Herne Hill news, chitter chatter and gossip

[shakespearegirl]

It could become a type of kite mark, like Buy British. Something you’d chose over the alternative for the benefit it gave to people/community/country... perhaps something you be prepared to pay a premium for

 

[discobastard]

What shakespearegirl said was "prioritise" business that pay Living Wage. Not cut them out. That is unrealistic.

As you are so interested in this subject Lidl is supermarket store in Brixton and Stockwell that pays Living Wage.

I take it you will use Lidl not Tescos in Acre Lane from now on?

I don't use Tescos in Acre Lane as Lidl is the supermarket alternative that pays Living Wage.

That is example of realistic option. I can prioritise using Lidl.

Fair enough. ‘Cut out’ is maybe the wrong phrase. Let’s say difficult choices for those that are principled.

I don’t live in Brixton I live in Tulse Hill and about 90% of my weekly shopping is done in the Co-op, who I know took steps to increase wages two years ago. They also have put quite a bit of funds into the Norwood Food Bank which I think is great.

It does seem that certain small startup businesses do however get a disproportionate amount of grief on here when discussing this kind of issue, while others get barely a mention.

A business in Brixton (beer thread) that *does* pay the LLW is being vilified for taking a minority investment that will allow it in turn to take on more local employees at presumably LLW rates. Just spotting some contradictions I’m trying to understand.

Can’t see anything too objectionable about that point. Maybe others can.

 

[discobastard]

Actually, sorry, I mistook you for alcopop which is understandable given that you often have much the same 'personalised' approach whenever responding to any discussion I'm involved in.

No worries.

Of course some of my responses are personalised. I’m responding to the views of others. Is that not ok?

 

[discobastard]

It could become a type of kite mark, like Buy British. Something you’d chose over the alternative for the benefit it gave to people/community/country... perhaps something you be prepared to pay a premium for

I genuinely think that’s a great idea. The challenge will always be the fact that it will undoubtedly come at a premium. Like green energy tariffs. But at least people will have a choice.

 

[editor]

It does seem that certain small startup businesses do however get a disproportionate amount of grief on here when discussing this kind of issue, while others get barely a mention.

Do they really? So which new small startup businesses have been given some sort of green card on this issue on these boards? And can you name them?

And let's talk about this "disproportionate amount of grief" comment. What is the nature of this "disproportionate amount of grief" that has supposedly been dished out to any business in this thread? Back up your claims please.

A business in Brixton (beer thread) that *does* pay the LLW is being vilified for taking a minority investment that will allow it in turn to take on more local employees at presumably LLW rates. Just spotting some contradictions I’m trying to understand.

Can’t see anything too objectionable about that point. Maybe others can.

Completely irrelevant. That discussion was about whether a business could still claim to be an independent brewery when they've flogged off 49% of their company to the second biggest brewery in the world, who have an annual revenue in the many billions. It's clearly an issue because one shop now refuses to stock their beer because they don't feel that they are truly independent.

No one criticised them for their pay rates because that wasn't the fucking topic under discussion.

(*the 49% is writ large because saying 'minority investment' paints an entirely different picture.)

 

[Gramsci]

It could become a type of kite mark, like Buy British. Something you’d chose over the alternative for the benefit it gave to people/community/country... perhaps something you be prepared to pay a premium for

I see what you mean but for me paying premium isn't always that feasible.

I also use the Phone Coop as my internet provider. They are accredited Living Wage employer. Have been for some time. They arent imo any more expensive than other big companies.

Same with Lidl. Its not that expensive compared to other big supermarkets.

Living Wage should not have to mean paying a premium. If the two companies above can do it why can't others?. One is small (Phone Coop) and one big (Lidl). They both are successful business.

Another small company I use is Skoob bookshop. A very small concern who pay Living Wage.

 

[Gramsci]

The challenge will always be the fact that it will undoubtedly come at a premium. Like green energy tariffs. But at least people will have a choice.

Wrong. See post above.

 

[Smick]

Same with Lidl. Its not that expensive compared to other big supermarkets.

