MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
I'm sure they got a few kick backs from companies like Siemens. It's the Greek people they sold down.
Greek elections
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I'm sure they got a few kick backs from companies like Siemens. It's the Greek people they sold down.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
the less literary version is, i believe, 'don't argue with an idiot, they take it down to their level and beat you with experience'.
i have no idea, or opinion, as to whether a Pig or an idiot is more appropriate in this instance...
not-bono-ever
meh
I didnt go to boarding school - can someone tell me what exactly a spad is?
Ta
Ta
Lo Siento.
Second As Farce
special adviser
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
as said, but its usually reserved for unelected bods who offer advice and spin to MP's. Think malcom tucker, but usually not as sweary
not-bono-ever
meh
Thank you all.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
I just thought the conversation was a bit more productive without wading into the ins and outs of the art of negotiation. There is a reason why the negotiations are held behind closed doors after all.
ETA: ... and that's not because it's in the interests of the people.
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
my experience - of carrying bags and handing the tea over to the Ministers Lackeys' Lackey - was that if the negotiations were open for all to see people would decide that a wind up monkey could do the job equally well and at far less expence.
somehow however i rather doubt that thats what happening at the moment - i think a 'free and frank exchange of views' is the accepted term for a shouting match that comes close to fisticuffs...
Or in the railway world "signal past at danger".
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
The problem is that Syriza weren't in any position to just start announcing that they had decided on a path to leaving the euro, the polls still indicate that most Greeks don't (certainly didn't) want to do this. Syriza's tactics have made this option a politically possible one (and the troika's tactics too of course, who assumed that the Greek population would take fright at it).
So they've changed the game - and I wonder what the Greek polls will say about the euro over the coming weeks. There was never and never will be a good time to crash out of a currency union when you are the weakest element in it and you are negotiating with some extremely powerful countries who have their own reasons for wanting to punish you and whenever it happens, the Greek people will be clobbered for doing it. But what are their alternatives?
On top of this, Syriza's game has revealed the previously latent splits within the troika - most obviously between the IMF and the ECB/EU. The IMF are more-or-less openly supporting the Syriza position now (i.e. that the debt is literally unrepayable).
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
It's quite clear that Syriza's tactics - and that includes their negotiations - have changed the game. So the "art of the possible" includes the "art of what was previously thought impossible".
For someone who's sounding off about Varoufakis's mistakes and academic foolishness in his 'real life' understanding of Game Theory, I'm surprised that you've missed the obvious element of GT in his resignation (with the added little leaks suggesting that Tsipras "told him to go").
He just did Bad Cop, and now we will have Good Cop.
Syriza also just offered a sacrifice before one was demanded, (The Strong Sacrifice, ie one made from a position of - admittedly temporary - strength) thus wrong-footing the troika and preventing them from "demanding" Varofakis's head and making Syriza "comply with" that demand. This makes Syriza "reasonable" and "moderate" in the eyes of the media and the watching EU public, and allows the troika to make a reciprocal sacrifice without losing face.
He'll be back eventually and obviously deeply involved in strategy in the meantime.
pocketscience
Well-Known Member
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
The Greek government has posted a receipt to Whitehall, "Loan of Elgin Marbles, €10b"
gosub
~#
Rightly staying on the sidelines as we only a peripheral player. If Tspiras blazing saddles hostage gambit works though, expect loads of similar referendums across Africa and South America, all to the detriment of the suits in the City
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DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
In negotiation one gives something to get something. Anything the Greek govt. now offers in now debased in value as they've shown themselves to be not particularly good at delivering on things they previously promised with much arsing about, obfuscation and back tracking. So they now have to offer more to get less.
Donald Trump covers this in some detail in The Art of the Deal.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
MochaSoul
It's being enslaved of your own free will
Of course. He's the obvious expert at negotiating from the point of view of the underdog at the table, innit?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
let's look at this from another perspective. greece has something the rest of the eurozone wants: a fucking massive debt. if greece doesn't give this money back or some sustainable deal not done, economic and political chaos on the cards for the eu. if a deal done, then all may be well. if i was involved in the negotiations, i think what i would do would be to say, ok, we will revisit the old gold issue now, let's say we write down the greek debt and pay for it with the greek gold. so, with one fell swoop you remove a bone of contention (the greek gold), you remove or reduce a present threat (the vast greek debt) and you leave everyone happier. it's not like the gold matters too much to germany, in that their economy will be strong with or without it (and they get to keep much of it). so a little bit of economic sleight of hand and suddenly the world seems a better place.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
What have Syriza offered and not delivered?
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
Also made a small fortune, by starting with a big one.
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
no greater negotiator than Trump - he's negotiating, and everyone else in the room is looking at his syrup, mesmerised and in awe of his ambition and delusion.
co-op
But....but cLoWnFiSh....
I always thought he'd make a great restaurant table magician for exactly this reason. The thing's hypnotic.
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
TRUMP for Pres, 2016
That's not a point, nor is it a reasoned argument.
It is, however, an insult, which remarkably, given your intrinsically supercilious nature, you are not very good at articulating in an even remotely entertaining fashion.
It's a bit like being a dunce while trying to act the fool.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh, but that doesn't rebut Athos' claim that you haven't a clew what you're talking about
kebabking
Not a Girly Swot, but I like them....
thats the cunning plan, everyone is so busy sniggering at whatever-the-hell-it-is-on-his-head that he's probably bought the world for £6.84 and a punnet of Strawberries. he gets home, throws its across the room and laughs maniacly for a solid 20 minutes.
