Hatboy's letter in Evening Standard

[Blagsta]

He has an article on the IWCA website too. Good on him.

 

[Bob]

Imperialist? Err lets see:

Originally written by Wikipedia
Imperialism is a policy of extending control or authority over foreign entities as a means of acquisition and/or maintenance of empires, either through direct territorial conquest or through indirect methods of exerting control on the politics and/or economy of other countries. The term is often used to describe the policy of a country in maintaining colonies and dominance over distant lands, regardless of whether the country calls itself an empire.

Insofar as 'imperialism' might be used to refer to an intellectual position, it would imply the belief that the acquisition and maintenance of empires is a positive good, probably combined with an assumption of cultural or other such superiority inherent to imperial power. See The White Man's Burden.

Imperialism draws heavy criticism on the grounds that historically it has been frequently employed for economic exploitation in which the imperialist power makes use of other countries as sources of raw materials and cheap labor, shaping their economies to suit its own interests and keeping their people in poverty. When imperialism is accompanied by overt military conquest, it is also seen as a violation of freedom and human rights.

In recent years, there has also been a trend to criticise imperialism not at an economic or political level, but at a simply cultural level, particularly the widespread global influence of American culture - see cultural imperialism. Some dispute this extension, however, on the grounds that it is highly subjective (to differentiate between mutual interaction and undue influence) and also applied selectively (hamburgers being imperialist and black tea not). The debate continues.

Not so sure about that.

 

[innit]

Am I the only person who didn't think it was a very good letter? Maybe as a man, Hatboy can't appreciate that women might actually feel threatened or frightened by being approached by men lurking in the shadows late at night, rather than inconvenienced. I also think it is rather moot to claim that 'professionals' would be the only people who might rather not be offered drugs on the street. He seems to conflate the issues of street dealing and St Agnes Place very conveniently... personally I don't think that arresting street drug dealers is an assault on difference or diversity (Political Correctness gone mad? )

 

[Ms T]

Am I the only person who didn't think it was a very good letter? Maybe as a man, Hatboy can't appreciate that women might actually feel threatened or frightened by being approached by men lurking in the shadows late at night, rather than inconvenienced. I also think it is rather moot to claim that 'professionals' would be the only people who might rather not be offered drugs on the street. He seems to conflate the issues of street dealing and St Agnes Place very conveniently... personally I don't think that arresting street drug dealers is an assault on difference or diversity (Political Correctness gone mad? )

I agree. And there are plenty of people on the boards who are far from being NIMBYs or "yuppies" who are saying that the drug dealing problem is out of control at the moment.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Am I the only person who didn't think it was a very good letter? Maybe as a man, Hatboy can't appreciate that women might actually feel threatened or frightened by being approached by men lurking in the shadows late at night, rather than inconvenienced.

This was something that I pointed out to him quite a while ago actually. He's a tall man with a deep voice and didn't really grasp that a woman can be both intimidated and indeed actively harrassed by a lot of the dealers, as indeed I have been, as have my children. I think he thought it was down to my attitude and unwillingness to engage.

 

[tarannau]

I agree. And there are plenty of people on the boards who are far from being NIMBYs or "yuppies" who are saying that the drug dealing problem is out of control at the moment.

To be fair, there are also plenty of people who don't think that the problem has escalated that much - in many ways, on the side streets at least, it's much the same crews that I've seen for many, many years in the same place. Which is perhaps why I objected so strongly to ERG's and the anti Brighton Terrace centre folks for their near hysterical hyperbole about the sutuation. Guff like there's now a needle disposal box, so our kids aren't safe any more...

The exception, for me at least, is the centre, where those annoying whistling tossers seem to be growing ever more prominent and blatant. And to be honest those guys aren't exactly lurking in the shadows - they're far too much in your face for my liking.

