’m on my own but it’s almost always two of us and then it’s not such good value and the inconvenience is much greater.

 

[A380]

Circa £600.00 pa for insurance and servicing…

Interesting, and what are the costs for running your car?

 

[Saul Goodman]

Ummmmm... your MC tyre wear suggests otherwise.

Track days, old bean... track days
(and I did say 'drive', not 'ride' )

 

[8ball]

I am fully aware, of course, that cost is not the only factor in people's decisions, especially for journeys which for whatever reason, they consider more convenient or faster by car.

Over Christmas I was in a discussion with someone who was quoting the cost of driving (by himself) from the north of Scotland to Cambridge and back. He said it had cost him £140 in petrol. I had mentioned the cost of my return train ticket which was about £200 for a similar journey (London instead of Cambridge). That was less than he'd expected but he was saying it was still more expensive than the car. Then someone else (not me, believe it or not) questioned that, saying that to understand the real cost he should use a figure of about 50p per mile. For the 1000 mile round trip, that would make the real car cost about £500. It then looks a lot more than alternatives (which include flying as well as the train). And even if there were two people travelling together the car doesn't look to be the cheap option.

He was very resistant to the idea that he should be thinking about anything other than petrol costs though. Like his brain could not compute. £140 was what it had cost him and that was that.

I’m not sure the driver is getting Living Wage in this scenario.

 

[HeatherG]

Interesting - I don't drive either - and if 45p a mile is accurate, that makes my train commute seem like pretty decent value.

I do think a lot of drivers really don't take into account the full costs - depreciation, insurance, repairs, etc when comparing transport modes. For a lot of people (living in urban / decently connected areas) public transport and regular taxis would probably work out cheaper.

I watch Police Interceptors on Channel 5 and, believe me, it’s a real eye opener.
I don’t drive and even if I could, I wouldn’t. There are far, far too many irresponsible and Testosterone-led young men driving cars they’ve stolen, old bangers not fit to be MOT’d.

There are sooooooo many young men out there, driving up and down, usually speeding. Usually under the influence of drink and drugs (together sometimes!). More often than not, they’re driving with no insurance, no vehicle M.O.T., no Road Tax and, believe it or not - not even a full driving licence! If they have a provisional licence, they’ll be driving ALONE WITHOUT a fully qualified and insured driver next to them (more often than not!). In too many cases, they’ll be driving WITHOUT having ANY driving licence. Again, in many, many cases, they are disqualified drivers who’ve had their licence taken away because of just that - speeding, drink-driving, drug-driving, driving stolen vehicles, etc.
I really don’t know what it is with men. Is it so shameful to be seen waiting for a bus at a bus stop, riding a legitimately bought and owned, moped or motorbike (taxed and insured) or just plain cycling? Are they really too superior for that? Is it sooooo macho and manly to be seen driving? Is THAT why they continue driving even if they’re disqualified?
When the Interceptors chase them, they don’t want to stop and will do anything to get away from being stopped and arrested by the police. They’ll even use their car as a weapon to ram the police car to put it out of action. All because they have no licence to drive and are uninsured! Incredible.
They really are quite pathetic! To think there’s a shortage of British Army and Navy recruits. They’re so weak, cowardly and utterly spineless, we can’t rely on any of them to defend this country - they’d do ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING to avoid being big, brave and oh so macho but like to claim that they are! They aren’t as they used to be in the good ol’ days of yesteryear.

 

[8ball]

I watch Police Interceptors on Channel 5 and, believe me, it’s a real eye opener.
I don’t drive and even if I could, I wouldn’t. There are far, far too many irresponsible and Testosterone-led young men driving cars they’ve stolen, old bangers not fit to be MOT’d.

