Hatboy's letter in Evening Standard

[aurora green]

load of pants...

St Agnes - well that's a shame, really, but it had been swamped by crack dealers operating without any fear of arrest for a while, as anyone living there will testify.

I'm sorry but that is a load of pants.

 

[Belushi]

Why is that - because I detest being pestered in Brixton town centre by idiots hissing "skunk... coke...." ?

I don't mind that, its when they insist on calling me 'Biggie' i get pissed off

 

[Donna Ferentes]

What I could never tolerate was the drug-dealers round the back of my place never offering to sell me anything in two and a half years. What's wrong with me?

 

[rennie]

What I could never tolerate was the drug-dealers round the back of my place never offering to sell me anything in two and a half years. What's wrong with me?

they know their market.

 

[IntoStella]

Right to reply

HB has asked me to post up a response from him, which is fair enough as we are discussing him and his letter.

I hope people read what I really said in my letter, "not all dealers are aggressive" - I'm not saying they are all OK or that there isn't a major crack dealing problem. I am saying that I'm sick of the blanket condemnation.

People will misunderstand or think my letter indicates some naivety in that area. I wish I'd made that part clearer really. Try getting an unedited letter in a newspaper - or an article in a magazine - and then you'd know it doesn't always come out exactly as you'd wish, especially if you are not a person people have heard of.

Nevertheless, I know and have known various "dealers" and I have a lot of empathy for some who are struggling in their lives at the lower level of both the crack and cannabis trades. I don't mean buying drugs from them either. I mean when I was a more night time person I met a lot of people on the street and some of the people others regard as "scum" were people who looked out for me when I was at my lowest.

Currently a close friend is addicted to crack and that is very painful for me to watch. He knows exactly what happens in Electric Avenue, but also supports me in pointing out that NOT ALL dealers are bad people. "Dealer" is not the summation of a man and the principle of not dehumanising these people is a good principle. Plus there is great hypocrisy about the drugs trade from local to international level.

The point about "professional classes" is this. I'm not against people doing well for themselves or change in Brixton. What I am against is people (generally the more privileged white) who actually live both race and class separatist lives - often surrounded by poverty - but think they are entirely beyond reproach or blame for London's divisive problems.

It is the above type who complain the loudest about the least offence and are listened to the most by the authorities. And who also have the least understanding of exclusion. They are, after all, the least likely to be excluded in the UK.

Paul Bakalite

 

[editor]

I agree with a lot of what hatboy originally said, but I'm afraid I'm unable to muster up any sympathy for "struggling" crack dealers.

 

[Dubversion]

I agree with a lot of what hatboy originally said, but I'm afraid I'm unable to muster up any sympathy for "struggling" crack dealers.

depends why they're doing it. can you really not see how somebody could end up in that position? i'm not condoning it, i just think it's folly to try and make out these people are uniformly evil and born that way.

 

[Pickman's model]

I agree with a lot of what hatboy originally said, but I'm afraid I'm unable to muster up any sympathy for "struggling" crack dealers.

too much competition, in't it? of course some people are going to go to the wall, and perhaps they should consider an alternative trade. or diversify.

 

[kea]

i have sympathy for people who are struggling in their lives and turn to dealing
that doesn't in any way excuse what they chose to do, mind.
i just hope that i never find myself in such desperately grim circumstances as those people clearly have.


good reply from hatboy.

 

[editor]

depends why they're doing it. can you really not see how somebody could end up in that position? i'm not condoning it, i just think it's folly to try and make out these people are uniformly evil and born that way.

I haven't used the word 'evil'. I just can't muster any sympathy for a 'poor' crack dealer failing to shift enough units - but maybe that's got something to do with me being smashed in the face and randomly attacked by two of his/her customers.

 

[Pickman's model]

i'd have thought you were more likely to have met a couple of customers of one of the more successful entrepreneurs.

a smack in the face off a crackie's still not right, tho'.

 

[editor]

i'd have thought you were more likely to have met a couple of customers of one of the more successful entrepreneurs.

I didn't really get chance to ask them about the financial status of their supplier.

 

[Dubversion]

I haven't used the word 'evil'. I just can't muster any sympathy for a 'poor' crack dealer failing to shift enough units - but maybe that's got something to do with me being smashed in the face and randomly attacked by two of his/her customers.

unless you're talking about a specific dealer, you've lost me.

Hatboy didn't mention crack dealers struggling to sell, he talked about people struggling in their lives who were crack dealers. i think you've muddled all that up.


there's a world of difference between the big dealers / suppliers - who i'm sure are all the bling 'n' beemer clichés - and the the poor fuckers out there on the street who are as much a victim of the bastards at the end as regular crackheads

 

[DaveCinzano]

depends why they're doing it. can you really not see how somebody could end up in that position? i'm not condoning it, i just think it's folly to try and make out these people are uniformly evil and born that way.

i agree. i think hatboy's reply above expands on that far better than the constraints of the original published letter allowed. i certainly don't get the sense that he's arguing that 'dealers' are some sort of modern urban role model, more that it is a tragedy that people get into that position.

