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How close are we to war breaking out in Europe?

Yeah, I think a full scale invasion seems unlikely (from my position of knowing next to fuck-all) and probably isn't the plan. But things can get out of hand and escalate...
tbh i don't think an invasion's on the cards - some people say, and they may be right, this is just a negotiating ploy. it might be a way to find out what the nato countries would do, how they'd respond to a massive build-up of forces. and shipping a few thousand troops to the east doesn't to my mind look like they'd do all that much to defend ukraine. maybe this is not about an invasion (and from what i've seen kiev have said they're not expecting one): maybe it's to show the ukraine government how little support they'd get from the usa etc

maybe if the russians were threatening estonia, latvia, lithuania, maybe the western powers would do more. but on the current showing western imperialism looks very much like a paper tiger.
 
i think that maybe in this situation sanctions (very specific ones against named individuals in putin's circle, so many of whom own mansions in London and so on) are a real serious weapon that may well prevent the worst.
Sanctions can say you you and you, the oligarchs that are his cohort and his power network, your mayfair houses are forfeited & you cant ever go to harrods again if this action is taken by Moscow or its military. They would really not like that.
 


sensible people over there seem to be suggesting the war fever is hysterical bollocks.

Key from a report in the Kyiv Independent the other week is that whilst the Russians are movin g a lot of kit into Belarus and to their south-western border with E Ukraine, there are (according to reports) no field hospitals or medical units.

Looks like the heavy movement of troops as much about consolidating a soft annexation of Belarus, that is deniable diplomatically.

The Russians have stirred things right up, exosed cracks in a pissweak NATO and bammed up the Americans without committing a single soldier over the border. They have made a regional governer of Lukashenko, previously a cantankerous and unpredictable "Head of State" of a neighbouring country, that would make favourable noises about whoever gave him money. The Chinese have publicly backed Russian actions diplomatically. I think Vladimir Putin will be happy enough with that.

As for Britain, Liz Truss et al, we may as well pay attention to the Andorran foreign minister. The Russians don't take the UK seriously at all militarily, as long as the dirty sink for moeny laundering in the City is untouched. Boris Johnson was elegantly reminded of how little he matters when his attempt to re-schedule his phone call with Putin last week was rebuffed curtly.

Yes kit is being sent over there and I have no doubt a few men in brown woolly jumpers to keep an eye on things, but 'global Britain' is a hollow joke.
 
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sensible people over there seem to be suggesting the war fever is hysterical bollocks.

Key from a report in the Kyiv Independent the other week is that whislt the Russians are movin g a lot of kit into Belarus and to their south-western border with E Ukraine, there are (according to reports) no field hospitals or medical units.
Yep the news in the Ukraine, France and Germany all seems a lot less countdown to war than here/the US. Which is not to say that those countries are not playing their own games but some of the stories UK/US spooks are trying to get reported need to be taken with a fucking huge mountain of salt
 
I hope Putin has thought this through.

An initial invasion, overpowering the Ukraine forces is probably doable but there will be losses on the Russian side especially as the Ukrainians now have a number of up to date anti tank missiles etc.

So he has overcome and now occupies Ukraine, but what then, there will be a resistance possibly armed by Nato countries, Ukraine could become another Afghanistan for Putin, it may be his dream that the Ukrainians may come to love mother Russia, but it also seems quite doubtful, indeed I doubt there is any precedence.

So it could be that he is tied into a long unfruitful occupation, while the west refuses to buy his gas, and sanctions bite at home. A quick invasion might seem almost romantic, but a prolonged occupation does not.
 
After WW2, and the re conquest of the Ukraine by the Red Army, anti-Russian resistance in Ukraine (and the Baltic states) continued for a whole decade more. Not saying that would necessarily happen now, but similar did happen in Chechnya only recently.
 
My initial thought is 'Not our fight'.

However, if Ukraine falls to Russia, where next?

Really don't know, just very glad that it isn't my decision on whether to get involved or not.

Remember, India and Pakistan have been in a standoff for years over Kashmir.
 
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