There are sooooooo many young men out there, driving up and down, usually speeding. Usually under the influence of drink and drugs (together sometimes!). More often than not, they’re driving with no insurance, no vehicle M.O.T., no Road Tax and, believe it or not - not even a full driving licence! If they have a provisional licence, they’ll be driving ALONE WITHOUT a fully qualified and insured driver next to them (more often than not!). In too many cases, they’ll be driving WITHOUT having ANY driving licence. Again, in many, many cases, they are disqualified drivers who’ve had their licence taken away because of just that - speeding, drink-driving, drug-driving, driving stolen vehicles, etc.
I really don’t know what it is with men. Is it so shameful to be seen waiting for a bus at a bus stop, riding a legitimately bought and owned, moped or motorbike (taxed and insured) or just plain cycling? Are they really too superior for that? Is it sooooo macho and manly to be seen driving? Is THAT why they continue driving even if they’re disqualified?
When the Interceptors chase them, they don’t want to stop and will do anything to get away from being stopped and arrested by the police. They’ll even use their car as a weapon to ram the police car to put it out of action. All because they have no licence to drive and are uninsured! Incredible.
They really are quite pathetic! To think there’s a shortage of British Army and Navy recruits. They’re so weak, cowardly and utterly spineless, we can’t rely on any of them to defend this country - they’d do ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING to avoid being big, brave and oh so macho but like to claim that they are! They aren’t as they used to be in the good ol’ days of yesteryear.

Flogging’s too good for ‘em.

 

[A380]

I watch Police Interceptors on Channel 5 and, believe me, it’s a real eye opener.
I don’t drive and even if I could, I wouldn’t. There are far, far too many irresponsible and Testosterone-led young men driving cars they’ve stolen, old bangers not fit to be MOT’d.

There are sooooooo many young men out there, driving up and down, usually speeding. Usually under the influence of drink and drugs (together sometimes!). More often than not, they’re driving with no insurance, no vehicle M.O.T., no Road Tax and, believe it or not - not even a full driving licence! If they have a provisional licence, they’ll be driving ALONE WITHOUT a fully qualified and insured driver next to them (more often than not!). In too many cases, they’ll be driving WITHOUT having ANY driving licence. Again, in many, many cases, they are disqualified drivers who’ve had their licence taken away because of just that - speeding, drink-driving, drug-driving, driving stolen vehicles, etc.
I really don’t know what it is with men. Is it so shameful to be seen waiting for a bus at a bus stop, riding a legitimately bought and owned, moped or motorbike (taxed and insured) or just plain cycling? Are they really too superior for that? Is it sooooo macho and manly to be seen driving? Is THAT why they continue driving even if they’re disqualified?
When the Interceptors chase them, they don’t want to stop and will do anything to get away from being stopped and arrested by the police. They’ll even use their car as a weapon to ram the police car to put it out of action. All because they have no licence to drive and are uninsured! Incredible.
They really are quite pathetic! To think there’s a shortage of British Army and Navy recruits. They’re so weak, cowardly and utterly spineless, we can’t rely on any of them to defend this country - they’d do ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING to avoid being big, brave and oh so macho but like to claim that they are! They aren’t as they used to be in the good ol’ days of yesteryear.

You were going just about OK for the first 30% or so. 3/10 mostly for effort…

 

[moochedit]

I am fully aware, of course, that cost is not the only factor in people's decisions, especially for journeys which for whatever reason, they consider more convenient or faster by car.

Over Christmas I was in a discussion with someone who was quoting the cost of driving (by himself) from the north of Scotland to Cambridge and back. He said it had cost him £140 in petrol. I had mentioned the cost of my return train ticket which was about £200 for a similar journey (London instead of Cambridge). That was less than he'd expected but he was saying it was still more expensive than the car. Then someone else (not me, believe it or not) questioned that, saying that to understand the real cost he should use a figure of about 50p per mile. For the 1000 mile round trip, that would make the real car cost about £500. It then looks a lot more than alternatives (which include flying as well as the train). And even if there were two people travelling together the car doesn't look to be the cheap option.

He was very resistant to the idea that he should be thinking about anything other than petrol costs though. Like his brain could not compute. £140 was what it had cost him and that was that.