I’ve always found Lidl to be quite a bit less expensive than the others. It’s where I do 90% of my shopping, the other 10% being at Waitrose when they’ve knocked down their prices on short date items. I believe that they treat their staff well also.

 

[discobastard]

Do they really? So which new small startup businesses have been given some sort of green card on this issue on these boards? And can you name them?

And let's talk about this "disproportionate amount of grief" comment. What is the nature of this "disproportionate amount of grief" that has supposedly been dished out to any business in this thread? Back up your claims please.

Completely irrelevant. That discussion was about whether a business could still claim to be an independent brewery when they've flogged off 49% of their company to the second biggest brewery in the world, who have an annual revenue in the many billions. It's clearly an issue because one shop now refuses to stock their beer because they don't feel that they are truly independent.

No one criticised them for their pay rates because that wasn't the fucking topic under discussion.

(*the 49% is writ large because saying 'minority investment' paints an entirely different picture.)

It all your thoughts are compartmentalised into different threads and every issue exists in isolation then you may have been doing this too long.

Let’s shut this discussion down and forget the complexities.

 

[discobastard]

Wrong. See post above.

Ok. Wrong in some cases. That’s fine!

 

[editor]

It all your thoughts are compartmentalised into different threads and every issue exists in isolation then you may have been doing this too long.

Let’s shut this discussion down and forget the complexities.

Why don't you address the points you just brought up?

You claimed that some some new start up small businesses have been given an easy ride here.
Well, which ones are they?

You also claimed that others had received a "disproportionate amount of grief".
Could you name them and give examples of all this "grief" they received please?

 

[discobastard]

Why don't you address the points you just brought up?

You claimed that some some new start up small businesses have been given an easy ride here.
Well, which ones are they?

You also claimed that others had received a "disproportionate amount of grief".
Could you name them and give examples of all this "grief" they received please?

Don’t worry. If you can’t remember all the small businesses on the Brixton board that have received significant grief then I can’t help you.

 

[editor]

Don’t worry. If you can’t remember all the small businesses on the Brixton board that have received significant grief then I can’t help you.

This is the Herne Hill thread. If you're unable to back up your earlier claims just say so.

 

[discobastard]

This is the Herne Hill thread. If you're unable to back up your earlier claims just say so.

Poor show.

 

[teuchter]

It could become a type of kite mark, like Buy British. Something you’d chose over the alternative for the benefit it gave to people/community/country...

Problem is, it doesn't necessarily capture how good an employer they are. The wage is only one part of how well staff are treated somewhere. What kind of rosters are they expected to work to, what other benefits do or don't they get, workload and so on.

 

[brixtonblade]

Problem is, it doesn't necessarily capture how good an employer they are. The wage is only one part of how well staff are treated somewhere. What kind of rosters are they expected to work to, what other benefits do or don't they get, workload and so on.

True , but I'd rather know than not.

 

[editor]

True , but I'd rather know than not.

I really can't see any possible objection to asking if a newly arrived business is paying the Living Wage or not. I'm not demanding people boycott the place, but it's good to see where they stand on this issue amongst all the on-trend PR guff and media that inevitably accompanies a new launch.

 

[shakespearegirl]

As I said earlier, it would be good to know if ALL businesses are paying LLW. Doesn't matter if they are new, old, local or national.

 

[editor]

As I said earlier, it would be good to know if ALL businesses are paying LLW. Doesn't matter if they are new, old, local or national.

You can look on their website and find out. You'll find it a VERY disappointingly short listing for central Herne Hill - as it not just two, both Oxfam bookshops (although that doesn't mean some businesses not on the scheme may not be paying the equivalent, or more, of course - although I'm not too hopeful on that score) .

 

[snowy_again]

That will only tell you people who have registered their business as a LLW provider on that site.

The same lack of reporting applies to Brixton, where the 4 banks are recorded, and then the UK & London Community Foundations are obviously there. Pretty much nothing else - in an area where there's a higher density of SMEs and larger businesses.

So basically, that data means nothing.

 

[editor]

That will only tell you people who have registered their business as a LLW provider on that site.

