Hondo's plans for a huge tower on Pope's Road, Brixton and the Brixton Project

[editor]

Forgive my ignorance but what happens at the meeting in the 25th? Is it just a formality for approval?

I cant attend as I have a work meeting but this tower is a monstrosity. It will look outdated within a decade and be a huge eyesore.

Lambeth probably thank the 99.3% of residents who were against this project for contributing their valuable opinions and then rubber stamp the enormo-tower to the cheers of the millionaire socialite DJ and his pals. And Brixton Project.

 

[scmw]

Lambeth probably thank the 99.3% of residents who were against this project for contributing their valuable opinions and then rubber stamp the enormo-tower to the cheers of the millionaire socialite DJ and his pals. And Brixton Project.

That is so pathetic, the only saving grace is that at least there is 300 odd bike spaces. The market Portion looks like a good set-up but presumably it will be pret, Costa, etc. Hopefully the councillors represent the community sentiment.

 

[Gramsci]

Forgive my ignorance but what happens at the meeting in the 25th? Is it just a formality for approval?

I cant attend as I have a work meeting but this tower is a monstrosity. It will look outdated within a decade and be a huge eyesore.

Its a Zoom type meeting. Ive never done one for Planning Committee.

I have attended Planning Commitee pre Covid to observe or object.

As this is a major application with objections it will be moved to front of the agenda.

A limited number of objectors will get three minutes each. A Ward Cllr can also address committee.

The Planning Committee is quasi judiical. It is made up of Cllrs. Each party gets a certain number depending on how many Cllrs they have overall.

In theory ( very much in theory) the Planning Committee is not whipped. Labour Cllrs can say and vote on it any way they want. That is the theory.

Its why I miss the LD Cllrs- they were a minority and always were the most questioning.

The applicant ( normally a group of people ) also put the case for the application to committee.

A big proposal like this usually means a powepoint presentation and a model.

Fuck knows how doing this on the internet is supposed to work.

The only people who can speak are the objector, applicant.

The people watching can't. Though Ive seen a lively audience at meetings.

Worst bit is when the Officer goes on. Given the planners are recommending approval officers ( they turn up on mass ) are likely to go on at great length about how they worked with applicant on this proposal and got all sorts of benefits for the community etc.

Cllrs on committee then can ask questions to applicant and discuss the application amongst themselves.

They can suggest send it back, amend it ,

If Committee refuse approval the applicant can appeal. This is something the Council tries to avoid. So often the officer urge Committee to play safe.

In this case height is an consideratio which could imo be justification to refuse.

Vote is taken at end of discussion.

If it goes on to long the Chair will push it to a vote.

The odds are stacked against objectors if planning officer recommends approval.

 

[Gramsci]

Officers report is now online.

The report gives detail on why planning dept support recommending application.

Worth a look as it has the comments by major objectors.

Starts at page 27.

Glanced at it . Grim reading. Some good objections by Brixton Society , Historic England .

Officers argue height issue/ affect on Brixton visually can be overlooked by the public benefit this scheme brings.

Really awful officer report from what Ive seen of it.

 

[Gramsci]

Agenda for Planning Applications Committee on Tuesday 25 August 2020, 7.00 pm | Lambeth Council

moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk

 

[editor]

Officers report is now online.

The report gives detail on why planning dept support recommending application.

Worth a look as it has the comments by major objectors.

Starts at page 27.

Glanced at it . Grim reading. Some good objections by Brixton Society , Historic England .

Officers argue height issue/ affect on Brixton visually can be overlooked by the public benefit this scheme brings.

Really awful officer report from what Ive seen of it.

What fucking planet are these people on?

The height and massing of the development has been assessed in relation to its impact from a wide range of viewpoints and has been found to be satisfactory. An assessment of the current application’s impact on nearby heritage assets surrounding the site has identified less than substantial harm would result. This view is supported by both the GLA and Historic England who have also come to the same conclusion.

