Hating the police

[coley]

It is customary to give more than one source when making arguments. A single article, especially in a complex topic such as energy, doesn't adequately represent all the facts, particularly as the article you have quoted is from the Royal Geological Society's magazine and is an opinion piece, not a report of a scientific study.

Energy can be competitive and green, it's not a case of choosing between the two.

In the long term possibly, however in the short term we will have to make a choice between our emissions targets and our energy security unless CCT makes an unexpected breakthrough

 

[equationgirl]

Renewables subsidies do not come from central taxation but as an addition to consumer energy bills.
Subsidies for offshore wind are likely to remain at their current levels at least until 2015 under the changes to be announced on Thursday, but after that date they will be gradually reduced. Subsidies for onshore wind will be cut sooner, because the price of onshore turbines has come down in recent years, and rising fossil fuel prices have made wind power more competitive.
Companies generating energy from biomass - such as wood and waste products - will receive clarification on the level of subsidy they are likely to receive, which a Whitehall source said would be enough to ensure that they are economically viable.
However, the review of the feed-in-tarrif - a mechanism for subsidising small solar installations -
Good enough for the guardian.....................

---which you've failed to quote as a source.

Use subsidy if you like. I'll continue using the words the industry uses

 

[equationgirl]

In the long term possibly, however in the short term we will have to make a choice between our emissions targets and our energy security unless CCT makes an unexpected breakthrough

CCT??

 

[coley]

CCT??

Carbon capture technology

 

[Meltingpot]

CCT??

Clean coal technology (just googled for it).

^^

Oh shit, that's what I get for trying to be a clever dick.

 

[equationgirl]

Carbon capture technology

CCT is not the abbreviation used in the industry. It's more common to use CCS 'carbon capture and storage' technology.

 

[coley]

CCT is not the abbreviation used in the industry. It's more common to use CCS 'carbon capture and storage' technology.

I was referring to the various technologies involved in CC&S

 

[equationgirl]

I was referring to the various technologies involved in CC&S

CCS (no &) is technology based, there's no additional acronym required. There have already been several breakthroughs and improvements happen al lthe time.

What's really hampering development of CCS is a suitable large-scale development site now the tories pulled the funding for Longannet.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A mix of all three, there are moves afoot to sell the power station and convert it to biofuel but they are after the renewable subsidy and it wont save the smelter

Is the "renewables subsidy" anything like (or costing similar to) the "subsidy" on nuclear generation?

E2A:

Biofuel or biomass?

 

[equationgirl]

Is the "renewables subsidy" anything like (or costing similar to) the "subsidy" on nuclear generation?

E2A:

Biofuel or biomass?

I think it must be biomass - currently no Renewables Obligation Certificate/subsidy/whatever you want to call it available for biofuel production (which is logical).

Not sure if it would be 100% biomass or a mixture of coal & biomass (known as 'cofiring').

 

[coley]

CCS (no &) is technology based, there's no additional acronym required. There have already been several breakthroughs and improvements happen al lthe time.

What's really hampering development of CCS is a suitable large-scale development site now the tories pulled the funding for Longannet.

Why do I feel you will know exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
it looks like it was more than the tories to blame for longannet and according to what I have read the £ 1 billion is still available for research, and while CC&S would be a major step in improving our energy outlook the problem remains, it is, like wave and tidal, still a long way off commercial operation.
So, in the meantime do we sacrifice emissions targets for the sake of a secure and competitive energy supply?

 

[coley]

Is the "renewables subsidy" anything like (or costing similar to) the "subsidy" on nuclear generation?

E2A:

Biofuel or biomass?

Biomass I believe, does nuclear recieve a subsidy? I thought one of the main stumbling blocks to new build nuclear was the absence of a clearly defined subsidy

 

[stethoscope]

In a desperate attempt to bring this thread back to hating the pigs, two items on the beeb site today...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-16383331

Met Police corruption: Officers allowed to resign

More than 130 Metropolitan Police (Met) officers were allowed to resign rather than facing misconducts panels over the last year, figures have shown.

Another 43 were sacked over the same period, the Press Association found.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) previously said forces failed to respond to "far too many" complaints about officers.

However, the head of Scotland Yard standards said it was actually more practical to let some people quit.

Commander Peter Spindler, who heads the force's directorate of professional standards, also said complaints about Met officers had fallen by 9% in a year.

This was the result of "a lot of hard work", he added.

'Slow' process

Mr Spindler said he hoped people understood that with more than 50,000 employees, there would be corruption in the force.

"We don't live in a perfect world," he said.

In many cases "it's actually more pragmatic to let them resign", Mr Spindler added.

In October, a PC who worked as an emergency phone operator was sacked for failing to respond to 141 "potentially dangerous" calls, while another officer indecently assaulted a "vulnerable" teenager.

Last month, two officers were dismissed for beating up three men after a car chase, and a trainee detective was sacked after sexually assaulting a vulnerable woman.

A centralised unit has been created in Earls Court, west London, to investigate staff suspected of wrongdoing.

