Gerry Adams exposed , his lies demolished at brothers rape trial

[Joe Reilly]

Tbf the "long war" was always a stupid plan the british goverment was never going to lose sleep over a few dead squaddies and if you ramped it up the provos would run out of gunmen before the british army did.

Which is why the attacks on the City plus the attempts on Canary Wharf proved to be such a game-changer.

 

[Idris2002]

Which is why the attacks on the City plus the attempts on Canary Wharf proved to be such a game-changer.

Which must mean that MI5 really don't like modern architecture, or Manchester city centre - else why would they change the game that way, the devious puppet-masters?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Some interesting comments on this Slugger piece by Mick Fealty:

http://sluggerotoole.com/2013/10/10...abuse-to-social-services-its-quite-something/

 

[DaveCinzano]

Breaking news from the man himself just now:

Gerry Adams ‏@GerryAdamsSF
I of those genormously busy days. pic.twitter.com/KuZ8fh6Lyk

• 6 Retweets
• 3 Favorites
• 

7:03 PM - 10 Oct 13

 

[likesfish]

Which is why the attacks on the City plus the attempts on Canary Wharf proved to be such a game-changer.

It so shocked the brits that they caved in and gave such massive concessions that ireland is reunited as a socialist republic.
Oh wait it isnt it

 

[Joe Reilly]

It so shocked the brits that they caved in and gave such massive concessions that ireland is reunited as a socialist republic.
Oh wait it isnt it

Even if negotiations had delivered 'Brits Out' it wouldn't have delivered a socialist republic. It would though be regarded as a significant opportunity in pursuit of that goal. In the same way that the weakening of the border and SF in goverment north and south would also signpost a pathway toward the goal.
Of course it is true that SF are not in goverment in the 26 counties, though many would no longer regard it as an out and out impossibility it was in say 1993. That is not to say that SF in government on either sides of the border would mean that over-night British influence was at and end but again only the one-eyed would present it as being strengthened.
Nor would it mean that the appalling vista of a socialist republic was imminent. But once again with the distraction of foreign occupation visibly beginning to recede, it might well prompt people might to discuss more openly, precisely the kind of a country that might want to live in given the chance.
Giving them that chance is really all any national liberation movement can ever hope to deliver.

 

[where to]

In many ways a silly comment, but Adams tweet writing style is really , really bizarre, and incongruous to his personality. Not the content (also bizarre) but the form. I thought it was a comedy spoof for ages.

 

[N_igma]

Aye his FB page is also weird as fuck and was like that for years pretty sure it's someone posting on his behalf.

That's not to say he's a not a massive cunt over this whole scandal or a complete sell out of the Republican cause because he is both

 

[cemertyone]

theres a mention of it in that article

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-get-me-to-gag-press-over-abuse-29639018.html

the local sunday paper has more detail on it but I cant find the online version. Ill quote direct from the paper i have in front of me .
But the cold calculating relationship he has with his niece and her family in reality emerged in court. While he didnt report his brothers rape confession to police for 9 years he did report Aines mother to social services having a dirty house and poor hygiene with her children . Sally Campbell was aghast when she heard for the first time what her then MP brother in law had done . She told the jury that while she hadnt much money or fancy furniture ..and her children like many kids at the time may have picked up nits at school...she had kept a clean and happy home.

thats pretty shocking......above...everyone knows what a cold calculating man he is ...but thats beyond the pale...i hope hes losing sleep over all this........just as well hes no longer MP for West Belfast i think he would be getting a prett rough ride over all this

 

[DaveCinzano]

just as well hes no longer MP for West Belfast i think he would be getting a prett rough ride over all this

Unless it was the sort of "rough ride" undertaken beneath blanket in the footwell of the passenger seat of a car wending its way round winding country lanes, I suspect many would not consider that commensurate with his behaviour.

 

[krtek a houby]

Aye his FB page is also weird as fuck and was like that for years pretty sure it's someone posting on his behalf.

That's not to say he's a not a massive cunt over this whole scandal or a complete sell out of the Republican cause because he is both

Giving him some credit, he did help bring about peace in NI/6 counties. He didn't "sell out", he just saw that a more moderate approach was needed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Giving him some credit, he did help bring about peace in NI/6 counties. He didn't "sell out", he just saw that a more moderate approach was needed.

You could say that he helped to bring violence to the 6 counties.

 

[Pickman's model]

You could say that he helped to bring violence to the 6 counties.

yes because the orange state had been remarkably pacific and the special powers act was - contrary to popular belief - a response to the provisional ira rather than a measure which preceded their existence. have you heard of gusty spence?