If i had to do a long journey like that, i would probably consider going by train. More to do with the fact that i hate long distance driving than the cost though.

 

[Saul Goodman]

I watch Police Interceptors on Channel 5 and, believe me, it’s a real eye opener.
I don’t drive and even if I could, I wouldn’t. There are far, far too many irresponsible and Testosterone-led young men driving cars they’ve stolen, old bangers not fit to be MOT’d.

There are sooooooo many young men out there, driving up and down, usually speeding. Usually under the influence of drink and drugs (together sometimes!). More often than not, they’re driving with no insurance, no vehicle M.O.T., no Road Tax and, believe it or not - not even a full driving licence! If they have a provisional licence, they’ll be driving ALONE WITHOUT a fully qualified and insured driver next to them (more often than not!). In too many cases, they’ll be driving WITHOUT having ANY driving licence. Again, in many, many cases, they are disqualified drivers who’ve had their licence taken away because of just that - speeding, drink-driving, drug-driving, driving stolen vehicles, etc.
I really don’t know what it is with men. Is it so shameful to be seen waiting for a bus at a bus stop, riding a legitimately bought and owned, moped or motorbike (taxed and insured) or just plain cycling? Are they really too superior for that? Is it sooooo macho and manly to be seen driving? Is THAT why they continue driving even if they’re disqualified?
When the Interceptors chase them, they don’t want to stop and will do anything to get away from being stopped and arrested by the police. They’ll even use their car as a weapon to ram the police car to put it out of action. All because they have no licence to drive and are uninsured! Incredible.
They really are quite pathetic! To think there’s a shortage of British Army and Navy recruits. They’re so weak, cowardly and utterly spineless, we can’t rely on any of them to defend this country - they’d do ANYTHING, absolutely ANYTHING to avoid being big, brave and oh so macho but like to claim that they are! They aren’t as they used to be in the good ol’ days of yesteryear.

Are you one of those bots that escaped from facebook?

 

[weltweit]

..
Try taking three others on a train journey and see the costs mount up!

Indeed take a train fair from Cardiff to Waterloo.
Multiply by 4 people, what do you have?

Take a car journey along the M4 from Cardiff to London.
The car can already take 4 people, perhaps add 5% for extra weight.
What do you have?

 

[Winot]

It's really boring how often threads about driving turn into people defensively arguing that some journeys aren't practical to do by public transport and are better driven. Um, we know.

It's like talking to my mum (who lives in North Norfolk) about LTNs in Brixton.

WELL IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL TO CLOSE OFF THE ROUTE TO LITTLE SNORING THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD DO THAT WITHOUT A CAR

Yes Mum, I know, that's why no one's suggesting that

 

[ska invita]

The most important factor for me is that I can go wherever I want, whenever I want.
My mother lives ~30 miles away. If she were to fall or anything were to happen to her, I'm a phone call and half an hour away. There are no alternatives to a car in this situation, so apart from petrol, the cost per mile isn't a figure I'd even contemplate. It's just part of owning a car, and it's absolutely immaterial... to me. One trip would be worth all of the annual costs combined.

Taxi?

I don't drive much for personal use. I sometimes wonder if it would be cheaper to just get a taxi everywhere than all the running costs, as a theoretical exercise (it's impractical in reality of course)

 

[SpookyFrank]

The road that gets me to work is being dug up until October, call it Christmas once you've had the inevitable delays, so that adds at least ten minutes each way and really eats into the time saving relative to getting the train. Also if I'm driving all I can do is drive. On the train I can do work emails, which allows me to leave work earlier, listen to music, read a book or just stare out the window. Unless of course 30 marines get on the train and start bellowing moronic shit at each other like they did today.

Didn't drive to work once this week. Kept feeling like I should, so I don't forget how to drive, but the car I've got at the moment is a piece of shit that needs replacing ASAP, there's been ice and snow and stressful things on the roads, and I'm just happier if I don't drive. I get to work in a better mood, leave in a better mood for knowing I don't have to drive home.

