Gerry Adams exposed , his lies demolished at brothers rape trial

[Casually Red]

Actually on the contrary
.

the contrary ..wtf

the promise of the massive arms shipments was used to buoy up the struggle, with many imagining it leading to a mass TET style offensive. Of course it was nonsense, the movement had been compromised well before that, the Brits were one step ahead.

thats pretty much what ive just pointed out, a minute ago you were arguing war weariness, now its tet offensive. So you now accept my point the grass roots werent war weary, but quite the opposite .

or is it they were war wearily looking forward to a tet offensive..god knows

Gerry Adams did a better job than this on the stand

The facts are that as much as many hate Adams within republicanism, most accept that the war is over and couldn't have been won, they might take issue with how it was wound down and the GFA but all but the mental dizzies can see the that they will never have a United Ireland by force

make up your mind, its the dizzies who hate Adams. There were no splits at any time over ceasefires, only political positions . The only republican leaders who castigated and ousted people over ceasefires were Adams and McGuinness back in the 70s as a means seizing unquestioned power . Which as soon as they aquired used as a means to remove future opponents and embark on a secret peace process behind a movements back .
What people take issue with ..right accross the board of dissident republicanism..isnt ceasefires but political positions . In particular one which legitmises British rule in Ireland conceivably permanently while criminalising Irish resistance to it, even retrospectively as recent arrests and jailings for events that happened in the early 70s underline . That legitimises the presence of British parliaments and armed froces in Ireland. And a political position which states the Irish people have no right to the unfettered ownership of Ireland , because the Queen of englands right to soveeignty in Ireland is apparently superior to the Irish peoples .
Thats why theres disagreements and splits from sinn fein . Ceasfires didnt do that damage to the republican position . The Sinn Fein leadersip did. Its not about going back to war, its about upholding the political position the nation actually has a right to exist as a sovereign entity and that only the Irish people acting alone have any right to determine their own future and their own sovereign ownership of wealth and resources . Imperialism has no right to interfere in this . Thats what its about .

 

[revol68]

This mythical nation that apparently stands above the actual wishes of the people within it's defined boundaries.

Face it the "nation" voted for GFA, they voted for the abolishment of articles 2 & 3 and that the boundaries of both Ireland and the UK would be decided by those under UK rule in the north of Ireland.

Basically you and the dissidents are butthurt because as usual the nation you claim to speak for doesn't give two fucks for either reclaiming their fourth field, nor for that matter do those in the 4th field wish to leave the UK.

But hey who cares about little details like that when it's Irelands manifest destiny...

 

[revol68]

Face it Casually Red you're just a nationalist with a hard on for militant posturing, there is nothing radical in your politics what so ever, as shown by your support for all sorts of reactionary scum eg the Russian Communist Party.

 

[Casually Red]

Actually most working class prods don't do that shit, most have just drifted away from the OO, leaving it to the most lumpen. Much as what has happened on the other side with the dissidents recruiting out of a shallower and lets face it lumpen pool than the provos ever had to. The dissidents at present have the leadership quality of 70's loyalists, whilst latter day loyalists have Jamie Bryson and Willie Frazer.

Right now as we speak loyalist flute bands ..pretty much all of them affiliated to one paramiltary group or another are seeing surges of recruits in unprecedented numbers. Membership of the PUP has tripled in the last year .
just a few weeks ago the dissidents as you call them were doing leaflet drops against benefit cuts in working class loyalist strongholds like Rathcoole . A few months ago unionist speaker Roy Garland was addressing the RSF ard feis . A massive anti inernment rally through Belfast city centre supported by all the dissident groups was so professionally stewarded there wasnt a single stone thrown by republicans or arrest despite a series of loyalist blockades and major provocations . And the loyalists were left to slug it out with the peelers .
Id suggest your simply not aquainted with the facts on the ground and merely airing your own uninformed prejudices . As you have been doing throughout most of your contributions on this topic . Id suggest you should reflect on that, and while your certainly entitled to an opinion you could maybe accept your strengths lie elsewhere .

 

[Casually Red]

This mythical nation that apparently stands above the actual wishes of the people within it's defined boundaries.