But the disciplinary process was "slow" and officers awaiting hearings were "sitting there" at the taxpayers' expense in the meantime, said Det Ch Supt Richard Heselden, another anti-corruption detective.

"It's cheaper and quicker to get them out of the force," he said.

and...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16383538

900 police and community officers have criminal record, data shows

Home Office guidance says police officers should have "proven integrity" More than 900 serving police officers and community support officers have a criminal record, official figures show.

Most are for traffic offences but there are also convictions for burglary, drug supplying, causing death by careless driving, robbery and domestic violence.

Senior officers include two detective chief inspectors and a chief inspector, all from the Metropolitan Police.

The figures were released by 33 of the 43 forces in England and Wales after Freedom of Information requests.

Dangerous dog

The statistics, obtained by the Press Association, show that at least 944 serving officers have a conviction, with some forces unable to provide figures for offences committed before joining the police.

Cambridgeshire, City of London, Gloucestershire, Northamptonshire, South Wales, West Yorkshire, Warwickshire and Wiltshire did not provide figures on the grounds of cost.

Cleveland did not reply to the request and Durham only provided partial information.

Britain's largest force, the Metropolitan Police, has more than 34,000 police and community support officers. It said 356 officers and 41 support officers had convictions.

It was followed by Kent (49 convictions), Devon and Cornwall (44), Essex (42), South Yorkshire (35), Hampshire (31) and West Midlands (27).

The convictions include:

• Devon and Cornwall - Pc convicted of burglary as a teenager
• Essex - Special constable convicted of stealing car number plates, putting them on another vehicle and obtaining petrol without paying
• Hertfordshire - Sergeant convicted of dangerous driving
• Kent - Pc convicted of perverting the course of justice in 1998
• Merseyside - Five officers convicted of assault
• Norfolk - Pc convicted of causing death by careless driving
• North Wales - Officer convicted of forgery
• Staffordshire - Pc convicted of keeping a dangerous dog
• Surrey - Detective constable convicted of obstructing police officers

The Home Office issued guidelines in 2003 saying that police officers should have "proven integrity" because they are vulnerable to pressure from criminals to reveal information.

The guidance says forces should reject applicants with convictions for serious offences unless there are "exceptionally compelling circumstances".

The Met Police careers website says a conviction or caution "does not necessary bar" potential applicants from joining the service.

"A candidate's age at the time of offence, the number of years that have elapsed (normally 5 years must have elapsed for recordable offences) and the nature of the offence is taken into account before a decision is made," it adds.

 

[coley]

"A candidate's age at the time of offence, the number of years that have elapsed (normally 5 years must have elapsed for recordable offences) and the nature of the offence is taken into account before a decision is made," it adds.
Sounds fair.

But the disciplinary process was "slow" and officers awaiting hearings were "sitting there" at the taxpayers' expense in the meantime, said Det Ch Supt Richard Heselden, another anti-corruption detective."It's cheaper and quicker to get them out of the force," he said.
Sounds like common sense, provided they are followed up if they have committed a criminal offence.

 

[equationgirl]

Why do I feel you will know exactly how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?
it looks like it was more than the tories to blame for longannet and according to what I have read the £ 1 billion is still available for research, and while CC&S would be a major step in improving our energy outlook the problem remains, it is, like wave and tidal, still a long way off commercial operation.
So, in the meantime do we sacrifice emissions targets for the sake of a secure and competitive energy supply?

Why do I I feel that, if I did know how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, you wouldn't take any notice of any answer I gave?

We're not talking about research here, we're talking about the next step in proving the technology at a commercial level, which is the provision of a suitable demonstration site.

I've already stated that I do not think the UK has to sacrifice meeting emissions targets at the expense of energy supply, but what it will take is more commitment from the government to overhaul the entire energy industry, in terms of building new power stations, grid and energy storage upgrading, technology etc

Shale gas exploitation has been estimated at £32bn, according to a report from the Tyndall Centre for Climate Research, commissioned by the Co-operative Group:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/23/shale-gas-climate-change-targets

£32bn would buy approximately 2,300 offshore wind turbines accordinlg to the article (note: I'm a bit sceptical of how they've arrived at this number, and of what size turbines these are supposed to be), but far fewer jobs are likely to be created by shale gas exploration. For this government supporting an industry that could provide relatively few jobs would be disastrous in light of their promises in this area.

 

[equationgirl]

"A candidate's age at the time of offence, the number of years that have elapsed (normally 5 years must have elapsed for recordable offences) and the nature of the offence is taken into account before a decision is made," it adds.
Sounds fair.

But the disciplinary process was "slow" and officers awaiting hearings were "sitting there" at the taxpayers' expense in the meantime, said Det Ch Supt Richard Heselden, another anti-corruption detective."It's cheaper and quicker to get them out of the force," he said.
Sounds like common sense, provided they are followed up if they have committed a criminal offence.

I think you're missing the point on this one, coley.

There shouldn't be any serving police officers with criminal records, no matter how minor the offence.

If I can lose my job, without notice or pay, for being convicted of similar offences, then they should too.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think you're missing the point on this one, coley.