So maybe driving would save me 40p a year compared to the train, but I don't give a shit to be perfectly honest. That 40p won't buy me back the years that sitting in traffic every day will take off my life.

 

[Saul Goodman]

Taxi?

I don't drive much for personal use. I sometimes wonder if it would be cheaper to just get a taxi everywhere than all the running costs, as a theoretical exercise (it's impractical in reality of course)

"We'll be with you in a couple of hours"
"That'll be €140.80, thank you. Let's just call it €150"

 

[Saul Goodman]

It's really boring how often threads about driving turn into people defensively arguing that some journeys aren't practical to do by public transport and are better driven. Um, we know.

It's like talking to my mum (who lives in North Norfolk) about LTNs in Brixton.

WELL IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL TO CLOSE OFF THE ROUTE TO LITTLE SNORING THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD DO THAT WITHOUT A CAR

Yes Mum, I know, that's why no one's suggesting that

What's really boring is people trying to convince others to use trains.
Even if trains were free I wouldn't use them, unless it was an emergency and my car wasn't working.

 

[Riklet]

I find driving works out about half the price of getting the train, unless you get a good deal. It's a total swizz.

Did SW to London return for new year for about 35 quid, would have been 70 quid on the train. Plus I gave my housemate a lift on the way back. I only buy cheaper cars and I do a lot of the work myself if I can, so my main costs are petrol, road tax and insurance.

I would say I do about 6000 miles a year and I spend about 2250 a year let's say 38p a mile.

 

[Elpenor]

My car is off the road and the end result is I’m isolated.

It takes longer to go to the city (20 miles away) so hard to get out and see a film. There are nearer cinemas but they show Hollywood popcorn stuff which I don’t care for.

I can’t easily get to work, as it means two buses, or one 35 minute bus and a 45 minute walk with no streetlighting along a dual carriageway. The walk might be good in the daylight (not scenic but exercise). Cost for a day bus pass is £10.50 or £6 if I just take a single bus and tab the rest. Bus is hourly and stops around 1930. There is another bus that goes the coast route but it takes a lot longer. Getting into work for my preferred start time of 0730 means the slow bus and leaving home at 0540. Also tricky to then do stuff in the city after work as it would mean being out of the house from 0530 to 2300+ which would wreck me for the next few days. I miss my colleagues and was grateful to bump into one of them earlier by chance.

Going by train takes longer and costs more as it’s a 40 minute walk to the station then the Riviera Line / Avocet line crawler. Also a chance of bumping into SpookyFrank as it sounds like he takes that train too. Work is nearish to a station

Getting to rugby involves more or less the same work journey though I don’t need to do this in the early morning. Sunday matches are a pain in the bum though.

Basically 20 minute journeys can become 90 minutes and that’s with a bus stop a minute from home.

Getting to friends who live a few miles away also becomes a 90 minute journey.

So what I realise is I need access to a car to live my current life or else move to the big city where things become more walkable and there’s a better bus service and a car becomes less critical.

In the meantime car owners are subsidised by the government and bus fares just rose by 50%

They don’t want the poor to leave their houses do they.

 

[Steel Icarus]

My bus fare just went up from £2 to £2.80 (one way) and I was discussing this with a colleague, who said he reckons driving to work is cheaper. We didn't do any working out but it seems accurate to me. And I've only just given up three mornings' worth of lifts to go on the bus.

 

[teuchter]

I would say I do about 6000 miles a year and I spend about 2250 a year let's say 38p a mile.

But that's not the cost you reckon on, if you're considering the cost of a journey in isolation, is that right? If you are comparing it with the cost of an alternative type of transport.

 

[nogojones]

To be precise - the number I am interested in is the marginal cost - per mile. Not the total cost.

It's the extra cost per mile once you've paid for all the fixed costs. So it doesn't include the cost of buying the car itself and it doesn't include any costs that you have to pay regardless of how far you drive.

It includes more than just fuel costs though - it includes the costs of maintenance or replacement parts that are related to mileage. So, things like tyres that you have to replace every X miles.

