Gordon Ramsey

[pilchardman]

I didn't like the owner, either.

But over the series my impression of Ramsay (and I hadn't seen him in action before) is of an authoritarian twat imbued with a sense of his own greatness and infallibility.

Sparkles says: "His management technique appears to be break your staff by shouting and humiliating them and then gradually build them up how you want them". Was he ever in the forces? He has the armed forces personnel technique.

If I worked on one of those kitchens (and I've worked in a kitchen), I'd have hit him. (Admittedly, he looks like he'd have had no trouble in returning the favour, but still, he's got a problem with authority. It has to be his own).

 

[pilchardman]

Have you ever run your own business?

No, I haven't.

 

[hendo]

I don't know anyone i catering, head chef or not that gets more than £19k

It's not very much is it? Not for a professionally skilled team leader. I wonder how much "The Walnut Tree" and its ilk takes a year.

 

[pilchardman]

But anyway, according to Ramsay, it wasn't the second chef that was holding the buisiness back, it was the owner.

And what's wrong with telling people how to improve their performace? I'd rather have that if I was making mistakes than be shouted at then fired. If that's OK.

 

[hendo]

Right. And if you ran your own business and one individual was not performing as a team player and holding your faltering business back, you'd naturally keep him on forever regardless of the consequences, eh?

Have you ever run your own business?

There is a chilling Darwinism about Ramsay though. Both episodes I've seen involved Ramsay deciding someone really needed to be sacked inside the first ten minutes.
Both individuals survived, which indicates the people actually running the businesses involved disagreed.
Sure, he can clearly inspire some people for a bit, that was definitely true in the Lakes District episode. But the girl he met who he really thought could be something in a kitchen decided, in the end, to run a bookshop.

 

[aqua]

and I've been told I'd make a good teacher doesnt mean I'd want to though does it?

aren't these people allowed their choice too, he said he would have given that girl a job, I would have taken him up on it, she didn't

 

[Griff]

I wonder how much "The Walnut Tree" and its ilk takes a year.

It said on there last night, under the old management it was taking £3000 a week.

 

[hendo]

If I were the head chef I'd expect to be on a basic plus a cut of the profits beyond a certain level, ie, if my cooking brought big cash and PR I'd want it incentivised.

But Gordon seems to reckon you'll toil all hours for just for the love of shallots or something.

 

[Hollis]

There was an article in the Observer on Saturday about the series.. Apparently the restaurant from the first episode is now on the verge of bankruptcy.. while the one from last week has bookings up about 40-50%.

You can say all you like about Ramsey's 'management style' - but the truth is he's made a success in a notoriously unstable line of business, and as someone pointed out earlier, his staff turnover is very low.

I'd imagine in a kitchen you can't afford to carry dead weight.

 

[pilchardman]

You can say all you like about Ramsey's 'management style' - but the truth is he's made a success in a notoriously unstable line of business, and as someone pointed out earlier, his staff turnover is very low.

His place in his home town of Glasgow had to close, though.

 

[MarkMark]

He need a good bitchslapping to put him back in his place.

Never, never, never .... EVER trust a bloke with streaked blonde hair!

And if he thinks he can come into my kitchen and have a go at my curry, he's got another thing coming.

Apart from that he's a thouroughly nice bloke.

 

[Idaho]

And, just to get this straight, you are on the side of the management when they fire people?

Much as we'd all like business to be run to enrich as many meployees as possible - life just isn't like that. If your business needs 5 people and you have 6 people - a couple of whom aren't very good - one of them is going to get cut. In fact even if all of them are great - one of them is still going to get cut.

 

[J77]

Ramsey's attitude rules.

I'd vote him in as PM - at least he'd give the country a shake up

 

[ernestolynch]

More outside than in, Ern. Do you have any outside schools?

And, just to get this straight, you are on the side of the management when they fire people?

yep - i've worked for supermarkets, bookies, telesales, car insurance, building - and when some cunt ain't pulling their weight you want the boss to pull them up about it. That's the boss's job - not nice but there you go. I've tried management but I'm not that sort of person.

 

[Jenerys]

Sadly thats not so much to do with working for Ramsey as being a junior Chef.
My brother is second chef in a restaurant in Swansea and does those sort of hours and has done since he was 18. Hes paid 18k per year for over 100 hours a week and no overtime

My ex was a sous chef. He's 32 and is now head chef earning over double what Gordon paid.

 

[Juice Terry]

His place in his home town of Glasgow had to close, though.

In what way does a business having to close and people losing their jobs warrant the use of the cool icon

As the apparent champion of the workers I though you'd appreciate that.