The same lack of reporting applies to Brixton, where the 4 banks are recorded, and then the UK & London Community Foundations are obviously there. Pretty much nothing else - in an area where there's a higher density of SMEs and larger businesses.

So basically, that data means nothing.

Why wouldn't you register if you were a LLW provider?

 

[snowy_again]

Perhaps you don't know there's a scheme/site to record it on, perhaps you don't have the time to be constantly updating websites, perhaps its less important than a hundred and one other things...

The site only records 1600 london businesses or charities etc who pay it, which is less than the actual number

 

[shakespearegirl]

To be fair, my business pays the LLW and I haven't got around to registering yet! We aren't a consumer facing business though and it is onn my long list of things to do.

 

[editor]

Perhaps you don't know there's a scheme/site to record it on, perhaps you don't have the time to be constantly updating websites, perhaps its less important than a hundred and one other things...

The site only records 1600 london businesses or charities etc who pay it, which is less than the actual number

What is the actual number?

 

[Ms T]

You can look on their website and find out. You'll find it a VERY disappointingly short listing for central Herne Hill - as it not just two, both Oxfam bookshops (although that doesn't mean some businesses not on the scheme may not be paying the equivalent, or more, of course - although I'm not too hopeful on that score) .

The Oxfam shops are run by volunteers, so it’s presumably Oxfam in general that pays the LLW.

 

[snowy_again]

What is the actual number?

Sorry - a bit like the people who don't have the time to register their LLW on the LLW site, I've not got the time to dig through and find the exact number again.

Their twitter's here if you want to ask them: Living Wage Foundation (@LivingWageUK) on Twitter

 

[alex_]

Problem is, it doesn't necessarily capture how good an employer they are. The wage is only one part of how well staff are treated somewhere. What kind of rosters are they expected to work to, what other benefits do or don't they get, workload and so on.

It’s a pretty good start though.

I’d imagine on the Venn diagram of awful employers and LLW payers there isn’t much intersection.

There is obviously a big difference between awful employers and awful companies.

Alex

 

[Gramsci]

The Oxfam shops are run by volunteers, so it’s presumably Oxfam in general that pays the LLW.

Up to a point. The criticism I have of sections of the voluntary sector is that not all are what I would call volunteers.

I know someone ( unemployed) whose worked "voluntarily" in various charity shops or get his benefits sanctioned. This includes Oxfam.

Shop managers are often paid workers.

There is grey area in charity sector of who really qualifies as "voluntary" worker.

 

[Gramsci]

The Oxfam shops are run by volunteers, so it’s presumably Oxfam in general that pays the LLW.

And good thing those volunteers put all that work in so Oxfam workers can fund party life in other countries.

 

[Gramsci]

Problem is, it doesn't necessarily capture how good an employer they are. The wage is only one part of how well staff are treated somewhere. What kind of rosters are they expected to work to, what other benefits do or don't they get, workload and so on.

If a business wants to become an accredited Living Wage employer they will ask about for example use of zero hours contracts.

Accreditation does not include any specific requirements on contract types. However, we will not accredit if there are any concerns about exploitative working practices.

While zero hours contracts can provide flexibility that works for employers and employees alike, it has been widely reported that the use of zero hours contracts has increased, and in some cases they are being abused. We advise that our employers continually review and manage the use of zero hours contracts and discuss whether there are more suitable options available with staff. Please look to the CIPD's guidance on best practice.

FAQs | Living Wage Foundation

Its a difficult balancing act. The Living Wage Foundation is a NGO that's been successful campaigning group.

How far should they go in adding additional rights to workers?

Keeping it straight forward to a Living Wage for employees money per hour is right tactic imo.

Its not something that can be easily disputed. Its rational estimate of what an hours wages should be to live a life not just survive. To be able to participate in society not spend all ones time worrying about how to pay basic bills.

Even then I've seen it disputed here. Ie t the Living Wage Foundation must have a political agenda or that people should talk to employers however "distasteful" that is.

Living Wage Foundation simple straightforward message that hourly pay should be set at rationally set amount shows what right wing bollox any criticism of it is. Right wing bollix masquerading as man of the world fairness.