I am interested in two things:

- Do you have any per-mile figure in mind, or is the only figure you really have in mind fuel costs?

- If you do, do you ever use this figure to make decisions about whether to use your car versus other options, for journeys that you make?

I CBA to work it out, but I only really use my van for going to work if I need to carry tools/materials, or if I'm going away and want to crash in it.

If it wasn't for work, I might consider just hiring a vehicle when I needed it, as it's pretty marginal given the amount of non-work travel I do. I tend to walk everywhere in this city, or take trains to other cities.

I also share the van with my lad, so one vehicle over two households

 

[Sasaferrato]

It's really boring how often threads about driving turn into people defensively arguing that some journeys aren't practical to do by public transport and are better driven. Um, we know.

It's like talking to my mum (who lives in North Norfolk) about LTNs in Brixton.

WELL IT WOULD BE COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL TO CLOSE OFF THE ROUTE TO LITTLE SNORING THERE'S NO WAY YOU COULD DO THAT WITHOUT A CAR

Yes Mum, I know, that's why no one's suggesting that

IIRC it is Lesser Snoring.

Apologies, it is Little Snoring, close by Great Snoring.

 

[Chz]

That's an allowance not an actual cost

The price of fuel is a major factor of course but the last time I checked the figures published by the AA, the actual marginal cost was somewhere between 17 and 25p

That sounds a bit more reasonable. The big choice is choosing to have a car or not. Once you've decided that you need a car, most of the big costs are sunk and don't vary a lot by (reasonable) mileage. Owning a car is expensive. But once you've paid the costs of owning the car, driving it is fairly cheap. We get a smidge over 40mpg in mixed driving, service and MOT once a year is ~£250. At our mileage (3-4k/year), things like tyres and whatnot are a fairly long-term item and wiper blades are about the only thing I regularly have to replace. I tend to buy Japanese and, knock on wood, have not had any major repair expenses in the last 20 years.

 

[rubbershoes]

Taking public transport to work would be a challenge, as there's only two buses a week out of the village. And they both leave at lunchtime.

So I'd have to walk 4 miles into town to get a bus from there. Public transport from there will take 10 hours to work, including 3 buses, 4 trains and a lot of time in waiting rooms. If I leave home by 9pm I'll be at work on time. I have no idea what this would cost as unsurprisingly I've never done it.

 

[Riklet]

But that's not the cost you reckon on, if you're considering the cost of a journey in isolation, is that right? If you are comparing it with the cost of an alternative type of transport.

Thats my total cost for the entire year, petrol road tax, insurance, repairs and £54 for an MOT.

If I was to compare it with a cheap coach I think it works out more expensive per mile. Perhaps with a train it's about the same actually in many cases provided I travel off peak. This doesnt take into account the cost of public transport or taxi to and from the train station however. Nor issues and cost with parking in places like London.

Youre right in that I claimed driving to London (for the weekend say) is half the price of the train which is not actually true, as I have just proved with my calculations. It's much more similar than I thought.

 

[teuchter]

Thats my total cost for the entire year, petrol road tax, insurance, repairs and £54 for an MOT.

If I was to compare it with a cheap coach I think it works out more expensive per mile. Perhaps with a train it's about the same actually in many cases provided I travel off peak. This doesnt take into account the cost of public transport or taxi to and from the train station however. Nor issues and cost with parking in places like London.

Youre right in that I claimed driving to London (for the weekend say) is half the price of the train which is not actually true, as I have just proved with my calculations. It's much more similar than I thought.

But the question this thread is trying to ask is what (you reckon) the marginal cost is - that is, the additional cost of an individual journey, on top of all the fixed costs that you've already paid, having decided to own a car.

The 38p is not that marginal cost. Your marginal cost must be less than 38p.

 

[Chz]

But the question this thread is trying to ask is what (you reckon) the marginal cost is - that is, the additional cost of an individual journey, on top of all the fixed costs that you've already paid, having decided to own a car.