 

[pilchardman]

yep - i've worked for supermarkets, bookies, telesales, car insurance, building

OK, well please stop assuming you know all there is to know about me just because you happen to know that for a short time I worked as a lecturer (on temporary, short term contracts). It wasn't even my last job. It was my second to last job, and one of the shortest ones. My longest job was as a WEA tutor. Working with people on their numeracy and literacy skills, amongst other things.

I've been made redundant twice. And for the legal minimum pay off, not big hand outs. I'm currently unemployed.

So stop with the Ivory Towers malarky. It is boring the pants off me.



On to staff issues. If I was making mistakes I'd expect, as a minimum, the following.

1) a clear and reasonable explanation of where I was going wrong.

2) a clear and reasonable explanation of how to put it right. What should I be doing instead? (it is best if this is explained well, and the individual isn't expected to guess what a shouty person is thinking, or read between the lines of a "bollocking". "Your head is up your arse" does not constitute useable information).

3) the opportunity to improve.


That, in my view, would be a reasonable approach. Mr Ramsay's approach, on the other hand, is unreasonable.

As I said above, I didn't like the second chef guy, either. I thought he needed to learn about the importance of other people. But nothing Mr Ramsay did would have taught him that, or even begun to point him in the right direction.

And last thing: do we know the guy knew clearly what role was expected of him in the first place?

 

[pilchardman]

In what way does a business having to close and people losing their jobs warrant the use of the cool icon

It doesn't. The cool icon was to show I wasn't losing my temper, and to indicate that Mr Ramsay's record was not infallible. The loss of jobs is of course very uncool.

 

[Hollis]

I think employment legislation requires that you're given a period to improve? Although admittedly in alot of business's I'm sure people leave because they know its just a formality.

From what I'd saw I'd say Ramsey was a far better manager than the Italian guy running the restaurant. Far better to be bollocked, actually get some good advice and be empowered. ( ), then just drift along doing a moderately crap job without really being told why.

 

[pilchardman]

From what I'd saw I'd say Ramsey was a far better manager than the Italian guy running the restaurant.

That wouldn't have been hard.

 

[J77]

The loss of jobs is of course very uncool.

 

[veracity]

First off, can I just say that when I've seen Gordon Ramsay interviewed, he's come across as an arrogant misogynistic prick.

That said, this series has vastly improved my opinion of him; he is very talented, an inspirational motivator and when required, totally ruthless. Although this may not fit in with our generally liberal views about how staff should be treated, I think in a kitchen environment his attitude gets results. I've recently had some experience of observing the running of a restaurant and can confirm that there are quite a lot of people like the chef at the Glass House - taking the money he's paid and taking the piss generally with a poor standard of food and a piss poor attitude to staff management. What are you meant to do with these people - coddle them, humour them and carry on paying them or tell them that they need to buck their ideas up or GO!

I still wouldn't want to interact with the guy on a personal level though. But he's good at what he does (and I'd love him to cook me a meal).

 

[hektik]

he got someone else fired last night.

but this time, i think the sacking was necessary - serving up deep fried everything, sauces out of bottles, and the title 'executive chef'

wot a plank.

 

[kea]

the guy wasn't fired, it said that he 'left' after the programme finished.

last nite was great - that purple paint job, euwwwwwwww! why on earth did they think that was a good idea

 

[hovis]

Last night was the first time I have watched the programme. I think Ramsay is funny. He seems good at his job and not vindictive like I thought he would be.

 

[Idaho]

Last night's programme seemed to me another chapter in the story of people starting businesses with absolutely no clue as to what they were doing. Those two owners... they just seemed not only bereft of any good ideas or planning, but the few ideas they did have - the paintjob - were rubbish!

 

[Jazzz]

the guy wasn't fired, it said that he 'left' after the programme finished.

Doesn't exclude the possibility that he was sacked. It's ambiguous.

 

[hektik]

the guy wasn't fired, it said that he 'left' after the programme finished.

my company sends an email round that says that people have 'left' the company when they get fired.

 

[Hollis]

The 'Executive Chef' had a business studies degree, was a crap chef, and gave the impression he knew it all.. very dangerous combination.

 

[kea]

Doesn't exclude the possibility that he was sacked. It's ambiguous.

yes that's true that it's ambigious. my point was that the person who said the guy was fired was incorrect, since the statement didn't make it clear if he was fired or not.
and i agree with hollis. as ramsay pointed out, anyone calling themselves 'executive chef' who hasn't ever been a head chef is a prat of the highest order. 'exec chef' is generally a role taken by a former head chef who either oversees several kitchens or who's the link between the kitchen and the outside world, in my experience (some of the current chefs on here might wanna correct me tho ). i alsohave a feeling it's more used in america - anthony bourdain is exec chef at brasserie les halles in manhattan for example but ramsay - who does a similar job with his restaurants - sneers at the term in general.