Face it the "nation" voted for GFA, they voted for the abolishment of articles 2 & 3 and that the boundaries of both Ireland and the UK would be decided by those under UK rule in the north of Ireland.

Basically you and the dissidents are butthurt because as usual the nation you claim to speak for doesn't give two fucks for either reclaiming their fourth field, nor for that matter do those in the 4th field wish to leave the UK.

But hey who cares about little details like that when it's Irelands manifest destiny...

they werent allowed to vote for a united Ireland . They already had done but that was ignored . They were simply presented with a choice of peace or war . Dont try and justify that fucking farce of a project and call it in any manner democratic . And then call yourself an anarchist or socialist in the next breath, ya fucking unionist hypocrite .

 

[revol68]

they werent allowed to vote for a united Ireland . They already had done but that was ignored . They were simply presented with a choice of peace or war . Dont try and justify that fucking farce of a project and call it in any manner democratic . And then call yourself an anarchist or socialist in the next breath, ya fucking unionist hypocrite .

As an anarchist the notion of nationhood means nothing to me, simply pointing out that the people in the 6 counties voted to stay within the UK.

You can argue that the people of all Ireland voted for a United Ireland but then that still leaves the issue of the right to secede for Unionists?

Basically no matter what way you cut it someones "nationhood" is going to be trampled on, as far as I can see there is no reason for one to win out over the other, indeed the majority of self identifying nationalists in the north aren't even for a United Ireland at present.

 

[revol68]

Right now as we speak loyalist flute bands ..pretty much all of them affiliated to one paramiltary group or another are seeing surges of recruits in unprecedented numbers. Membership of the PUP has tripled in the last year .
just a few weeks ago the dissidents as you call them were doing leaflet drops against benefit cuts in working class loyalist strongholds like Rathcoole . A few months ago unionist speaker Roy Garland was addressing the RSF ard feis . A massive anti inernment rally through Belfast city centre supported by all the dissident groups was so professionally stewarded there wasnt a single stone thrown by republicans or arrest despite a series of loyalist blockades and major provocations . And the loyalists were left to slug it out with the peelers .
Id suggest your simply not aquainted with the facts on the ground and merely airing your own uninformed prejudices . As you have been doing throughout most of your contributions on this topic . Id suggest you should reflect on that, and while your certainly entitled to an opinion you could maybe accept your strengths lie elsewhere .

I was more discussing the armed groupings.

As much class work as the dissidents take on the facts are they will never break out of the republican ghetto, the idea that prods will come round to a United Ireland en masse is as likely as the DUP winning nationalists over, not going to happen.

Time for anyone serious about class to drop their respective nationalist/sectarian baggage.

 

[Casually Red]

As an anarchist the notion of nationhood means nothing to me, simply pointing out that the people in the 6 counties voted to stay within the UK.

You can argue that the people of all Ireland voted for a United Ireland but then that still leaves the issue of the right to secede for Unionists?

Basically no matter what way you cut it someones "nationhood" is going to be trampled on, as far as I can see there is no reason for one to win out over the other, indeed the majority of self identifying nationalists in the north aren't even for a United Ireland at present.

well hard as it may be for a once lonely child to comprehend its simply not about you, or anarchism

 

[Casually Red]

I was more discussing the armed groupings.

As much class work as the dissidents take on the facts are they will never break out of the republican ghetto, the idea that prods will come round to a United Ireland en masse is as likely as the DUP winning nationalists over, not going to happen.

Time for anyone serious about class to drop their respective nationalist/sectarian baggage.

and accept imperialism , and its right to occupy small nations and determine their future . Thats not going to happen , full stop .

one minute your openly scoffing that todays republicans are no better than the verminous sectarians of 1970s loyalism, next your grudgingly accepting theyre going into working class loyalist ghettos to address common class interests and inviting unionist speakers to their conferences .

i dont want to make this a personal sounding dispute so ill just emphasise again. Your strengths appear to lie elsewhere and because of that I dont think anyone will be taking your advice on this particular subject

 

[Wilf]

By the by CR (or anybody else in the north) how much is the Adams story being discussed in the community?

 

[krtek a houby]

It's weird I kinda agree with what you say Revol but I'm still Irish and I have a nationalistic tendency which goes against my rationality but still I want a United Socialist Ireland and that's that lol.

