Hatboy's letter in Evening Standard

[editor]

yes, but she specifically mentioned in that posting and another that she was quite clear Dubversion was nothing to do with it. In other words she was clearly ruling him out, not dragging him in.

Look: I'm doing the best I can here but I've had enough of having to look at this fucking shitty thread and getting moaned at whatever I do.

And to be honest, you're not really helping.

It's not up to you to ask if content relating to another poster should be removed: if IS wants it removed she can PM me and I'll be glad to oblige her when and if I get time. But she hasn't asked.

No, I'll tell you what, I'll just save myself the bother of all that extra work and just dump the entire thread now and then everyone will be happy, yes?

No? Of course not! Some people will no doubt complain that it should be kept.
What a silly idea!

It's these kind of threads that really make it really hard to be a cheery fucker, but what the fuck.

It's Friday and I've got a shiny new camera coming on loan tomorrow. And there's beer coming my way tonight. Nice.

The power of positive thinking in action.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I'm not sure what's upsetting you. You have said before that people should make their feelings known if they think something is out of order: you've previously asked people who've mentioned things after the fact whether or not they've done so. I have done so. And I think it's a serious thing, defamation of character, trying to spread rumours to destroy somebody else's reputation. You may think it doesn't "help" to say so: I see it otherwise. It is surely your privilege to leave things as they are if you wish. But it is surely also mine to express some measure of disagreement.

As for getting moaned at whatever you do - well, I sympathise, but not all moans are equally unreasonable, are they?

 

[editor]

And I think it's a serious thing, defamation of character, trying to spread rumours to destroy somebody else's reputation.

So I'm supposed to spend ages of my precious time trawling through a really fucking dull, long thread where insults have been freely traded between several posters and find and delete content that you personally find objectionable, even if the original posters haven't complained, yes?

I can see some of IS's comments about pk could be described as defamatory, but why aren't you asking me to delete them too?

I'm getting more inclined to just delete the whole fucking thing on account of wanting to have a life on a Friday night.

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I'm getting more inclined to just delete the whole fucking thing on account of wanting to have a life on a Friday night.

Isn't it time for your electric blanket and hot milk, old boy?

 

[editor]

Isn't it time for your electric blanket and hot milk, old boy?

Well, I have switched from 'aving it large, wife-beater Stella to old man real ale recently, but I don't think I'm quite ready for an electric blanket yet.

 

[kea]

without being funny, pk used to be one of urban's stalwarts, and accorded me many hours of amusement by being harsh but fair. these days he's just harsh. it's a shame. bring back the old pk and not a vitriolic hate-merchant.

i echo this sentiment - heart-felt. pk was a great bloke. it's really sad things have turned out like this

sorry for bumping the thread editor, but i'd just like to add that pk's posts about me are complete crap (sure everyone has realised this anyway but would like to say so, just for the record).

i hope if pk comes back he will manage to restrain himself a bit better.


edit: and i really do think that his comments about intostella are beyond acceptability. completely disgusting.

 

[Santi-Panchita]

edited out to avoid further provocation

 

[oryx]

but I don't think I'm quite ready for an electric blanket yet.

And what is wrong with electric blankets?

Re. Hatboy's letter - I do tend to think it portrays dealers as cheeky chappie outlaws who are an annoyance to the yuppies. This ignores the fact that most people whose lives are blighted by drugs and dealers are not 'yuppies' but live in poverty & disenfrachisement on the disadvantaged estates of Lambeth (and elsewhere, of course). The downside to the cheeky chappie dealers plying their wares by the tube is not a tutting and disapproving yup, but someone (probably a working-class family who have no alternative) having to live next door to a crackhouse.

I do miss Hatboy's intelligent & incisive posts (though the reasons he's not posting here any more are not for me to coment on).