There shouldn't be any serving police officers with criminal records, no matter how minor the offence.

If I can lose my job, without notice or pay, for being convicted of similar offences, then they should too.

i've long been of the opinion that the same discipline which obtained among the metropolitan police in its early years should be reinstilled to the modern force.

 

[equationgirl]

i've long been of the opinion that the same discipline which obtained among the metropolitan police in its early years should be reinstilled to the modern force.

Not being in the met area, I'm not sure what was instilled in them in the early days, could you give a brief summary please?

 

[equationgirl]

Also, when you look at the list of offences from that article, the examples given aren't exactly minor things: dangerous driving, perverting the course of justice, assault, forgery??!!

 

[Pickman's model]

Not being in the met area, I'm not sure what was instilled in them in the early days, could you give a brief summary please?

sacking for lots of offences, with thousands being ejected from the force in its first few years for drunkeness alone. no talking on the beat. things like that.

 

[Meltingpot]

I think you're missing the point on this one, coley.

There shouldn't be any serving police officers with criminal records, no matter how minor the offence.

If I can lose my job, without notice or pay, for being convicted of similar offences, then they should too.

Depends on the offence EG. For example.some lads a year up from me at school got a bit "over-excited" when celebrating their A level results, and one was caught with his leg through a car windscreen. They ended up in court and at least one was fined. I don't think that should be held against them in later life, no matter what job they went on to do.

 

[equationgirl]

sacking for lots of offences, with thousands being ejected from the force in its first few years for drunkeness alone. no talking on the beat. things like that.

I like that ethos

 

[equationgirl]

Depends on the offence EG. For example.some lads a year up from me at school got a bit "over-excited" when celebrating their A level results, and one was caught with his leg through a car windscreen. They ended up in court and at least one was fined. I don't think that should be held against them in later life, no matter what job they went on to do.

But police uphold the law, they have to have integrity.

There's a big difference between a youthful indiscretion and a crime committed whilst a serving police officer.

 

[Meltingpot]

But police uphold the law, they have to have integrity.

Of course.

There's a big difference between a youthful indiscretion and a crime committed whilst a serving police officer.

Agreed, but it wasn't clear from your post that you wished to make that distinction.

 

[equationgirl]

Agreed, but it wasn't clear from your post that you wished to make that distinction.

My apologies. I will try to be clearer, I was actually quite appalled at some of the convictions.

 

[Meltingpot]

My apologies. I will try to be clearer, I was actually quite appalled at some of the convictions.

Not a problem.

 

[coley]

I think you're missing the point on this one, coley.

There shouldn't be any serving police officers with criminal records, no matter how minor the offence.

If I can lose my job, without notice or pay, for being convicted of similar offences, then they should too.

While I wouldnt employ anyone with a sex or violence conviction I would try to keep an open mind as far as other offences were concerned that and the time scale involved however anyone I do employ who commits a criminal offence is gone, why should the police be different, why ruin someones life because, as MP puts it, a youthful indescretion?

 

[coley]

Why do I I feel that, if I did know how many angels could dance on the head of a pin, you wouldn't take any notice of any answer I gave?

We're not talking about research here, we're talking about the next step in proving the technology at a commercial level, which is the provision of a suitable demonstration site.

I've already stated that I do not think the UK has to sacrifice meeting emissions targets at the expense of energy supply, but what it will take is more commitment from the government to overhaul the entire energy industry, in terms of building new power stations, grid and energy storage upgrading, technology etc

Shale gas exploitation has been estimated at £32bn, according to a report from the Tyndall Centre for Climate Research, commissioned by the Co-operative Group:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/nov/23/shale-gas-climate-change-targets

£32bn would buy approximately 2,300 offshore wind turbines accordinlg to the article (note: I'm a bit sceptical of how they've arrived at this number, and of what size turbines these are supposed to be), but far fewer jobs are likely to be created by shale gas exploration. For this government supporting an industry that could provide relatively few jobs would be disastrous in light of their promises in this area.

Regarding the pinhead, of course I would believe you provided you used a competent industry source.
However regarding CC&S, although the technology exists it is very expensive in use with some processes using up to 40% of the power stations output, now how does this country compete with other countries who just disregard emmissions controls, or in the case of Germany, just cheat?

 

[ViolentPanda]

"A candidate's age at the time of offence, the number of years that have elapsed (normally 5 years must have elapsed for recordable offences) and the nature of the offence is taken into account before a decision is made," it adds.
Sounds fair.

But the disciplinary process was "slow" and officers awaiting hearings were "sitting there" at the taxpayers' expense in the meantime, said Det Ch Supt Richard Heselden, another anti-corruption detective."It's cheaper and quicker to get them out of the force," he said.
Sounds like common sense, provided they are followed up if they have committed a criminal offence.

Experience tells me that the "following up" rarely happens. It's usually part of the quid pro quo (along with their pension) that coppers get for resigning.

 

[coley]

Experience tells me that the "following up" rarely happens. It's usually part of the quid pro quo (along with their pension) that coppers get for resigning.

Well that is one of the reasons the IPCC exists is it not? to combat corruption?