 

[DaveCinzano]

Giving him some credit, he did help bring about peace in NI/6 counties. He didn't "sell out", he just saw that a more moderate approach was needed.

A more moderate approach that involved adopting an ultra-militarist strategy to first seize the reins from political accommodationists then leading the Republican movement; a more moderate approach that called for increased military activity from under-trained cadres to (if you will) beard his own secret political accommodation moves and prevent neo-Adamses from deposing him; a more moderate approach that knowingly permitted criminality and gangsterism.

 

[krtek a houby]

You could say that he helped to bring violence to the 6 counties.

I think you'll find that the violence was there long before Adams was.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I think you'll find that the violence was there long before Adams was.

Yes. But was the IRA the right response? Or did they just make everything even worse?

 

[krtek a houby]

Yes. But was the IRA the right response? Or did they just make everything even worse?

Sectarian and religious conflicts will inevitably generate extremists. Was the IRA the "right response"? I don't think there is a "right response" in situations like these. Young Adams may have thought he was doing the right thing in being involved with the "cause", as did thousands of others on both "sides". But he eventually came in from the cold and misspent youth to help broker the GFA and push towards decommissioning. For that, at least, he has my respect. The rest of it? Well, I'm as disgusted as anyone else.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Sectarian and religious conflicts will inevitably generate extremists. Was the IRA the "right response"? I don't think there is a "right response" in situations like these. Young Adams may have thought he was doing the right thing in being involved with the "cause", as did thousands of others on both "sides". But he eventually came in from the cold and misspent youth to help broker the GFA and push towards decommissioning. For that, at least, he has my respect. The rest of it? Well, I'm as disgusted as anyone else.

Well clearly he thought he was doing the right thing. But there can be other kinds of responses. There have been other kinds of struggle for civil rights.

 

[krtek a houby]

Well clearly he thought he was doing the right thing. But there can be other kinds of responses. There have been other kinds of struggle for civil rights.

Absolutely. Let me be clear, I in no way condone violence, never had, never will. And I'm not an uberpatriot either. Adams and others took the path they felt was the only one they could. Not one I would have chosen but then I didn't grow up in NI/6 counties.

 

[Casually Red]

If they'd both been agents, we wouldn't have had the negotiated settlement we ended up with - which is not a return to Stormont no matter what the dissidents say. Instead, we'd have just seen GA and MM spread general mayhem through the movement, and the Brits would have rolled it up well before 1994.

id disagree strongly. For a start there was no negotiated settlement . The Mitchell principles were the entry fee to the negotiations . The democratic means enunciated there was wholly within the context not only of partition but the absolute and unquestioned legitimacy of partition itself . Before you could even sit down to negotiate you had to accept therefore that partition was a completely legitimate , lawful and democratic state of affairs to begin with, and by logical extension of that your own political position..that partition was a crime,a sectarian gerrymander, a gross violation of national sovereignty, an affront to democracy in Ireland , that the British state in Ireland had no right to exist and you had a legitimate right to resist a foreign occupation..was in fact undemocratic, and indeed criminal ,as your position ..the republican position..had no political legitimacy at all to call on after that . So by the time you sat down to negotiate the end result of those negotiations had already been decided. The British state was fully and unquestionably legitimate , fully democratic and the republican insurgency against it was an act of criminality . There was no illegal occupation, despite ten men dying on hungerstrike insisting it was the British state in Ireland that was criminal in nature and not Irish resistance to it. There was nothing left to negotiate, barring the wording of your unconditional surrender and the precise nature of the role you would play in administering British rule in Ireland.

And while your correct in stating the Brits could have wrecked the provos that wasnt the object . Thered just have been another IRA to contend with later, as there always had been .The objective was the ideological defeat of republicanism itself , not merely a manifestation of it. Of which the provos were just one . Adams and McGuinness delivered the one thing the British state had craved since partitions introduction, political legitimacy for British rule in Ireland .

 

[Casually Red]

And having a masterplan that you calmly execute over the course of an entire quarter-century?

ill post you a link later to Bigadier Oatleys masterplan written in 1973, although theres bits redacted. Im quite sure youll experience the strange sense of dela vu i had when i first read it .

 

[Pickman's model]

ill post you a link later to Bigadier Oatleys masterplan written in 1973, although theres bits redacted. Im quite sure youll experience the strange sense of dela vu i had when i first read it .

i look forward to reading it.

