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Guilty displeasures

rutabowa said:
I don't really like any music that is made by nice, well-adjusted people, full stop. I don't know if it is something inherent in the music, or if I just have an awful teenage romantic view of "artists".
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I'm reminded of Mark Fisher's classic Sonic Youth diss:
Ultimately, there's something very uncomfortable about SY referring to the likes of Darby Crash while continuing on a thirty year, very stable, career as professional musicians and dilletantes. The problem isn't quite that SY weren't self-destructive fuck-ups as that they seem to be so pathologically well-adjusted that the music doesn't appear to be performing any kind of sublimatory function for them. It isn't that they "don't mean it" so much as they only mean it, that, like the worst, most self-conscious meta-art, the work is reducible to a set of easily verbally explicable intentions. There is no sense, even in the early work as far as this listener is concerned, that the music is drawing on any unconscious material.
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I don't really mind SY, especially the 80s stuff, but "It isn't that they "don't mean it" so much as they only mean it" is a great line.
 
Knotted said:
Best way in is to see it performed live IMO. Free improvisation can have a lot of tension in the air and a lot of dynamic range (loud to soft). It might be able to stun you into attention. If you ever get to see eg. the Sun Ra Arkestra, it's like a religious experience - ecstatic free improve and chants and ditties and audience participation and the group marching round the room. You won't be bored.
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Btw I wouldn’t put Sun Ra in the fire-in-a-pet-shop genre
 
Orang Utan said:
I like looking at their facial expressions, especially drummers
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I saw an American bebop quartet once in Leeds and the drummer looked like Tommy Cooper in a nice suit and had the same facial expressions as him. Can’t remember owt about the music but his face will always stay with me
 
Another vote for Prince - can appreciate thats he was hugely talented, great performer, brilliant producer - but nothing hes ever done has ever grabbed me.

Pet Shop Boys - critics gush but its mostly a "meh" from me. West End Girls and Always on my Mind were decent - but the rest leaves me cold.

Large chunks of Jazz - be bop, free jazz, experimental - coltrane, miles davies ... Ive tried, but it just dont move me daddio.

Born Slippy - Underworld .. when does the song actually kick in? oh. it never does.

Mozart. Too many notes.

philip glass - michael nyman - actively annoying. literally music by numbers.

The Ramones :oops: - I know. And me a lifelong purveyor of punk rock electric guitar as well. Can see why they were important and how influential they were - but they have never managed to make me want to jump around and kick things or even just sing along.
 
I saw some avant-garde wanky jazz live once, sort of by mistake. well me and a mate were passing, he saw the sign, we went in out of curiosity. You had to wear white mime gloves they gave you at the door, there was ultraviolet light, Bird Song samples and a keytar,. I wasn’t into it, went back out stood at the bar, got told off for talking too loud. I mean I wasn’t, it was just they had several silent bits apart from the birdsong, where presumably people were miming and shit.
 
Kaka Tim said:
The Ramones :oops: - I know. And me a lifelong purveyor of punk rock electric guitar as well. Can see why they were important and how influential they were - but they have never managed to make me want to jump around and kick things or even just sing along.
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In MP3 player days I had a best of Ramones collection on my MP3 player and kept deleting the duff tracks. I ended up with 3 (i wanna be sedated, kkk took my baby away, beat on the brat). They can be deathly dull.
 
Red Hot Chilli Peppers. Fancied the lead singer, appreciated similar bands, felt entirely indifferent to the music.

Cowboy Junkies. Yeah, on paper. But no.

And please God not Sam Smith. Ever.

Or anyone else with a whiny voice for that matter.
 
hitmouse said:
I'm reminded of Mark Fisher's classic Sonic Youth diss:

I don't really mind SY, especially the 80s stuff, but "It isn't that they "don't mean it" so much as they only mean it" is a great line.
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It's a good line, but I don't buy it in regards to Sonic Youth. I still put them on when in a certain mood. In fact your post has inspired me to listen to Tunic (Song for Karen) for the first time in a while. It still gets me going.
 
Knotted said:
I came very late to the Pixies and perhaps I'm missing the historical context. The type of thing they were doing doesn't excite me greatly but I can appreciate it was new and different at the time. However it's their precise, polished playing that I dislike. They suck the energy out of the room.
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I've listened to Doolittle again and it's better than I remember it. There's a lot of action (and again very precise action) on the drums but the grooves are very 4/4 on the beat the whole way through, which means I get bored of it if I listen to more than two or three songs in one go. In small doses it's great, great vocals, great guitar. It's good, I'm fine with it.

And this is why I think it isn't a question of taste. The Pixies aren't quite to my taste for rhythmic reasons, and that's fine. But MC5 are to my taste and I still don't enjoy their music. This is what I'm getting at. I can't say I don't like MC5 because... As soon as I start to reason about it, I talk myself into believing I like them, but in practice I just don't enjoy it. This isn't a matter of taste, it's a matter of major malfunction. Does anybody know what I'm talking about??????
 