<remembers to plug leccy blanket in soon>

 

[Ms T]

Re. Hatboy's letter - I do tend to think it portrays dealers as cheeky chappie outlaws who are an annoyance to the yuppies. This ignores the fact that most people whose lives are blighted by drugs and dealers are not 'yuppies' but live in poverty & disenfrachisement on the disadvantaged estates of Lambeth (and elsewhere, of course). The downside to the cheeky chappie dealers plying their wares by the tube is not a tutting and disapproving yup, but someone (probably a working-class family who have no alternative) having to live next door to a crackhouse.

Not to mention the fact that a significant number of young, black men end up dead because of drug dealing.

 

[Blagsta]

And what is wrong with electric blankets?

Re. Hatboy's letter - I do tend to think it portrays dealers as cheeky chappie outlaws who are an annoyance to the yuppies. This ignores the fact that most people whose lives are blighted by drugs and dealers are not 'yuppies' but live in poverty & disenfrachisement on the disadvantaged estates of Lambeth (and elsewhere, of course). The downside to the cheeky chappie dealers plying their wares by the tube is not a tutting and disapproving yup, but someone (probably a working-class family who have no alternative) having to live next door to a crackhouse.

I do miss Hatboy's intelligent & incisive posts (though the reasons he's not posting here any more are not for me to coment on).

<remembers to plug leccy blanket in soon>

Hmmm...I read it more along the lines of - a lot of people are dealing precisely because of the poverty and disenfranchisment and shouldn't we be addressing that?

 

[Dubversion]

Hmmm...I read it more along the lines of - a lot of people are dealing precisely because of the poverty and disenfranchisment and shouldn't we be addressing that?

i'm amazed it can be read any other way, to be honest.

 

[editor]

Isn't just as much of a stereotype to assume that "a lot" of people are dealing crack because of "poverty and disenfranchisment" in Brixton?

I'm sure some are, but who knows what proportion? The majority? 50%? A minority? Anyone got any figures?

That's not to say that poverty and disenfranchisment shouldn't be addressed, of course.

Edit to add: interesting article here:
http://www.schnews.org.uk/sotw/evrybody-neighbours.htm

 

[Blagsta]

Its an opinion based on observation and working for a Brixton drugs service. Street dealers aren't exactly top of the pile.

 

[editor]

Its an opinion based on observation and working for a Brixton drugs service.

Has there been no study?
I'd be interested in learning the demographic breakdown of crack dealers in my 'hood.

 

[editor]

Street dealers aren't exactly top of the pile.

<notes edit>

True. But that doesn't necessarily make them disenfranchised or poverty-striken, does it?

(That's not to say that some aren't, of course!)

 

[Blagsta]

Not sure about stats for Brixton dealers but Turning Point recently produced The Crack Report
http://www.turning-point.co.uk/NR/r...-B8D5-F60A30D9BCE3/0/TP_CrackReport250705.pdf

 

[editor]

Eeek! PDF! I'll look later. Cheers for the link.

 

[pk]

An apology

Just want to say I fucked up last night, I was in a proper bollocks mood and went way over the top in response to IntoStella, and for that I apologise, both to her and the rest of the forum.

I wasn't looking for a ruck but shouldn't have been such a cunt especially with the personal bullshit... I admit that I definitely was with the stuff I was coming out with.

Guess a lot of shit been slinging around lately, and I have felt more than a bit guilty that I let it get the better of me, especially this close to Christmas.

So - once again I find myself having to eat the humble crumble and admit I was way over the top.

I'll start deleting now. Perhaps others can do the same? We'll see.

I still stand by the comments I made about the letter and the need to get rid of street dealers, but that's an opinion - the rest was an unneccesarily cuntish and spiteful over the top attack, and although IntoStella and I have hardly ever seen eye to eye on anything, she definitely didn't deserve that shit.

I wouldn't blame you if you told me to go and get fucked, IS, but I do genuinely apologise anyway. I hope you took it with the pinch of salt it deserved.

Shit happens, but to chuck it back at random in such a way shouldn't happen.