Here's what Historic England said:

Historic England do not consider that the harm arising from the proposal has clear and convincing justification as required and the proposal would not deliver any heritage benefits that would help to offset the harm.

 

[Gramsci]

What fucking planet are these people on?

Here's what Historic England said:

I need to try to read the report properly. But it seems particularly poor. Almost as though the Plannning dept is using the arguments of the applicant Hondo.

 

[Gramsci]

This is fucking awful.

Page 30 of the report posted above in post 122

Here is what the Planning Department say:

The application has been advertised as a departure from policy on the basis that it is not in accordance with
the Policy Q26, part (ii) ‘there is no adverse impact on the significance of strategic or local views or heritage
assets including their settings’; and site allocation ''Site 16 - Brixton Central (between the viaducts) SW9'' -
Design principles and key development consideration (x) ‘proposes low buildings to protect the amenity of
new residential development on Coldharbour Lane adjoining the site’ of the Lambeth Local Plan.

and:

Notwithstanding that the proposal represents a departure from Policy Q26 and Site Allocation 16 of the
Local Plan, the application scheme is considered not to conflict with policy in all other regards and as such,
as a policy compliant scheme it would deliver social, economic, environmental and sustainable benefits to
the community.

So the officer is taking a extremely flexible approach to the agreed planning guidelines. Ones the community was consulted on to guide development in Brixton.

Looks like Mr Cassidy the planning officer has forgotten who he is supposed to be working for. He isn't supposed to be working for the developer.

The Policies that the application departs from aren't minor things. They are important part of the Local Plan.

Officer follows Hondo saying benefits of scheme outweigh it being a departure application.

 

[Gramsci]

I'd say the decision by Planniing dept that the benefits of the scheme outweigh it departing from the Local Plan is a political decision by Planning. Who are taking it upon themselves to decide what is best for Brixton.

 

[wurlycurly]

What fucking planet are these people on?

Here's what Historic England said:

It's going to be a 19-storey monument to undemocratic local governance. At least there will be no hiding from it.

 

[equationgirl]

This is fucking awful.

Page 30 of the report posted above in post 122

Here is what the Planning Department say:



So the officer is taking a extremely flexible approach to the agreed planning guidelines. Ones the community was consulted on to guide development in Brixton.

Looks like Mr Cassidy the planning officer has forgotten who he is supposed to be working for. He isn't supposed to be working for the developer.

The Policies that the application departs from aren't minor things. They are important part of the Local Plan.

Officer follows Hondo saying benefits of scheme outweigh it being a departure application.

Have the supposed benefits been clearly described within the report? It's all very well saying that there will be benefits, but if they were real they would be listed.

 

[CH1]

I see the planning committtee is going to be on Microsoft Teams.
Why is this? How many people can access it?

I have an old XP machine which is quite happy on Zoom - so I am deeply disappointed to be even further disenfranchised as Teams will not even load on my PC.
Anybody got any suggestions - other than spending a month's pension on a new PC down at Curry's?

 

[Jimbeau]

I see the planning committtee is going to be on Microsoft Teams.
Why is this? How many people can access it?

I have an old XP machine which is quite happy on Zoom - so I am deeply disappointed to be even further disenfranchised as Teams will not even load on my PC.
Anybody got any suggestions - other than spending a month's pension on a new PC down at Curry's?

Teams is just a wrapper for lots of other Microsoft collaboration tools - chat, Sharepoint, Office 365, Skype, etc. To attend a meeting you can just open the link in a web browser rather than download the whole package. If you have a smartphone then there's an app too.

Do make sure you've got good anti-virus on that XP machine though. It hasn't been getting security updates since 2014 - as an operating system it's now old enough to vote!

 

[equationgirl]

I see the planning committtee is going to be on Microsoft Teams.
Why is this? How many people can access it?

