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has there ever been a lamer labour leader than ed miliband?

Most of the quotes in that article come from 'a source close to Mr Byrne' - so plenty of wiggle room from the Mail hacks to put their own spin on it. But yes, this is basically the sort of shit that Miliband and New Labour espouse and have been as complicit in pursuing this toxic agenda as the tories.
 
he's a joke who will be fucked off by his own party as soon as they want to actually win an election
 
No, in answer to the thread title. He's a disaster. Cameron and Osborne must've pissed their pants when he was elected leader. They can do what they want and still get re-elected.
 
A lot of this is coming from Liam Byrne, the former banker and 'key NL strategist', what was it he said, ''wealth without work is a sin'', 65 pounds a week is wealth, what sort of 'wealth' is that?

'"There is one sentiment that really shines through. People are angry about the state we face and they believe a new politics of responsibility is the answer. There's a sense of too many great sins: wealth without work; commerce without morality; politics without principle."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/jun/13/jobless-have-to-try-harder-says-labour
 
purenarcotic said:
'And he will say that people should get state handouts only if they have paid their taxes first.


How can he make such a retarded statement. So what happens to kids who have just left school? I suppose they're supposed to just sit on the streets and beg for their dinner.​

For fuck's sake.​
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or disabled people or those on long term sick, etc..
 
Ramsey Macdonald, James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock,Hugh Gaitskill, Harriet Harman - he's no better or worse than any of these. Since his election his party have done very well in the polls for over a year now. The Blairite hard right wing of the party have launched an open attack on him via their journo contacts over the last month - don't buy their hype.
 
Jeff Robinson said:
Most of the quotes in that article come from 'a source close to Mr Byrne' - so plenty of wiggle room from the Mail hacks to put their own spin on it. But yes, this is basically the sort of shit that Miliband and New Labour espouse and have been as complicit in pursuing this toxic agenda as the tories.
Click to expand...

Oops, sorry should have read other posts, but yes, Byrne is behind a lot of this, backed by Millipede though...
 
Blundered by not doing enough to combat the work shy? What?

Even in 2007, you could have your benefit stopped for up to 6 months because you failed to apply for a job the JobCentre told you to. My work placement officer was practically pleading with me back then to leave JSA and go onto IB instead, because the rules governing JSA were getting so harsh. And Ed thinks Labour didn't do enough to combat the work shy? What planet is he on?

I used to think Ed was OK too :(
 
purenarcotic said:
'And he will say that people should get state handouts only if they have paid their taxes first.


How can he make such a retarded statement. So what happens to kids who have just left school? I suppose they're supposed to just sit on the streets and beg for their dinner.​

For fuck's sake.​
Click to expand...
Yep. Unless they're planning on actually creating jobs for them to go to. Before the election Gordon Brown was talking about time limiting JSA and creating a job for someone to go to, so who knows.
 
butchersapron said:
Ramsey Macdonald, James Callaghan,Neil Kinnock,Hugh Gaitskill, Harriet Harman - he's no better or worse than any of these. Since his election his party have done very well in the polls for over a year now. The Blairite hard right wing of the party have launched an open attack on him via their journo contacts over the last month - don't buy their hype.
Click to expand...
When was Harriet Harman labour leader?
I think he is epically shite, he's doing a good job of making Gordon Brown look charismatic. This takes some doing. Cameron must be pissing himself laughing.
 
_angel_ said:
When was Harriet Harman labour leader?
I think he is epically shite, he's doing a good job of making Gordon Brown look charismatic. This takes some doing. Cameron must be pissing himself laughing.
Click to expand...
After Brown stepped down. Cameron has had a year when he's been behind in practically all polls. He's not going to buy this blairite nonsense.
 
look to Oz to see what is happening under Gilliard for directions, labour in power, its frightening, especially welfare relating to Aboriginals..

oh, the hour and a half travel rule will mean those forced into work will spend all their wages travelling on the expensive trains..
 
If anybody was under any delusion that we still live in a 'welfare' state then that's been well and truly smashed.
 