 

[Ms T]

To be fair, there are also plenty of people who don't think that the problem has escalated that much - in many ways, on the side streets at least, it's much the same crews that I've seen for many, many years in the same place. Which is perhaps why I objected so strongly to ERG's and the anti Brighton Terrace centre folks for their near hysterical hyperbole about the sutuation. Guff like there's now a needle disposal box, so our kids aren't safe any more...

The exception, for me at least, is the centre, where those annoying whistling tossers seem to be growing ever more prominent and blatant. And to be honest those guys aren't exactly lurking in the shadows - they're far too much in your face for my liking.

Fair enough. I'm thinking mainly of the residents of Rushcroft Rd, whose lives are being made a misery by drug dealers and crack addicts. I live out in the sticks of SE24 now ( ), but on the occasions when I've been to the Ritzy and walked home via Saltoun, I've been struck by the number of dealers who emerge from the shadows to see if you're a likely customer or not. It was not as bad as that when I lived on Kellett a couple of years ago now.

 

[Mrs Magpie]

Yes, and both you and me, Ms T, have been approached by blokes looking for prostitutes which at best is annoying and at worst really frightening (I have been followed right down the street by the really persistent till I did the unpredictable and aggressively deranged old bag routine).

 

[tarannau]

Rushcroft is a tough one - it definitely feels a little lawless down there. I can't say it's a pleasure to meet go to friends' houses there late at night. There again it's not exactly a place you stumble down easily either - I'd be more than happy if the police would concentrate their efforts on the more chaotic unfortunates down there than on more opportunistic kiddies buying fake drugs outside the station.

I always felt safe on Saltoun to be honest, probably because I lived there for a fair old while. The older guys there are sound, although I reckon they struggle to contain some of the rowdier young ones. The only time they ever tried to really sell to me was on the rare occasions I wore a suit - everyone would approach me before they recognised my face.

Strangely enough I always found Brixton Hill a little more foreboding late at night. As Ms M suggests, female friends used to get hassled regularly by kerb crawlers, whilst there were plenty of lurkers to discomfort you.

 

[editor]

Somerleyton Road at night. The only street in London I won't walk down at night and I'm a stubborn bastard.

 

[dogmatique]

Whilst I find the in your face in the open dealing unacceptable, what I find most offensive are the white, middle class tossers who think it's perfectly fine to hop off the bus / tube, score weed in front of families waiting for the bus, and then fuck off into the night to their nice cosy bolt holes.

If they didn't buy it, the dealers wouldn't be there.

 

[articletwo]

Why does the response of the people of Brixton to illegal drug dealing depend on their class? Is it really the case that the non-professional classes don't feel the same? Sounds like the last gasp of class warfare to me.

And what is "alleged" about the anti-social nature of the dealers' behaviour - they are committing a blatant crime, and in doing so acting in a way that can intimidate some members of the community.

Worse, the slippery slope that Hatboy is implicitly suggesting is very scary: where does his principle that Londoners should have the ability to "manage a basic encounter" end: should the diasbled be able to "manage a basic encounter" with stairs, should non-whites be able to "manage a basic encounter" with racists?

There is a problem of criminal activity outside the Tube in Brixton, which creates a threatening and unpleasant atmosphere. The police, eventually, have agreed that they will put their tea down and get out there and do something about it. I welcome that.

And once the dealers are forced to stop dealing, maybe they can do what most of the rest of us have to do, which is get up every day, struggle in to a legal job, earn some money, struggle home again, and get on with leading lawful lives.

 

[JHE]

Whilst I find the in your face in the open dealing unacceptable, what I find most offensive are the white, middle class tossers who think it's perfectly fine to hop off the bus / tube, score weed in front of families waiting for the bus, and then fuck off into the night to their nice cosy bolt holes.

If they didn't buy it, the dealers wouldn't be there.

Unless, of course, they had other, more local, customers to keep them in business.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Why does the response of the people of Brixton to illegal drug dealing depend on their class? Is it really the case that the non-professional classes don't feel the same? Sounds like the last gasp of class warfare to me.

And what is "alleged" about the anti-social nature of the dealers' behaviour - they are committing a blatant crime, and in doing so acting in a way that can intimidate some members of the community.

