Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
would you go to war to protect the territorial integrity of ukraine?
How close are we to war breaking out in Europe?
- Thread starter Aladdin
- Start date
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
tbh i don't think an invasion's on the cards - some people say, and they may be right, this is just a negotiating ploy. it might be a way to find out what the nato countries would do, how they'd respond to a massive build-up of forces. and shipping a few thousand troops to the east doesn't to my mind look like they'd do all that much to defend ukraine. maybe this is not about an invasion (and from what i've seen kiev have said they're not expecting one): maybe it's to show the ukraine government how little support they'd get from the usa etc
maybe if the russians were threatening estonia, latvia, lithuania, maybe the western powers would do more. but on the current showing western imperialism looks very much like a paper tiger.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Would you?
bimble
floofy
i think that maybe in this situation sanctions (very specific ones against named individuals in putin's circle, so many of whom own mansions in London and so on) are a real serious weapon that may well prevent the worst.
Sanctions can say you you and you, the oligarchs that are his cohort and his power network, your mayfair houses are forfeited & you cant ever go to harrods again if this action is taken by Moscow or its military. They would really not like that.
Sanctions can say you you and you, the oligarchs that are his cohort and his power network, your mayfair houses are forfeited & you cant ever go to harrods again if this action is taken by Moscow or its military. They would really not like that.
klang
klang
he has started wars over missing apostrophes.
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
sensible people over there seem to be suggesting the war fever is hysterical bollocks.
Key from a report in the Kyiv Independent the other week is that whilst the Russians are movin g a lot of kit into Belarus and to their south-western border with E Ukraine, there are (according to reports) no field hospitals or medical units.
Looks like the heavy movement of troops as much about consolidating a soft annexation of Belarus, that is deniable diplomatically.
The Russians have stirred things right up, exosed cracks in a pissweak NATO and bammed up the Americans without committing a single soldier over the border. They have made a regional governer of Lukashenko, previously a cantankerous and unpredictable "Head of State" of a neighbouring country, that would make favourable noises about whoever gave him money. The Chinese have publicly backed Russian actions diplomatically. I think Vladimir Putin will be happy enough with that.
As for Britain, Liz Truss et al, we may as well pay attention to the Andorran foreign minister. The Russians don't take the UK seriously at all militarily, as long as the dirty sink for moeny laundering in the City is untouched. Boris Johnson was elegantly reminded of how little he matters when his attempt to re-schedule his phone call with Putin last week was rebuffed curtly.
Yes kit is being sent over there and I have no doubt a few men in brown woolly jumpers to keep an eye on things, but 'global Britain' is a hollow joke.
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redsquirrel
This Machine Kills Progressives
Yep the news in the Ukraine, France and Germany all seems a lot less countdown to war than here/the US. Which is not to say that those countries are not playing their own games but some of the stories UK/US spooks are trying to get reported need to be taken with a fucking huge mountain of salt
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
More the whole Cheshire salt plain needs pouring on those stories. Ludicrous, really.
That doesn't matter. Johnson would if he could come up with some
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
He does seem to think he is the spawn of Churchill
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Number one survival tip for nuclear war: don't.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
He'd need to persuade rather more people than just the cabinet
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, the Churchill of Gallipoli and Dieppe
Yeah, a couple of newspaper editors, but they'll be as happy as Boris at the whiff of war. It sells papers. He'll be pushing on an open door there.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You've obviously worked hard to be this clueless
Whereas you're naturally naive. Lucky you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
You don't think a single journo needs to be involved, just a couple of editors. And no place for parliament, where I'd imagine there'd be quite some debate. Being pig ignorant does you no favours.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I hope Putin has thought this through.
An initial invasion, overpowering the Ukraine forces is probably doable but there will be losses on the Russian side especially as the Ukrainians now have a number of up to date anti tank missiles etc.
So he has overcome and now occupies Ukraine, but what then, there will be a resistance possibly armed by Nato countries, Ukraine could become another Afghanistan for Putin, it may be his dream that the Ukrainians may come to love mother Russia, but it also seems quite doubtful, indeed I doubt there is any precedence.
So it could be that he is tied into a long unfruitful occupation, while the west refuses to buy his gas, and sanctions bite at home. A quick invasion might seem almost romantic, but a prolonged occupation does not.
An initial invasion, overpowering the Ukraine forces is probably doable but there will be losses on the Russian side especially as the Ukrainians now have a number of up to date anti tank missiles etc.
So he has overcome and now occupies Ukraine, but what then, there will be a resistance possibly armed by Nato countries, Ukraine could become another Afghanistan for Putin, it may be his dream that the Ukrainians may come to love mother Russia, but it also seems quite doubtful, indeed I doubt there is any precedence.
So it could be that he is tied into a long unfruitful occupation, while the west refuses to buy his gas, and sanctions bite at home. A quick invasion might seem almost romantic, but a prolonged occupation does not.
Flavour
hang the bankers
not happening
Sasaferrato
We've been together now for twenty years...
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
After WW2, and the re conquest of the Ukraine by the Red Army, anti-Russian resistance in Ukraine (and the Baltic states) continued for a whole decade more. Not saying that would necessarily happen now, but similar did happen in Chechnya only recently.
Sasaferrato
We've been together now for twenty years...
My initial thought is 'Not our fight'.
However, if Ukraine falls to Russia, where next?
Really don't know, just very glad that it isn't my decision on whether to get involved or not.
Remember, India and Pakistan have been in a standoff for years over Kashmir.
However, if Ukraine falls to Russia, where next?
Really don't know, just very glad that it isn't my decision on whether to get involved or not.
Remember, India and Pakistan have been in a standoff for years over Kashmir.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
That is my thought also.
Ukraine is surrounded by Nato countries, Putin won't dare invade a Nato country.
NoXion
Craicy the Squirrel
Certainly not while Germany are closing down nuclear power plants and burning more gas, the fucking idiots.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Wonder what China has planned for while everyone's focussed on ukraine
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think you need to look at a map
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Surrounded on all the sides bar north, east, south and south-west
steeplejack
trapped lbw for a duck
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