Miliband is a real liability to his party. He needs friends so much that he will give an ear to anyone. He allowed himself to be persuaded to give a left swing in his leadership campaign but having beaten his much more capable brother he has no real convictions of his own. The days of 'me too' Labour policy-making just following the Tories are still with us
 
treelover said:
look to Oz to see what is happening under Gilliard for directions, labour in power, its frightening, especially welfare relating to Aboriginals..

oh, the hour and a half travel rule will mean those forced into work will spend all their wages travelling on the expensive trains..
Click to expand...
What trains? It's most likely to be bus transport where I am. Very expensive and turn up literally whenever they want. Whatever 1 and a half hours on a bus is meant to be, will probably be more than three hours in reality of traffic. It's certainly taken me a full two hours to get home from the other side of Leeds. Anyone in a car could have done it in about 15-20 mins.
 
treelover said:
A lot of this is coming from Liam Byrne, the former banker and 'key NL strategist', what was it he said, ''wealth without work is a sin'', 65 pounds a week is wealth, what sort of 'wealth' is that?
Click to expand...

And pains of invoking Godwins Law - and I don't mean to deliberately ; article 33 of the NSDAP party manifesto of 1933, refers explicitly to the "abolition of income unearned by work". As in if you don't work, you don't get income......
 
StraightOuttaQ said:
And pains of invoking Godwins Law - and I don't mean to deliberately ; article 33 of the NSDAP party manifesto of 1933, refers explicitly to the "abolition of income unearned by work". As in if you don't work, you don't get income......
Click to expand...

Do you mean the 25 point program orginally from 1920 and largely abandoned by 1933 - when this was seen as a left-wing measure to attack war-profiteers and excessive profits? That was in fact an argument for nationalisation and nothing whatsoever to do with welfare or social policy?
 
purenarcotic said:
If anybody was under any delusion that we still live in a 'welfare' state then that's been well and truly smashed.
Click to expand...

This goes back 5 years - Welfare reform white paper was comissioned by Labour and they employed David Freud (now Lord Freud) to write it. Quite why a city commercial banker has any business dealing with benefit recipients who live for a week on what he would spend on a glass of wine, god knows. Six months later, he defected to the Tories. The whole underlying assumption beneath that report which our current Welfare System is based upon - jobs for everyone, 100% employment - has fallen apart. The house on which it is built is made of sand, and about to fall down. Its not based upon the real world, but some full-employment no-recession fantasy that was hoped to take place.

And for this deliberate, wilful impoverishment of millions and their demonization - they made him a Lord. I'd charge him with wilful neglect, obtaining money via deception for delivering work not fit for purpose, and fraud for the same. But hey, thats just me.
 
butchersapron said:
Do you mean the 25 point program orginally from 1920 and largely abandoned by 1933 - when this was seen as a left-wing measure to attack war-profiteers and excessive profits? That was in fact an argument for nationalisation and nothing whatsoever to do with welfare or social policy?
Click to expand...

Point 11 of the 1920 manifesto, i stand corrected. Looked it up Noakes And Pridham "Nazism 1919-1945 1 ; The Rise To Power (A Documentary Reader)". I'd still consider that it is in the NSDAP manifesto, the comparison still stands. I don't consider that manifesto very socialist / left wing. Break this down...

- point 5 talking about "Only those of German Blood may be a member of the nation. Accordingly, No Jew may be a member of the nation",
- point 7 talkiing about "Foreign Nationals must be deported from the reich", and point 8 about forcibly removing all immigrants are hardly left wing.
-point 18 ; "Common criminals, profiteers, ursurers...must be punished by death"
-point 24 talking about "Jewish materialist spirit within"

All fascist / right wing ideology ; the likes of which you would see on the extremes of the right. Not a socialist / left wing measure at all. The only point about about war-profiteers is point 12, which is a populist measure due to reparations courtesy of Versailles, bearing this in mind we are 3 years before the currency collapse of the weimar republic, were still deeply unpopular.
 
I would like to give the nose surgeon who obviously made such a monumental cock-up with his recent sinus widening operation a small round of applause - FEEL THE PAIN NEO THATCHERITE SCUMBAG !