Worse, the slippery slope that Hatboy is implicitly suggesting is very scary: where does his principle that Londoners should have the ability to "manage a basic encounter" end: should the diasbled be able to "manage a basic encounter" with stairs, should non-whites be able to "manage a basic encounter" with racists?

There is a problem of criminal activity outside the Tube in Brixton, which creates a threatening and unpleasant atmosphere. The police, eventually, have agreed that they will put their tea down and get out there and do something about it. I welcome that.

And once the dealers are forced to stop dealing, maybe they can do what most of the rest of us have to do, which is get up every day, struggle in to a legal job, earn some money, struggle home again, and get on with leading lawful lives.

thoroughly rubbish post, sir, please come again!

 

[dogmatique]

Unless, of course, they had other, more local, customers to keep them in business.

They (we, being a white middle class tosser myself) do live locally. It's only a few stops up the Hill / wherever.

 

[articletwo]

thoroughly rubbish post, sir, please come again!

thanks, I will

 

[Blagsta]

Why does the response of the people of Brixton to illegal drug dealing depend on their class? Is it really the case that the non-professional classes don't feel the same? Sounds like the last gasp of class warfare to me.

And what is "alleged" about the anti-social nature of the dealers' behaviour - they are committing a blatant crime, and in doing so acting in a way that can intimidate some members of the community.

Worse, the slippery slope that Hatboy is implicitly suggesting is very scary: where does his principle that Londoners should have the ability to "manage a basic encounter" end: should the diasbled be able to "manage a basic encounter" with stairs, should non-whites be able to "manage a basic encounter" with racists?

There is a problem of criminal activity outside the Tube in Brixton, which creates a threatening and unpleasant atmosphere. The police, eventually, have agreed that they will put their tea down and get out there and do something about it. I welcome that.

And once the dealers are forced to stop dealing, maybe they can do what most of the rest of us have to do, which is get up every day, struggle in to a legal job, earn some money, struggle home again, and get on with leading lawful lives.

*bangs screen*

 

[pooka]

Well written. Though I'd take issue with 'so-called anti-social behaviour that might inconvenience the professional classes'. My experience is that exasperation with open street drug dealing goes absolutely across the community, including many people who have been in Brixton for a lot longer than either myself or hatboy, having arrived here from much further afield and in circumstances and times of much greater disadvantage. It also includes people trying to make a living in Brixton Market.

The comments about St Agnes are exactly right. Whatever one thinks about the rights or wrongs of squatting, or whether St Agnes could have been developed into a housing coop of some sort, to turn people out in the middle of winter and to do it in so confrontational a manner as required 200 police to avoid the risk of disorder, and to preface the whole espisode with irresponsible jibes about 'parasites', smacks of pure vindictiveness.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Well written. Though I'd take issue with 'so-called anti-social behaviour that might inconvenience the professional classes'. My experience is that exasperation with open street drug dealing goes absolutely across the community, including many people who have been in Brixton for a lot longer than either myself or hatboy, having arrived here from much further afield and in circumstances and times of much greater disadvantage. It also includes people trying to make a living in Brixton Market.

The comments about St Agnes are exactly right. Whatever one thinks about the rights or wrongs of squatting, or whether St Agnes could have been developed into a housing coop of some sort, to turn people out in the middle of winter and to do it in so confrontational a manner as required 200 police to avoid the risk of disorder, and to preface the whole espisode with irresponsible jibes about 'parasites', smacks of pure vindictiveness.

Indeed and indeed.

 

[sugar swiller]

The other letter is appalling.

I thought both letters were interesting. Why did you find the latter "appalling"?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I thought both letters were interesting. Why did you find the latter "appalling"?

The appalling racism? The appalling willingness of the Standard to print a letter making undetailed accusations against black people?

 

[sugar swiller]

The appalling racism? The appalling willingness of the Standard to print a letter making undetailed accusations against black people?