 

[editor]

Hatboy didn't mention crack dealers struggling to sell, he talked about people struggling in their lives who were crack dealers. i think you've muddled all that up.

I'm obviously saddened that they've reached that point in their lives and hope that they could be helped to sort themselves out*, but I really do generally find it hard to muster any sympathy for crack dealers**, whether they be dealing from the window of a darkened BMW or on a Coldharbour Lane street corner.

Sorry, but that's how it is for me. Maybe the smack in the face has turned me illogically anti-dealer.

(*and I'm happy for my taxes to be spent on meaningful rehabilitiation
** there will, of course, be specific cases that deserve sympathy - I'm talking generally here, from my own experience)

 

[Blagsta]

I believe HB wrote "empathy", not "sympathy". There is a difference.

 

[editor]

I believe HB wrote "empathy", not "sympathy". There is a difference.

Ooops! That'll teach me to try and quickly fire off a reply while I was working on something else!

 

[Dubversion]

** there will, of course, be specific cases that deserve sympathy - I'm talking generally here, from my own experience)

which is EXACTLY what Hatboy said: that blanket condemnation doesn't work.

 

[editor]

which is EXACTLY what Hatboy said: that blanket condemnation doesn't work.

Oy! You! Back off! I've already said that I'm not payng attention here so I don't need you rubbing my red face in my half-cocked comments anymore, innit?

 

[Dubversion]

Oy! You! Back off! I've already said that I'm not payng attention here so I don't need you rubbing my red face in my half-cocked comments anymore, innit?

ok, i'll let you off then

 

[pk]

cut

 

[pk]

I'm sorry but that is a load of pants.

Is it?

http://society.guardian.co.uk/communities/comment/0,16289,1654644,00.html

 

[aurora green]

Is it?

http://society.guardian.co.uk/communities/comment/0,16289,1654644,00.html

Did you actually know anyone who lived on St.Agnes or have you based your entire opinion of the place on one questionable article in the Guardian?

Because I have known quite a lot of St Agnes residents over the years, and your tale of the place being over run with crack, is the first I've heard of it.

Lambeth systematically destroyed a community and you're trying to say that it's ok, because they were all on crack.

Offensive and uninformed.

 

[pk]

Did you actually know anyone who lived on St.Agnes or have you based your entire opinion of the place on one questionable article in the Guardian?

Because I have known quite a lot of St Agnes residents over the years, and your tale of the place being over run with crack, is the first I've heard of it.

Lambeth systematically destroyed a community and you're trying to say that it's ok, because they were all on crack.

Offensive and uninformed.

I don't and never have supported the kicking of people out of their homes midwinter, a week before Xmas - in fact I expressed disgust at the very notion as soon as I heard about it.

But if you're saying there were no crack dealers operating openly both indoors and out on the street - your opinions differs sharply from those I have heard who live in the area.

No, it's not fair the decent innocent residents were victimised, and I think it would be poetic should Keith Fuckwitt be burglarised on Christmas Eve considering his stupid comments.

But if you're looking for something to blame, it's the crack dealing, in the opinion of people I trust. Unfortunately they'll move in where they can do business, bringing heat on top for people just trying to get along.
As well you know.

I wonder if the professionals Hatboy seems to single out for particular ire who lived there enjoyed being harassed by aggressive dealers on the way home?

 

[Giles]

I wonder if the professionals Hatboy seems to single out for particular ire who lived there enjoyed being harassed by aggressive dealers on the way home?

Oh, but in his opinion they should realise that they are not beyond reproach for London's divisive problems, so they probably asked for it, eh?

Giles..

 

[netbob]

Originally Posted by Hatboy
I hope people read what I really said in my letter, "not all dealers are aggressive" - I'm not saying they are all OK or that there isn't a major crack dealing problem. I am saying that I'm sick of the blanket condemnation...........

Excelent reply.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Yup.

 

[Santi-Panchita]

Your opinions on Brixton have no relevance.

Now this riles me.

My great grand parents, my gran and her kids were born and bred in Brixton. I - incidentally - was born in the sticks but moved to Brixton in my teens. I left after ten years precisely because

a. gentrification pushed up prices beyond my means
b. i had enough off of being threatened by dealers on me way home

....so who are you to say that my (or anybody else's) opinions dont count? Do we have to be in your club to have a valid opinion or to be able to express an opinion?

 

[thestraightman]

Hatboy.
I wanted to insult you, now I miss you
Come back ya bas

 

[pk]

cut