Miliband and his NuLabour coterie of neo Thatcherites must presumeably be getting back from their "focus groups" and private opinion polls that to gain votes in marginals they should be promising to break up the unemployed for the organ banks. Which is depressing... but I can only assume they simply assume the working class Labour vote is permanently "locked in" through voter loyalty and lack of an alternative. SURELY as the austerity measures continue to bite the working class will , first , desert Labour through mad protest votes (BNP ?, Greens, Independants ) and/or simply stay at home, and NuLabour's chasing of the Tory vote will prove to be a Big electoral mistake. Here's hoping - because at present we have THREE essentially neo Thatcherite major parties in the UK. On and downwards into permanent SLUMP we go.

We need a credible new party of the radical Left... BUT where is it ?
 
StraightOuttaQ said:
Point 11 of the 1920 manifesto, i stand corrected. Looked it up Noakes And Pridham "Nazism 1919-1945 1 ; The Rise To Power (A Documentary Reader)". I'd still consider that it is in the NSDAP manifesto, the comparison still stands. I don't consider that manifesto very socialist / left wing. Break this down...

- point 5 talking about "Only those of German Blood may be a member of the nation. Accordingly, No Jew may be a member of the nation",
- point 7 talkiing about "Foreign Nationals must be deported from the reich", and point 8 about forcibly removing all immigrants are hardly left wing.
-point 18 ; "Common criminals, profiteers, ursurers...must be punished by death"
-point 24 talking about "Jewish materialist spirit within"

All fascist / right wing ideology ; the likes of which you would see on the extremes of the right. Not a socialist / left wing measure at all. The only point about about war-profiteers is point 12, which is a populist measure due to reparations courtesy of Versailles, bearing this in mind we are 3 years before the currency collapse of the weimar republic, were still deeply unpopular.
Click to expand...

You miss the point, the demand was included in 1920 in order to win over communists socialists and the w/c in a period of intense revolutionary upheaval - it was not aimed at welfare scroungers but the popular perception of the rich (hence the anti-debt element of the demand for example). It was a temporary expediency and not part of any post-1933 program - see also the immediately following demands for nationalisation and division of profits. This is why the comparison with modern social policy misses its target by some distance. I'm not arguing that it was a left-wing document either btw
 
There has been a complete oversight at the top of what a welfare state should be about. Of course it requires contribution from those who can, but it works both ways. A welfare state should not just be about providing support when somebody falls on hard times, but it should be striving to put in place measures that reduce the need to rely on it 100%. There will obviously be those who will always need constant support, that's only right and fair, but so many of those relying on the system at the moment are only doing so because the welfare state has failed them. It did not give them a good education, it did not do enough to get them out of poverty, it did not do enough to give them decent homes to live in, it did not protect them from abuse and most importantly of all, it did not empower or enable them to realise that they are worth something, that they have a value.

That people wake up each day and believe that nobody cares is one of our biggest crimes in history.

Our welfare needs a shake up for sure, unfortunately it going in the complete opposite and wrong direction.
 
ayatollah said:
I would like to give the nose surgeon who obviously made such a monumental cock-up with his recent sinus widening operation a small round of applause - FEEL THE PAIN NEO THATCHERITE SCUMBAG !

Miliband and his NuLabour coterie of neo Thatcherites must presumeably be getting back from their "focus groups" and private opinion polls that to gain votes in marginals they should be promising to break up the unemployed for the organ banks. Which is depressing... but I can only assume they simply assume the working class Labour vote is permanently "locked in" through voter loyalty and lack of an alternative. SURELY as the austerity measures continue to bite the working class will , first , desert Labour through mad protest votes (BNP ?, Greens, Independants ) and/or simply stay at home, and NuLabour's chasing of the Tory vote will prove to be a Big electoral mistake. Here's hoping - because at present we have THREE essentially neo Thatcherite major parties in the UK. On and downwards into permanent SLUMP we go.

We need a credible new party of the radical Left... BUT where is it ?
Click to expand...

that about says it all .....GRIM
 
i don't think he's been a bad leader of the labour party at all - he's a poor public speaker, but most of his policy decisions and the way he's dealt with unfolding events has shown a keen political mind, and generally popular with the voting public.

he's an awful leader for the leftwing party some of you clearly imagine the labour party is, mind.
 
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