Krtek - just because I don't agree with the path Sinn Fein have gone down doesn't mean I necessarily agree with violence. I'm a political 'dissident' and I don't have any qualms admitting to that fact.

Fair enough; I'm not saying go with the herd but the whole nationalistic thing (and unionism, too) is pretty much an archaic path to follow. IMHO, obviously.

 

[Casually Red]

By the by CR (or anybody else in the north) how much is the Adams story being discussed in the community?

i havent been out much since it broke so i dont know . And when people see me coming they usually guess correctly its an opportunity for me to be smug and say i told you so..i was right when you were all wrong So they keep the topic elsewhere.
The Sinn Fein TDs have rallied to Adams side though. And Ill emphasise again, suzanne breens reportage aside, the Irish media have been pretty woeful on the detail of this . Most of the stuff ive posted has been deliberately ignored by the Irish media , people simply dont know about it. Adams being under pressure for skullduggery is nothing new so its not earth shattering as yet. A decision to charge him will obviously change that somewhat. A decision not to will lead to a political furore coming, sadly, only from within unionism. Because by the mans own open admission he withheld the information. As did the current DPP who as yet isnt coming under scrutiny. The unionists will have a point in that regard if he gets a walk over this one . The NIO are protecting him from behind the scenes .

 

[Wilf]

i havent been out much since it broke so i dont know . And when people see me coming they usually guess correctly its an opportunity for me to be smug and say i told you so..i was right when you were all wrong So they keep the topic elsewhere.
The Sinn Fein TDs have rallied to Adams side though. And Ill emphasise again, suzanne breens reportage aside, the Irish media have been pretty woeful on the detail of this . Most of the stuff ive posted has been deliberately ignored by the Irish media , people simply dont know about it. Adams being under pressure for skullduggery is nothing new so its not earth shattering as yet. A decision to charge him will obviously change that somewhat. A decision not to will lead to a political furore coming, sadly, only from within unionism. Because by the mans own open admission he withheld the information. As did the current DPP who as yet isnt coming under scrutiny. The unionists will have a point in that regard if he gets a walk over this one . The NIO are protecting him from behind the scenes .

Thanks CR.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

but thats the thing, it wasnt a struggle for civil rights , the provos..and indeed the IRA in all its history wasnt into civil rights and was never about civil rights . The only legitimate basis the armed struggle had and ever called on was that it was a struggle for national sovereignty against a foreign occupation of the national territory . Nothing else . What they got could have been had back in the early 70s .

Well that illustrates what I was trying to say. The IRA didn't leave room for any other kind of struggle, did it? A civil rights struggle, for instance. And those civil rights only started to come once the IRA had admitted defeat wrt its aims.

 

[Casually Red]

Well that illustrates what I was trying to say. The IRA didn't leave room for any other kind of struggle, did it? A civil rights struggle, for instance. And those civil rights only started to come once the IRA had admitted defeat wrt its aims.

well the British state always knew they were going to have to be seen to give something in return . As they werent going to budge on, never mind discuss, sovereignty then it was only ever going to be equality issues . So All Adams and McGuinness succeeded in doing politically was delaying an equality agenda for a few decades . It could have been had at sunningdale, sooner even had the republican position been dropped then and a power sharing administration of devolved british rule embraced.
Of course the British side had the advantage over a very long period of time of knowing what Adams and McGuiness bottom line was . Unlike the people under their leadership . So knew in advance they wouldnt have to concede anything other than civil rights .Adams and McGuiness job was to deliver their people, mostly by persuading them they werent being delivered and this stuff was all window dressing .

and tbh the British state had already conceded most of the civil rights agenda by 1972 anyway . The orange state was gone by then, Britain refused to entertain any notion of one party unionist rule ever returning .

 

[Pickman's model]

Well that illustrates what I was trying to say. The IRA didn't leave room for any other kind of struggle, did it? A civil rights struggle, for instance. And those civil rights only started to come once the IRA had admitted defeat wrt its aims.

you do know you're talking shit you should be ashamed of because it's a display of such egregious ignorance?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You just liked a post saying this:

So All Adams and McGuinness succeeded in doing politically was delaying an equality agenda for a few decades

 

[Pickman's model]

You just liked a post saying this:

what's your point, caller? that that somehow makes you less ignorant? fyi: liking a post dors not mean you necessarily agree with every sentiment expressed in it.