Poot said:
And please God not Sam Smith. Ever.
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Good pubs, shit music. Although I don't think it really counts for this thread cos I'm not hugely expecting anyone to jump in and defend them?
littlebabyjesus said:
It's a good line, but I don't buy it in regards to Sonic Youth. I still put them on when in a certain mood. In fact your post has inspired me to listen to Tunic (Song for Karen) for the first time in a while. It still gets me going.
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Yeah, if nothing else then it's hard to deny that the Confusion is Sex/Death Valley-era stuff is still pretty powerful. But that's Mark Fisher for you - a man of strong and powerfully-expressed opinions, not necessarily correct ones.
Knotted said:
And this is why I think it isn't a question of taste. The Pixies aren't quite to my taste for rhythmic reasons, and that's fine. But MC5 are to my taste and I still don't enjoy their music. This is what I'm getting at. I can't say I don't like MC5 because... As soon as I start to reason about it, I talk myself into believing I like them, but in practice I just don't enjoy it. This isn't a matter of taste, it's a matter of major malfunction. Does anybody know what I'm talking about??????
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Yeah, as someone who really enjoys a lot of twee pop I sometimes find myself reminded that the line between "twee and shambling and messy and brilliant" and "just grating to the point of being unlistenable" is a very fine one, and I'd be hard-pressed to say exactly where it is.
 
hitmouse said:
I'm reminded of Mark Fisher's classic Sonic Youth diss:

I don't really mind SY, especially the 80s stuff, but "It isn't that they "don't mean it" so much as they only mean it" is a great line.
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I read Kim Gordon's autobiography. It's surprisingly dull - middle class upbringing, art and music as a sensible career option, lots of name dropping hanging out with big names. She sounded a little bit disgruntled about her breakup with Thurston Moore.
 
hitmouse said:
Yeah, as someone who really enjoys a lot of twee pop I sometimes find myself reminded that the line between "twee and shambling and messy and brilliant" and "just grating to the point of being unlistenable" is a very fine one, and I'd be hard-pressed to say exactly where it is.
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Interesting. Can you give me an example of something near that cusp?
 
Nice Cave - Wildly overrated po-faced dullness
The Cardiacs - Jolly wheeze grating buffoonery
Chumbawumba - unlistenable dirge
 
Sweet FA said:
Have you heard folklore - Taylor Swift's most recent? Made with that bloke out of the National. I like TS anyway but it's slightly different to pop Tay-Tay.





Miss Americana, the doc about her on Netflix is excellent by the way.
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I think Evermore is the better album. Love it. And I love her pop stuff too.
 
editor said:
Nice Cave - Wildly overrated po-faced dullness
The Cardiacs - Jolly wheeze grating buffoonery
Chumbawumba - unlistenable dirge
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I think Nick Cave is my favourite live performer. Po-faced? Yeah he is a bit. But dullness? Live he's mesmerising. Two hours go by in a flash.
 
Knotted said:
Interesting. Can you give me an example of something near that cusp?
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I mean, I suppose Moldy Peaches would be one of the classics? Finally Punk, Tiger Trap, stuff like that?

Or, for something on the other side of the line, The Pastels - they sound a lot like, and were an influence on, a lot of other stuff I like, but when I listen to them I'm just like "eh, I could be listening to that other stuff instead, Jonathan Richman already exists"?
 
killer b said:
I loved The Fall as a live band, they were totally wonderful. I've never listened to their seminal albums though, and don't feel any real need to. I enjoy the albums of theirs I do have though, and will certainly pick any up that I see them in the chazzer for a reasonable price.
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I'm going to give you a peculiar suggestion that you can do what you like with. But if there's one Fall album I can't do without, it's Dragnet which is probably not even considered to be one of their seminal albums. The reason for this is that it's the only one with a drummer who isn't pounding out a strong leading beat and as a result it's all over the place and it twists and stutters and almost collapses and starts and takes off and you can't predict it. You can cut the air with the tension in this record. It maybe a sort of brilliant failure or maybe just a failure. It's my idea of what a good rock album sounds like.
 
hitmouse said:
I mean, I suppose Moldy Peaches would be one of the classics? Finally Punk, Tiger Trap, stuff like that?

Or, for something on the other side of the line, The Pastels - they sound a lot like, and were an influence on, a lot of other stuff I like, but when I listen to them I'm just like "eh, I could be listening to that other stuff instead, Jonathan Richman already exists"?
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OK see what you mean. Fwiw, I'm down with all of that.
 
Knotted said:
I'm going to give you a peculiar suggestion that you can do what you like with. But if there's one Fall album I can't do without, it's Dragnet which is probably not even considered to be one of their seminal albums. The reason for this is that it's the only one with a drummer who isn't pounding out a strong leading beat and as a result it's all over the place and it twists and stutters and almost collapses and starts and takes off and you can't predict it. You can cut the air with the tension in this record. It maybe a sort of brilliant failure or maybe just a failure. It's my idea of what a good rock album sounds like.
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I'll maybe give it a try later - I'm sure I'll like it, I generally do.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
I think Nick Cave is my favourite live performer. Po-faced? Yeah he is a bit. But dullness? Live he's mesmerising. Two hours go by in a flash.
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You might be mesmerised, I'd be drowning in the self satisfied waves of pompous self-important duffness. And yes, I have tried several times to get into his stuff.
 
I've seen Nick Cave live (Reading 92) and was entirely unimpressed. He didn't even make it onto the list of acts I feel I should like. The best record he made was that one with Kylie.
 
Alright repairs have been undertaken. I've fixed myself. I like MC5 now, it's finally clicked even if it took a day. It's just a bit more rock'n'roll boogie woogie than I expect it to be and the lead guitar is kinda more basic than I expect but I knew neither of those were bad things and I've attuned to it.

This is excellent btw:
MC5 - Skunk (Sonically Speaking) - YouTube

Can't believe I didn't like that earlier. Knotted from earlier today, you really are a proper wally. :facepalm:

Normal services shall be resumed.
 
Knotted said:
Alright repairs have been undertaken. I've fixed myself. I like MC5 now, it's finally clicked even if it took a day. It's just a bit more rock'n'roll boogie woogie than I expect it to be and the lead guitar is kinda more basic than I expect but I knew neither of those were bad things and I've attuned to it.

This is excellent btw:
MC5 - Skunk (Sonically Speaking) - YouTube

Can't believe I didn't like that earlier. Knotted from earlier today, you really are a proper wally. :facepalm:

Normal services shall be resumed.
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Covid test? Could be an atypical symptom.
 
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