I have an old XP machine which is quite happy on Zoom - so I am deeply disappointed to be even further disenfranchised as Teams will not even load on my PC.
Anybody got any suggestions - other than spending a month's pension on a new PC down at Curry's?

It's free and tends to hold up better than zoom to multiple people across different locations ime.

 

[Gramsci]

Have the supposed benefits been clearly described within the report? It's all very well saying that there will be benefits, but if they were real they would be listed.

Im reading through report and yes it does.

New public toilets.
Community Space
Affordable office space
New square

Not saying that this is enough to outweigh not being in accordance with the Local Plan.

Haven't read whole report yet.

Impression is as Ive being going through offices rebuttal of Historic England, Brixton Society , local residents objections is that as Planning dept say this is a "Departure Application". They agree with objectors who say height is not in line with Local Plan and the development causes harm to nearby Conservation area.

But in view of planning dept the community benefits they have got out of the developer outweigh all other valid criticisms of this proposal in Planning terms related to it departing from the Local Plan.

Which I strongly disagree with. Planning dept should not be viewing this application in that way.

 

[Gramsci]

Have the supposed benefits been clearly described within the report? It's all very well saying that there will be benefits, but if they were real they would be listed.

A cash strapped inner London Council is deparate for investment. Any investment to build infrastructure and create jobs. Its given the planning dept the nod to do deals with big developers like Hondo. Be really flexible and inventive with planning guidelines.

 

[equationgirl]

A cash strapped inner London Council is deparate for investment. Any investment to build infrastructure and create jobs. Its given the planning dept the nod to do deals with big developers like Hondo. Be really flexible and inventive with planning guidelines.

So I get that's the economic benefits, what are the social benefits? What are the community benefits? These are so-called benefits named time and time again that generally fail to materialise when the project is constructed. How many full time jobs will be created? How may permanent jobs? Are these retail or skilled trades?

I get that in lean times the planning department would rather a site being developed rather than not but the same names keep appearing.

ETA: cross posted about benefits

 

[editor]

Im reading through report and yes it does.

New public toilets.
Community Space
Affordable office space
New square

Would that be similar to the "community space" Lost in Brixton, I wonder...

And a 'new square'? Whoop-de-fucking-do.

 

[Gramsci]

So I get that's the economic benefits, what are the social benefits? What are the community benefits? These are so-called benefits named time and time again that generally fail to materialise when the project is constructed. How many full time jobs will be created? How may permanent jobs? Are these retail or skilled trades?

I get that in lean times the planning department would rather a site being developed rather than not but the same names keep appearing.

ETA: cross posted about benefits

I agree these are good questions.

On the Community benefits.

These are likely to be watered down once the development is up and running.

The officer is saying they will be written into planning agreement if the Planning Committee pass the application.

What happens at Planning Committee is that officer will recommend approval and also ask for delegated authority to finalise community benefits.

Which means it will be down to officers to do. With no more oversight from Cllrs.

I am starting to have an issue with this "delegated authority" way of working.

IMO the planning committee should be allowed to ask for officer to come back to get approval for agreement on community benefits.

 

[equationgirl]

Would that be similar to the "community space" Lost in Brixton, I wonder...

And a 'new square'? Whoop-de-fucking-do.

Does Brixton need more office space, given that there's a potential glut of office space in London already?

 

[Gramsci]

Would that be similar to the "community space" Lost in Brixton, I wonder...

And a 'new square'? Whoop-de-fucking-do.

On the new square.

Its correct that this is in the planning documents for the area.

My arguement is that Hondo bought the site with full knowledge that the Local Plan/ Brixton SPD had guidelines for how this site was to be developed.

The planning officer arguing that this "departure" ( height) should be allowed because the developer is , in effect , following the Local Plan / Brixton SPD in other aspects is not logical.

Developer buys site with knowledge of planning guidelines. So developer cannot imo be let off the hook buy arguing what is part of the Local Plan/Brixton SPD is a "community benefit" The whole point of Local planning policy is to stop this kind of thing. Horsetrading.