 

[Red About Town]

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/the-lying-part-1.html

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/the-lying-part-2.html

 

[Casually Red]

to be honest lbj has a point, up to a point though, hes right and hes wrong. The mass concerted actions of civil disobedience by the civil rights people were pretty impressive and they did do a great deal to undermine the states legitimacy. Despite their ostensible aims and demands being not all that radical. One of their demands was that thered be absolutely no talks with the British government until internment was abolished . However the provos made a mockery of that by going to downing street for direct negotiations .
Bloody Sunday was really a nail in that coffin though. Mass protests werent going to be much use if they were just going to massacre the crowds. A rifle rather than a placard in your hand made a lot more sense after that. Squeezed between British and Republican militarism the civil rights thing eventually fizzled out . But what really killed it off was the actions of some of its founders and leaders in the SDLP . When they took their seats in the 1974 powersharing administration one of the very first hoops they had to jump through was enacting a law that permitted the state to claw back all rents and rates and hp payments that the nationalist community had withheld en masse as civil disobedience . The very people whod come up with the idea were now prosecuting people and having their dole surcharged for listening to them.
Thats what really killed it.

But LBJ does raise a valid point in my view of the provos failure to properly harness the civil rights activism. Its grass roots as always were way ahead of many of its leaders. While Bernie Devlin and many of the PD people were genuine radicals the humes, fitts and Curries were just opportunist scum .

Its always seriously bothered me too that John Hume was the man who personally organised the Bloody Sunday march in Derry. Without explanation he just didnt turn up that morning, and stayed in the house. The march was just up the street from his house , it was a massive and controversial affair before the shooting had started, but the local MP who organised it didnt attend . He later mumbled something about having a bad feeling something awful might happen, which is pretty ridiculous and even more reason for him to go there. My suspicion is someone like Oatley advised him not to attend.

He and Adams as joint leaders of northern nationalism were pretty much a dream team for the British state. Its no surprise they came to an agreement and even less surprise the people of the north have never been allowed to read it .

 

[Casually Red]

anyways Martin McGuinness is plainly not concerned, and at a black tie event this weekend he attended with the British establishment where he was part of the after dinner entertainment at the Queens official residence in Ireland he boasted of having the honour to have been allocated her suite and even her bed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-24488842

guess that makes him court jester as well as informant in chief .

 

[Casually Red]

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/the-lying-part-1.html

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/the-lying-part-2.html

a very good point made there is that without the guiding behind behind him Adams is pretty pathetic, and stupid .

 

[RedDragon]

Gerry Adams exposed...

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

 

[Casually Red]

an interesting piece here from Ed Moloney on speculation behind Liam Adams stint in the united states that Adams was telling lies about . It was 4 years prior to GA being informed of the abuse. According to the guy who was responsible for providing him with a new identity he was in need of getting some buckshot removed from his head. But the crown forces tend not to use buckshot . How on earth did that get there ? And why was it suddenly so safe for Liam to return less than a year later ? Most people had to go there for good.

http://thepensivequill.am/2013/10/why-did-provos-hide-liam-adams-in.html

 

[unrepentant85]

Seems like they were all covering things up in NI.

 

[Casually Red]

the british intelligence services themselves were pretty much running that house of horrors themselves, McGrath had been an agent of theirs even before the conflict broke out .

 

[DaveCinzano]

his twitter account this weekend after all thats gone on is just bizarre too.

Tonight he's been listening to a bit of the old Sinead O' Connor, and is now settling in for the second episode of the new series of Love/Hate.

 

[8den]

You're spot on and that's why RSF are the legitimate government of Ireland...

Ah ha ha ha ha ha good on... Oh no wait you Are being serious. Jesus wept....[/quote]

 

[Casually Red]

Tonight he's been listening to a bit of the old Sinead O' Connor, and is now settling in for the second episode of the new series of Love/Hate.

hows ted getting on

 

[DaveCinzano]

hows ted getting on

THAT NORAID MONEY WAS JUST RESTING IN HIS ACCOUNT