 

[Casually Red]

Well clearly he thought he was doing the right thing. But there can be other kinds of responses. There have been other kinds of struggle for civil rights.

but thats the thing, it wasnt a struggle for civil rights , the provos..and indeed the IRA in all its history wasnt into civil rights and was never about civil rights . The only legitimate basis the armed struggle had and ever called on was that it was a struggle for national sovereignty against a foreign occupation of the national territory . Nothing else . What they got could have been had back in the early 70s .

 

[Casually Red]

In many ways a silly comment, but Adams tweet writing style is really , really bizarre, and incongruous to his personality. Not the content (also bizarre) but the form. I thought it was a comedy spoof for ages.

its like John Wayne Gacy putting up some frilly net curtains to disguise the insane house of horrors that lies within . Its a deeply disturbed individual pretending to be normal at all costs .

 

[Casually Red]

In the same way that the weakening of the border and SF in goverment north and south would also signpost a pathway toward the goal.

im sorry, but with respect I take strong issue with your claim that the border has been weakened in any manner . Partition has been politically legitimised and can remain legitimate conceivably permanently .

Of course it is true that SF are not in goverment in the 26 counties, though many would no longer regard it as an out and out impossibility it was in say 1993. That is not to say that SF in government on either sides of the border would mean that over-night British influence was at and end but again only the one-eyed would present it as being strengthened.

again, with respect, all it would mean is that a political party which accepts the unquestioned legitimacy of partition is sitting in a British parliament in one part of Ireland and the parliament of a state in another part that constitutionally takes the position that British sovereignty in Ireland is perfectly legitimate and democratic and conceivably permanent.

Nor would it mean that the appalling vista of a socialist republic was imminent. But once again with the distraction of foreign occupation visibly beginning to recede, it might well prompt people might to discuss more openly, precisely the kind of a country that might want to live in given the chance.
Giving them that chance is really all any national liberation movement can ever hope to deliver.

the distraction as you call it hasnt receded at all . Its simply been accepted as politically legitimate, and therfore there is no foreign occupation and never was one . The Irish people under this arrangement simply have no inalienable..or any other type..right to the ownership of Ireland and never did have. The job of the national liberation movement at its bare minimum , even if it cannot physically acheive the objective, is to uphold the position that a national liberation question actually exists , that theres actually a nation that needs liberating from an illegal foreign occupation . Not to take the position that an imperialist occupation , and by addition its armed imperialist forces ,on ones national territory has full political and legal legitimacy and Irish people who resort to arms against that occupation are simply criminals .

Without upholding the position of national sovereignty there can be no political demand for the sovereign ownership of Ireland by the people of Ireland, and therefore no serious contemplation of socialism .

 

[Casually Red]

If they'd both been agents, we wouldn't have had the negotiated settlement we ended up with - which is not a return to Stormont no matter what the dissidents say.

it is a return to stormont, its the name of the devolved British parliament they administer British rule in Ireland from .
I take it you mean its a not a return to rabid orange one party rule at stormont, which Britain happily abolished back in 71 and made clear would never be coming back . That wasnt the problem republicans had with Stormont though and why they were killing people and being killed for decades after its abolition .

 

[Casually Red]

i look forward to reading it.

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/fco87_221_1.jpg

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/fco87_221_2.jpg

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/publicrecords/1973/fco87_221_3.jpg


a crucial thing you need to remember before you read that . Oatley is swanning about the Bogside and Creggan and Belfast no go areas at the zenith of the PIRAs armed campaign incognito passing himself off to the locals as an NIO civil servant and with no outward sign of protection or armed escort. In reality hes a British army brigadier and high level spook . And unlike many..but not all..those who met with him Martin McGuiness and gerry Adams knew precisely who and what Oatley was, because theyd been sitting accross the table from him in Downing street

 

[Casually Red]

heres Oatley pleading with middle england to give gerry and martin some understanding and patience as they try to do their job

http://info-nordirland.de/oat_eng.htm

 

[N_igma]

Giving him some credit, he did help bring about peace in NI/6 counties. He didn't "sell out", he just saw that a more moderate approach was needed.

1st wrong step - abandoning the policy of abstentionism in the Dail 1986
2nd wrong step - two ceasefires in 1994 and 1997
3rd wrong step - Decommisionong all weapons 2005
4th wrong step - accepting the PSNI as a legitimate police force 2007

Nothing but a bunch of sell outs and if the definition of a dissident is to go against the modern day narrative of the Republican Movement then call me a dissident!

 

[DaveCinzano]

Nothing but a bunch of sell outs and if the definition of a dissident is to go against the modern day narrative of the Republican Movement then call me a dissident!

Don't tell them your name, Pike!