 

[Gramsci]

Does Brixton need more office space, given that there's a potential glut of office space in London already?

The MP Helen Hayes brought up issue of permitted development.

Under present planning rules if developer can't rent the office space they could change it to housing. Without need of affordable.

Officer concedes the point and says it will be written into application that it has to stay as office space.

But given appeals etc I do wonder how watertight that would be.

Given the economic situation and change in working patterns due to Covid I wonder if office space is needed now. If governemt will relax planning rules even further.

Developer was thinking of hotel on site at first pre Covid and then realised it would not get support so changed to office space.

 

[organicpanda]

The MP Helen Hayes brought up issue of permitted development.

Under present planning rules if developer can't rent the office space they could change it to housing. Without need of affordable.

Officer concedes the point and says it will be written into application that it has to stay as office space.

But given appeals etc I do wonder how watertight that would be.

Given the economic situation and change in working patterns due to Covid I wonder if office space is needed now. If governemt will relax planning rules even further.

Developer was thinking of hotel on site at first pre Covid and then realised it would not get support so changed to office space.

I think that is was all a front to have their hotel/flats and are gaming the system

 

[editor]

Fight the tower! Brixton activists launch campaign against the Hondo Enormo-Tower in Pope’s Road, Brixton

 

[ska invita]

Fight the tower! Brixton activists launch campaign against the Hondo Enormo-Tower in Pope’s Road, Brixton

good luck! though in my mind Londons done for on this issue - high blocks of flats are going up everywhere, dwarfing the previous beuilidngs and ruining the skylines

Bromley is now blighted with this

from that angle you cant tell how dwarfing it is - other than maybe looking at hte victorian terraces at the bottom, which are the norm around there


Kidrbooke has now got this - really fucking up the classic view from Blackheath by the way

as for Croydon

When this absolutely massive 68-storey skyscraper will be built in Croydon

One Lansdowne will the same height as Britain's second-tallest building

www.mylondon.news

.... Lewisham and Elephant also now fully blighted
THe City and Docklands obviously disgrace


Its all over as far as I can tell.
I blame Ken Livingstone, though it wouldve happened eventually i guess

Livingstone's towering legacy

The London mayor's attitude to planning has won him both friends and enemies

www.theguardian.com

 

[editor]

Excellent in-depth analysis here: Historic England slam Hondo Enormo-Tower’s ‘significant harmful visual impact’ on Brixton ahead of Lambeth Planning meeting

 

[Leon Kreitzman]

Historic England were distinctly underwhelmed by the whole YNTH design but the Planning Committee was not interested. This Council is shameless

 

[Gramsci]

I see the planning committtee is going to be on Microsoft Teams.
Why is this? How many people can access it?

I have an old XP machine which is quite happy on Zoom - so I am deeply disappointed to be even further disenfranchised as Teams will not even load on my PC.
Anybody got any suggestions - other than spending a month's pension on a new PC down at Curry's?

I cut and pasted the link from here

It worked on my Android tablet and Android phone. Downloaded the App.

looked up and requirements are here

Hardware requirements for Microsoft Teams - Microsoft Teams

In this article, you'll learn about the hardware requirements needed to install and run Microsoft Teams.

docs.microsoft.com

 

[CH1]

I cut and pasted the link from here

It worked on my Android tablet and Android phone. Downloaded the App.

looked up and requirements are here

Hardware requirements for Microsoft Teams - Microsoft Teams

In this article, you'll learn about the hardware requirements needed to install and run Microsoft Teams.

docs.microsoft.com

I did find that it offered an option like "view on web instead".
I await to see if that works on the night.

I hear one of our ward councillors is going to speak against the application.

 

[TopCat]

My April Fools just gave them ideas

Brixton Village to turn into a vibrant, late night ‘Club Hub’ with music pods, VIP rooms and artisan cocktail bars

Reminds me of how many mythical cop toys in 2001AD got developed and used by police.