ska invita
back on the other side
the pub is in essex so its north london clubs for the north london expats
south londoners move to kent
Golliwog in the window - should this really be in court?
- Thread starter Corax
- Start date
south londoners move to kent
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I’m not doing that. Just mobs in pubs in football shirts.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
Wish it had been
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
You are, though. I mean, Dulwich Hamlets fans being like Millwall for Guardian readers, that's not "mobs in pub in football shirts." I mean, seriously?
This thread isn't about that in any way at all. Mobs in pubs in football shirts is a different topic. I mean, threads can change topic, but it always feels really off if a thread about explicitly racist attitudes splits off to ways white people can also feel threatened.
T & P
|-o-| (-o-) |-o-|
I won’t deny that there is a lingering apprehension among footballers about coming out, but whereas it is sadly true the first few ones to do are likely to receive vile abuse online, I can assure you (as much as I can do so as an educated guess from many years’ experience as a match-attending fan) that is extraordinarily unlikely any player coming out in the UK would experience abuse in most grounds.
There’ll always individual cunts about, but just as racial abuse towards players inside stadia in this country has become extremely rare, I really can’t imagine any player being targeted by crowds for being gay. Online, sadly very likely. But then fifty or a hundred cunts in Twitter out of tens of millions of fans are hardly representative of anything.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
Ah that was a joke about Urban’s Dulwich Hamlet fans, not actual football fans
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I was about to relate an anecdote about gay men in football that's actually connected to the town this pub story is about, but decided not to. Not the right thread.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
I hate football, and fucking despise the cash filled travesty the English Premier league and the men’s international game has become*.
But some of the blanket slagging off of football supporters is getting a bit shit. In the same way that few people on the left protest some quite dodgy old bill public order tactics when they are used at the footy it does seem there is a bit of an open season on declaring fans racist and misogynistic.
Not all football fans are racist**and, not all racists are football fans.
This site started as a football fanzine FFS.
* Unlike the oval ball game, as highlighted by the Corinthian ideals of my team Saracens. Oh wait…
** By a long chalk.
But some of the blanket slagging off of football supporters is getting a bit shit. In the same way that few people on the left protest some quite dodgy old bill public order tactics when they are used at the footy it does seem there is a bit of an open season on declaring fans racist and misogynistic.
Not all football fans are racist**and, not all racists are football fans.
This site started as a football fanzine FFS.
* Unlike the oval ball game, as highlighted by the Corinthian ideals of my team Saracens. Oh wait…
** By a long chalk.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
Yep, it's lazy, not very accurate and can be crudely classist.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
My point was how intimidating such displays are to ‘outsiders’. Football fans en masse are very fucking scary.
I tend to follow thoughts and discussions through as everything’s a conversation to me, so I forget I’m on specific threads - am happy not to carry on talking about football on this particular thread.
But well up for a discussion elsewhere about football’s dark side from an outsider’s perspective
I tend to follow thoughts and discussions through as everything’s a conversation to me, so I forget I’m on specific threads - am happy not to carry on talking about football on this particular thread.
But well up for a discussion elsewhere about football’s dark side from an outsider’s perspective
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
Indeed, I was going to write about being the last place it was acceptable on here to sneer at the working class.
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
^^^ This could be an interesting thread, but I’ve started too many recently.
ska invita
back on the other side
...against the petit bourgeoisie
Wish it had been
I saw a couple of bizzies get caned in the away end, felt a bit sorry for em the filthy pigs
*at Goodison
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
lumpen proletariat so it's ok, surely
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Yeah - just maybe a thread about racism isn't the best thread for it? I mean, it's not totally unconnected, and threads go on tangents, but the reason we have threads is so that people can dive back in later. If they dive back in to do this one and it's suddenly about white men not liking football fans, because there were some men in football shirts in a photo of the pub that's not related to the story, well... Someone else could explain it better than me, but it's not a good thing to do.
I was reading a thread on Reddit a few days ago about rough pubs in Bristol. Surprised to read about a supposed one, pretty central that had a golliwog on the wall in the pool room. Have actually been in there a couple of times but was unaware. It's right near a prominant historic church and couple of hotels. You can imagine wedding guests perhaps going in, if they're not put off by the flat roof thing. I won't name it cos it's changing hands and the new people might be sound. Seemed surprising because of where it is.
friedaweed
Me and me girl named Jane
No it was just a beer made from elephant piss.
They used to do a 6.5% version in Thailand which got banned
I would like to hear it.
