Hatboy's letter in Evening Standard

[TeeJay]

I guess the point is that most jobs pay shit. These people aren't stupid - they just figure why should they work their arses off so someone else can profit when they can commit crime and be better off...

Whether you are retailing illegal drugs or retailing groceries someone else is making a profit somewhere in the supply chain.

What would you define as "shit"? Something like £200/week (40 hours @ £5/hr)?

Maybe in the short term people can make money, but I'd guess that lifetime earnings for people involved in crime in the UK isn't on average that great, so as a "career choice" it ends up being pretty shit.

 

[Bob]

There've been a few studies of this by economists that show that street level guys typically make no more than they'd make on the minimum wage, and of course are taking serious risks by doing it. The reason they do it is so they have a shot at working their way up the chain to the big time where they make serious amounts of money. No tackling of deprivation will have any significant impact on this unless we make sure that every kid who leaves school in Britain goes into a job earning at least £50k a year - which seems a little unlikely to me.

I can only see two long term answers. The first is full legalisation of everything. The second is reducing demand substantially.

 

[phildwyer]

Of course these things are impossible to estimate accurately, and vary greatly, but generally speaking in the USA, the street-level dealers of hard drugs make $40--80K p.a., which is a the equivalent of a skilled blue-collar worker such as pumber, electrician or cop. This is much more than the dealers could make any other way, since they lack skills due to the fact that they grow up in low-income areas with a low tax base and therefore crap schools.

I'd also say, and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, that it is the purest hyporisy for people who use drugs to criticize dealers, whether they work on the street or elsewhere.

 

[editor]

I'd also say, and this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, that it is the purest hyporisy for people who use drugs to criticize dealers, whether they work on the street or elsewhere.

So would someone who smokes, say, a little weed, be a 'hypocrite' for criticising a violent crack dealer?

And you don't see any difference between the drugs being sold and the damage they can cause, both to the local community and to the user?

 

[phildwyer]

So would someone who smokes, say, a little weed, be a 'hypocrite' for criticising a violent crack dealer?

And you don't see any difference between the drugs being sold and the damage they can cause, both to the local community and to the user?

Well, violence is a different issue. And I'd separate weed from other drugs too. But anyone who uses coke is directly contributing to the industry that puts crack dealers on the streets. There was a thread a while ago about a Nigerian mule being given prison time, and several people who've said they use coke were endorsing the sentence. Personally, I think that if one uses drugs oneself, one is not really in a position to object to street dealers of those same drugs.

 

[TeeJay]

Does this mean that noone who uses electricity or motorised transport can speak out against climate change?

 

[phildwyer]

Does this mean that noone who uses electricity or motorised transport can speak out against climate change?

Oh don't be a twat, again. All I mean is that the residents of Brixton (at least those who consider themselves in any sense "left-wing") should stop moaning about street dealers, instead accepting them as an inevitable element within the alternative culture of which they are rightly proud.

 

[TeeJay]

Oh don't be a twat, again. All I mean is that the residents of Brixton (at least those who consider themselves in any sense "left-wing") should stop moaning about street dealers, instead accepting them as an inevitable element within the alternative culture of which they are rightly proud.

If that's what you meant why did you say "people who take drugs" instead of "people who are left wing" or "people who live in Brixton"? In any case you new version of 'what you mean' makes even less sense.

So it seems that it is you being a twat.

How is your new book coming on btw?

 

[editor]

All I mean is that the residents of Brixton (at least those who consider themselves in any sense "left-wing") should stop moaning about street dealers, instead accepting them as an inevitable element within the alternative culture of which they are rightly proud.

I'm honestly a bit lost here.

Why should the residents of Brixton "accept" the random violence and crime that goes with the crack trade?

 

[phildwyer]

How is your new book coming on btw?

Great, how about yours?

 

[TeeJay]

I'm not writing a book you donut!

What's the connection between being "left wing" and 'not complaining about crack dealers' again?

 

[JHE]

Oh don't be a twat, again. All I mean is that the residents of Brixton (at least those who consider themselves in any sense "left-wing") should stop moaning about street dealers, instead accepting them as an inevitable element within the alternative culture of which they are rightly proud.

Assuming that you are referring to smack/crack dealers as well as some relatively harmless types flogging cannabis, I'm not sure how to take this. Is it (a) a parody of fashionable liberal twaddle or (b) sincere twaddle (and almost beyond parody)?

 

[TeeJay]

or (c) a message from God

 

[phildwyer]

I'm not writing a book you donut!

What's the connection between being "left wing" and 'not complaining about crack dealers' again?

Just a matter of live-and-let-live among the lumpenproles. A matter of not sympathising with state oppression of the disenfranchised. A sense of common interests within a diverse community. A feeling of solidarity with those who have no chance to achieve a decent standard of living within the law. Things like that, which were once basic persuppositions of anarchist politics...

 

[TeeJay]

Shall I start a "Is it left wing to tolerate crack dealers?" thread in the Politics & Protest forum or would you like the honour?

 

[phildwyer]

Shall I start a "Is it left wing to tolerate crack dealers?" thread in the Politics & Protest forum or would you like the honour?

The honour is all yours.

 

[Blagsta]

Whether you are retailing illegal drugs or retailing groceries someone else is making a profit somewhere in the supply chain.

What would you define as "shit"? Something like £200/week (40 hours @ £5/hr)?

Maybe in the short term people can make money, but I'd guess that lifetime earnings for people involved in crime in the UK isn't on average that great, so as a "career choice" it ends up being pretty shit.

Errrr...did I say it was a good choice? I'm just trying to illustrate how people involved in crime see their choices.