Greek elections

[Coolfonz]

Brilliant! A left wing split. These always work sooo well.

When Ian Duncan Smith was rejected by everyone and their cat as Tory leader he didn't flounce off and form a new party, he waited until he had the opportunity to persecute poor people and then took his chance.

 

[Spanky Longhorn]

Are you saying these are the Mark Reckless of Syriza

 

[DotCommunist]

Brilliant! A left wing split. These always work sooo well.

When Ian Duncan Smith was rejected by everyone and their cat as Tory leader he didn't flounce off and form a new party, he waited until he had the opportunity to persecute poor people and then took his chance.

do you think tspiras should have stayed in place and delivered the more-of-the-same his party was expressly elected not to? Join fucking labour.

 

[Lefty92]

It's been a bit of a disaster for Tspiras and Syriza. Despite having a mandate from the Greek people to oppose austerity and tax rises, Tspiras was always setting himself up for ultimate disappointment. You can't want to stay in the Eurozone with the debt Greece are in and not expect to have to make cuts/tax rises to secure further bailouts. Tspiras had no option but to step down having failed on his commitment and causing a split in his own party. His tenure has seen the complete failure of the far-left to challenge neo-liberal, free market orthodoxy

 

[phildwyer]

His tenure has seen the complete failure of the far-left to challenge neo-liberal, free market orthodoxy

I think it's a failure of representative democracy. The Greek people made it quite clear that they wanted to confront neo-liberalism, but their elected representatives could not bring themselves to do so.

 

[Coolfonz]

do you think tspiras should have stayed in place and delivered the more-of-the-same his party was expressly elected not to? Join fucking labour.

No I don't think that. I think Syriza should have stayed together and the party could have fought it out internally, unseating Tsipras if needed/desired/whatever.
The only real winners from the split are the creditors.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

No I don't think that. I think Syriza should have stayed together and the party could have fought it out internally, unseating Tsipras if needed/desired/whatever.
The only real winners from the split are the creditors.

Rightly or wrongly, that's exactly what the main component of the new party wanted to do.

However, by calling elections Tsipras forced the split - snap elections allow him to deselect the "rebel" MPs and have an entirely biddable parliamentary group in place before SYRIZA hold a conference. That's the main reason why he called elections. It preempts a struggle in the party and a conference he might not have won at and guarantees him a united parliamentary bloc, exactly as his masters abroad have been demanding.

The Left Platform, the main component of Popular Unity, weren't planning to leave at all. They wanted to fight it out. The leadership around Tsipras moved to stop them from doing it.

 

[newbie]

I think it's a failure of representative democracy. The Greek people made it quite clear that they wanted to confront neo-liberalism, but their elected representatives could not bring themselves to do so.

Not really. What the Greek people made clear every time they were polled was that although there was strong support for the government, support for staying in the Euro was stronger, consistently expressed by 70 or 80% of the population. No democratic government (representative, delegate, whatever) could ignore that determination, nor create conditions to erode it in the timeframe available. Caught in that vice they did confront, but they were defeated.

 

[pocketscience]

New Gallop polls here:
Majority of Greeks Say Adopting Euro Has Harmed Country
:

A majority of adults in the country -- 55% -- said in a poll conducted May 14-June 16 that they think converting from the Greek drachma to the euro in 2001 has harmed Greece, while one-third (34%) said the common currency has benefited the country.

Shouldn't that headline read "34% of Greeks need their head examined"?

 

[Coolfonz]

Rightly or wrongly, that's exactly what the main component of the new party wanted to do.

However, by calling elections Tsipras forced the split - snap elections allow him to deselect the "rebel" MPs and have an entirely biddable parliamentary group in place before SYRIZA hold a conference. That's the main reason why he called elections. It preempts a struggle in the party and a conference he might not have won at and guarantees him a united parliamentary bloc, exactly as his masters abroad have been demanding.

The Left Platform, the main component of Popular Unity, weren't planning to leave at all. They wanted to fight it out. The leadership around Tsipras moved to stop them from doing it.

Thanks for that.

But won't Syriza lose votes to the new party and be less likely to form a govt?

Also any polls out yet?

 

[belboid]

Also any polls out yet?

all say neck n neck between Syriza & New Democracy, on about 26/27% each. The only one that ha explicitly mentioned Popular Unity had them on 10%, in third place.

 

[Coolfonz]

That hasn't worked for Tsipras then right?

 

[Nigel Irritable]

That hasn't worked for Tsipras then right?

No, it hasn't. It was a gamble by him that has so far ended up benefiting New Democracy.

 

[belboid]

The latest poll has them pulling ahead of ND by 5%, with Popular Unity on less than 3% (not enough to get into Parliament). A lot of undecideds tho

 

[brogdale]

all say neck n neck between Syriza & New Democracy, on about 26/27% each. The only one that ha explicitly mentioned Popular Unity had them on 10%, in third place.

After such a complete capitulation and betrayal, 26% seems an amazingly high figure to be polling at.

 

[belboid]

reports make it sound like there is a bit of a late swing to Syriza amongst the dont knows, enough for a 'win' but not overall. Popular Unity will just scrape into parliament

 

[J Ed]

reports make it sound like there is a bit of a late swing to Syriza amongst the dont knows, enough for a 'win' but not overall. Popular Unity will just scrape into parliament

Realistically if they want to govern they will surely have to govern with To Potami or ND, the end result surely has to be the Pasokification of Syriza and even more support for Golden Dawn.

 

[DotCommunist]

must seem shite, no matter who they vote for that 86 bn and all the nasty strings it comes with are going to be forced on them anyway. Democracy yay

 

[belboid]

Realistically if they want to govern they will surely have to govern with To Potami or ND, the end result surely has to be the Pasokification of Syriza and even more support for Golden Dawn.

looks 50/50 whether To Potami get in at all

 

[brogdale]

Early exits with Syriza
Syriza takes early lead in Greek poll - BBC News

 

[ska invita]

"
Greece's conservative New Democracy party has admitted defeat to Alexis Tsipras's left-wing Syriza in the nation's fifth election in six years.

The concession came as Syriza was given a lead of 35% to New Democracy's 28%, with 21% of votes counted, interior ministry data showed.

This would not give Syriza an absolute majority, and the party would need partners to form a government."

Not surprised by the win, but its pretty incredible on a variety of levels

 

[DotCommunist]

it suggests to me that despite being now tasked with handing out this EU mandated continuation of the shit deal, the electorate are not holding against tspiras or szyria. Suggests that Artemis Bloggs has seen syzria not as capitulating but forced and yet still the safer pair of hands to administer further austerity. Depressing.

 

[J Ed]

So Syriza/ANEL again it looks like?

No seats for Popular Unity

 

[belboid]

No seats for Popular Unity

2.83% at the mo, they could still scrape through the barrier

 

[Coolfonz]

2.83% at the mo, they could still scrape through the barrier

That went well then.

 

[J Ed]

Lowest turnout since 1945 apparently

 

[butchersapron]

That went well then.

What was success?

I need a proper answer.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Not really sure what the point of voting for Syriza is if they're going to implement austerity anyway?

 

[DotCommunist]

Not really sure what the point of voting for Syriza is if they're going to implement austerity anyway?

people thinking safest hands, at least they tried and were visibly slapped aside rather than just caved etc, they might still make it right etc?

but if the turnouts as low as J Ed says then I wonder how many are at home considering other options for the immediate future...

 

[ska invita]

What was success?

I need a proper answer.

ask a proper question