So you find the view that many white and asian children are developing negative attitudes towards black people as a result of being robbed by black kids to be wrong in fact and hence racist?

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I think you understand very well indeed what I mean - and I understand very well what you are doing, new poster.

 

[editor]

So you find the view that many white and asian children are developing negative attitudes towards black people as a result of being robbed by black kids to be wrong in fact and hence racist?

And you are.... oh yes, rednblack's "friend", graymon, aka shinynew-@ aka piss-weak troller shortygoldtooth. All banned (as you will be shortly).

He reckons you're the spammers friend, Top Cat. I reckon you should see a doctor about your weird obsession with this site.

 

[sugar swiller]

"Spammers Friend?" Lost me there with that one...

 

[editor]

"Spammers Friend?" Lost me there with that one...

You know - the kind of spineless twat who signed me up to loads of spam lists.

Now fuck off.

 

[pk]

Load of pants.

Hatboy once again mistaking useless weed and crack dealers as some kind of endagered element of black culture.

If he can't handle the fact that the majority of Brixton's residents - including those who happen to be black - don't want to be pestered by junkies and other such lowlife as soon as they step out of the tube station perhaps he should be the one to move.

Maybe if he enjoys the cultural richness that is the constant hassling by surplus dealers he should move to Bogota.

St Agnes - well that's a shame, really, but it had been swamped by crack dealers operating without any fear of arrest for a while, as anyone living there will testify.

If I were a black resident of Lambeth I would be keen to stop Hatboy's efforts to represent what it is their culture is supposed to be about - he speaks for nobody but himself and his "misfit" mates - you know, the ones who enjoy all the benefits of having local professionals pay for their rent, income support, sickness pay, incapacity benefit, medicines and methodone through taxes...

That letter is an insult to the black residents of Lambeth, and his attitude is precisely why I moved away to raise a family... excusing the foul behaviour of drug addicts littering children's playgrounds with dirty needles will be next, you watch... all in the name of "diversity".

 

[dum dum]

Your Jon Gaunt and i claim my five pounds.

 

[pk]

Your Jon Gaunt and i claim my five pounds.

Why is that - because I detest being pestered in Brixton town centre by idiots hissing "skunk... coke...." ?

I don't want to see the area yuppiefied any more than Hatboy does, but neither should the dealers be tolerated.

Move them off the High Road. Not much to ask really is it?

 

[IntoStella]

Load of pants.

Hatboy once again mistaking useless weed and crack dealers as some kind of endagered element of black culture.

If he can't handle the fact that the majority of Brixton's residents - including those who happen to be black - don't want to be pestered by junkies and other such lowlife as soon as they step out of the tube station perhaps he should be the one to move.

Maybe if he enjoys the cultural richness that is the constant hassling by surplus dealers he should move to Bogota.

St Agnes - well that's a shame, really, but it had been swamped by crack dealers operating without any fear of arrest for a while, as anyone living there will testify.

If I were a black resident of Lambeth I would be keen to stop Hatboy's efforts to represent what it is their culture is supposed to be about - he speaks for nobody but himself and his "misfit" mates - you know, the ones who enjoy all the benefits of having local professionals pay for their rent, income support, sickness pay, incapacity benefit, medicines and methodone through taxes...

That letter is an insult to the black residents of Lambeth, and his attitude is precisely why I moved away to raise a family... excusing the foul behaviour of drug addicts littering children's playgrounds with dirty needles will be next, you watch... all in the name of "diversity".

Yeah, not being a proper Brixton 'Playa' like you, he obviously doesn't know what he's talking about.

You're too scared to even walk down the street on your own in Brixton. You live out in Surrey somewhere, or some other chickenshit bit of commuterland, because you were too conservative and too cowardly to stay in south London. That's why you moved away. Your opinions on Brixton have no relevance.

You're not a cool, edgy young inner-city DJ any more (though I doubt you ever were). You're a suburban dad with a midlife crisis and I really wish you wouldn't inflict it on us. Your thinly veiled bigotry fools no-one.