My son is football mad, specifically Chelsea, and I must admit I have a certain impression of football things (while loving footballers physiques far more than the more commonly lusted after rugby players) that means I haven’t been as encouraging as I might’ve been. I’ve always found it faintly disreputable, and considered it undesirable as an interest - one of the kinds of reasons he’s had almost nothing to do with any of my fathers side of the family.
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
This thread seems to have taken a turn to sneering at working class culture IMO. If you don't like the banter in your local, you should pipe up.
I don’t think anyone’s actually doing that. I can’t speak for anyone else, but if I didn’t like the tone of banter in a particular bar I would leave and not return.
If that was to me, over what I said about my impression (while inviting someone to help me learn), then I didn’t ‘sneer at working class culture’, or even seek to draw a monolithic association between football and working class culture. I said I associated football supporters with negative things, with my fathers family*, as in uncles, cousins, etc. I am the only member of that family (I suppose technically my son is too, but he doesn’t really know them so it doesn’t really count) without a criminal record - something I hope continues, hence my not, for instance, picking arguments with strangers in pubs because I’ve overheard some ‘banter’.
*They do happen to be working class, but that’s not why they’re disreputable. Both my father and his father (but none of the rest of them) were talented artists, naturally brilliant with a sketch book and without the privilege to turn it into a living, which is just as much ‘working class culture’ as the liking for football that they all shared. And it’s specific to my case that their love of football went hand in hand with their love of a good scrap. That does colour a persons views.
If it was just a general accusation to nobody in particular, then I can’t say I’ve seen anyone sneering about working class culture. Only a couple of people assuming that football casuals = working class culture, and making an accusation of others motives from that basis. On the contrary, people have been open about their bias regarding football fans, freely admitting that’s it’s irrational and outdated, and hoping to change it.
I do have this instinctive association with football fans, in spite of myself, and I recognise it’s not the full picture - which is why I said please do share the anecdote. It sounded like it might be positive and happy.
Not everything is a battle, or a preparation for one.
If that was to me, over what I said about my impression (while inviting someone to help me learn), then I didn’t ‘sneer at working class culture’, or even seek to draw a monolithic association between football and working class culture. I said I associated football supporters with negative things, with my fathers family*, as in uncles, cousins, etc. I am the only member of that family (I suppose technically my son is too, but he doesn’t really know them so it doesn’t really count) without a criminal record - something I hope continues, hence my not, for instance, picking arguments with strangers in pubs because I’ve overheard some ‘banter’.
*They do happen to be working class, but that’s not why they’re disreputable. Both my father and his father (but none of the rest of them) were talented artists, naturally brilliant with a sketch book and without the privilege to turn it into a living, which is just as much ‘working class culture’ as the liking for football that they all shared. And it’s specific to my case that their love of football went hand in hand with their love of a good scrap. That does colour a persons views.
If it was just a general accusation to nobody in particular, then I can’t say I’ve seen anyone sneering about working class culture. Only a couple of people assuming that football casuals = working class culture, and making an accusation of others motives from that basis. On the contrary, people have been open about their bias regarding football fans, freely admitting that’s it’s irrational and outdated, and hoping to change it.
I do have this instinctive association with football fans, in spite of myself, and I recognise it’s not the full picture - which is why I said please do share the anecdote. It sounded like it might be positive and happy.
Not everything is a battle, or a preparation for one.
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kenny g
Sheeple Awake!
That's trying to avoid the substance of the post I was responding to which was particularly accusing West Ham supporters. I'm not one BTW as have next to no interest in the game but do get bored by lazy stereotypes.
RedRedRose
Well-Known Member
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That's not always so easy. If you feel outnumbered in there, best thing is to find another local. And even if you don't feel outnumbered, people often don't go to pubs seeking confrontation.
As for finding football fans as a group irritating, rugby fans as a group in a pub can also be intensely irritating, for the same reasons. It's not necessarily a class thing. More a certain kind of 'lad' thing that is found across classes.
IME groups of football fans are way better than groups of rugby fans.
(Saying that, the Glasgow-Edinburgh train after the Hibs-Hearts Cup final at Hampden a few years ago wasn't much fun but hey.)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Boorish 'laddy' behaviour can be worst among public-school types, for sure. Laddish posturing combined with a sense of entitlement.
equationgirl
Respect my existence or expect my resistance
I've never felt unsafe in a group of rival rugby fans, but can't say the same about football fans.IME groups of football fans are way better than groups of rugby fans.
(Saying that, the Glasgow-Edinburgh train after the Hibs-Hearts Cup final at Hampden a few years ago wasn't much fun but hey.)
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