Again, sorry.



pk

 

[Derian]

Top post

 

[gaijingirl]

Top post

Yes.... I agree......

 

[editor]

Good for you, pk.

 

[TeeJay]

On the subject of which, google rates the man the 10th biggest parasite in the UK

A few more of the below on peoples bloggies and he might make number 1 :

<a href="http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/NR/exeres/F9307333-3A43-4659-BE11-0CD339F06A62.htm">
Parasite
</a>

He's made page 6 of the worldwide parasite list.

 

[TeeJay]

Here's hoping KF hasnt got any heavies.

I got a final warning threat of banning on the Guardian talkboards when I posted a thread saying that the Lambeth LibDems had banned the cannabis festival. They also deleted the whole thread - which apparently is unusual - and refused to answer my emails asking why. Obviously the LibDem central intelligence agency were on the case.

 

[netbob]

I got a final warning threat of banning on the Guardian talkboards when I posted a thread saying that the Lambeth LibDems had banned the cannabis festival. They also deleted the whole thread - which apparently is unusual - and refused to answer my emails asking why. Obviously the LibDem central intelligence agency were on the case.

If that's the case it seems a bit over the top, if you'd said it in a local paper they wouldn't have tried to ban the local paper?!

The internet- easy to publish, easy to censor

Fortunately blogs (especially when privately hosted) are less susceptible to that kind of censorship. (Earlier in the year a few bloggers managed to get the word Liar associated with Tony Blair and Sir Iain Blair.)

 

[netbob]

Top post

Yes.... I agree......

Yep

 

[articletwo]

Not sure about stats for Brixton dealers but Turning Point recently produced The Crack Report
http://www.turning-point.co.uk/NR/r...-B8D5-F60A30D9BCE3/0/TP_CrackReport250705.pdf

Interesting report, but it hardly portrays the dealers as victims of "poverty and disenfranchisement"; in fact, they come across as ruthless and cynical profiteers who switched recovered heroin users to crack (p.6) and who "promoted [crack] as ‘smokeable cocaine’ to engage the younger market, or marketed [it] initially for free as a ‘two for one’ offer with the purchase of heroin" (p.6).
It then goes on to say that "[the] British Crime Survey reveals that primary crack use may be particularly prevalent in and damaging to African-Caribbean ommunities in certain areas of the UK" and "The effects of crack also hit harder where social exclusion is acute. Many deprived neighbourhoods experience the additional blight of open dealing, associated violence and street prostitution." (also p.6). Far from the action against dealers at the Tube being to placate the "professional" classes, it seems more to do with helping the wider community in Brixton.
What the report also makes clear is that "treatment works" (p.8); is there a corresponding provision of treatment alongside the police clampdown on the dealers?

 

[Blagsta]

Do you think that they're on about street level dealers? Why do you think people turn to crime? I was up at the prison the other week. A lot of the inmates were of the opinion that getting a job is pointless as they can make more money other ways. Maybe addressing some of the social and economic inequalities in our society might address the problem.

 

[editor]

I was up at the prison the other week. A lot of the inmates were of the opinion that getting a job is pointless as they can make more money other ways. Maybe addressing some of the social and economic inequalities in our society might address the problem.

Are you saying they could get work but would rather go for the more lucrative, easier buck, or that they are forced into dealing because they're unable to get a job?

 

[pooka]

What the report also makes clear is that "treatment works" (p.8); is there a corresponding provision of treatment alongside the police clampdown on the dealers?

See this thread

There's useful stuff too in a recent report by Mike Hough and others at Kings about the relationships between drug dealing and communities, summarised in Understanding drug selling in local communities

 

[Blagsta]

Are you saying they could get work but would rather go for the more lucrative, easier buck, or that they are forced into dealing because they're unable to get a job?

I guess the point is that most jobs pay shit. These people aren't stupid - they just figure why should they work their arses off so someone else can profit when they can commit crime and be better off...I don't think crime* is justified but I can understand it.

*although that depends what is meant by "crime".