The 38p is not that marginal cost. Your marginal cost must be less than 38p.

If you take an average of 40mpg and £1.50/L, you're looking at 14p/mile quite roughly. If we say tyres last 30k and cost £100/pop, that's an extra 1.5p/mile. Wipers age out regardless of use, and I'm struggling to come up with any regular item replacement that's based on mileage instead of age. (eg: modern engines tend to hit the 1 year limit on oil changes before they hit the mileage limit) Brakes, I suppose, but if you drive the right way brake pads last a very long time indeed. Doubly so in a hybrid or EV with regenerative. So 15.5p/mile plus parking if your car is reliable and you don't brake like an arsehole. Edit - Diesels get better mileage, but have to factor in AdBlue. I've no idea what that costs, and I don't know how to factor in having to do a long drive every so often for the DPF. Either way, I think it's safe to say the primary cost driver is petrol and everything else is noise in terms of cost per mile after fixed costs.

Insurance is very loosely tied to mileage, but the difference is slight until you get into Very Serious miles. Everything else is recurring annual cost for basic service, MOT, VED, any local parking fees.

 

[Riklet]

But the question this thread is trying to ask is what (you reckon) the marginal cost is - that is, the additional cost of an individual journey, on top of all the fixed costs that you've already paid, having decided to own a car.

The 38p is not that marginal cost. Your marginal cost must be less than 38p.

Oh I see. Id say overall it works out the same or cheaper. Let's say the train bus combined would cost me 45p per mile so marginal is -£0.07.

Why is why most peoole have a car. While its expensive so are the alternatives. And I dont even need to drive to work or have children or whatever, but it still makes sense for me. In terms of personal freedom it's nice being able to leave from my house at 7pm to get somewhere, and for £70 I could pretty much drive anywhere in the UK. Train inverness tomorrow single would cost me £149.60 off peak leaving after 10am...

 

[teuchter]

Oh I see. Id say overall it works out the same or cheaper. Let's say the train bus combined would cost me 45p per mile so marginal is -£0.07.

Why is why most peoole have a car. While its expensive so are the alternatives. And I dont even need to drive to work or have children or whatever, but it still makes sense for me. In terms of personal freedom it's nice being able to leave from my house at 7pm to get somewhere, and for £70 I could pretty much drive anywhere in the UK.

No, I don't mean the difference between the train/bus and the car.

It's as Chz describes above; just dividing your yearly costs by yearly miles doesn't tell you the potential cost of an individual journey that you are about to make.

If you already have the car, have paid for it and the insurance and tax and everything, then the additional per-mile cost for a journey is less than your 38p. It may be more like 20p - this (as a car owner) is what, rationally, you are comparing with the train or bus fare.

For a non car owner like me the calculation is different because all that money I haven't spent on buying & maintaining a car is, as it were, still in my pocket and available to pay public transport fares.

 

[kabbes]

I think Chz has it right. The marginal cost for a single journey is really just the cost of the fuel. Other costs would be well less than 1p per mile, given that the key expenses are already accounted for.

 

[Brainaddict]

But the question this thread is trying to ask is what (you reckon) the marginal cost is - that is, the additional cost of an individual journey, on top of all the fixed costs that you've already paid, having decided to own a car.

The 38p is not that marginal cost. Your marginal cost must be less than 38p.

I don't really understand your motivation for getting at the marginal cost rather than full cost. I think the main thing people discount when they calculate the cost of the journey is the cost of the car and the insurance. And when I tot up the hundreds of pounds I spend on trains and taxis in a year I comfort myself with the fact I don't have x thousand of fixed costs in car ownership

Perhaps you are specifically trying to work out if x train journey is worthwhile for someone who already owns a car, but it's a pointless thing to try to calculate because of all the other factors people have brought up. Once you own a car it brings levels of convenience that, alas, can't be matched by public transport except in London. I don't think there's any point in disputing that. The fixed costs are bloody expensive though, and I wish people paid more heed to them.