Gerry Adams exposed , his lies demolished at brothers rape trial

[Casually Red]

It is a rolling back of history. For what the arrest is saying is that the IRA did not have that right. They did not have that right because it was never a just war. Not ever.

A shabby backstreet murder pure and simple. So at a stroke, the struggle as a whole is de-legitimised.

.

Joe, it seems to have whooshed clean over your head this is the very basis on which we dissidents rejected the Mitchell principles and the Belfast Agreement in the first place . Because this is precisely what it entailed and what we foresaw . The complete ideological defeat of republicanism itself. Its criminalisation, its delegitimisation . The struggle for national sovereignty cannot simply be legitimised up to one day and then become a criminal conspiracy the very next just because sinn fein say so . Its either criminal or it isnt. Either the British occupation is criminal in nature or the resistance to it is.

Only one side can ever have legitimacy .Theres no compromise on this issue, and the British side certainly knew that. The British cannot concede that the struggle against them up to 98 was legitimate because that would simply mean their presence was illegitimate, and theyd have no basis for conducting a treaty and violating Irish sovereignty in the first place. They would concede sovereignty.

Instead it was the Irish side , including Sinn Fein, who conceded sovereignty and the basis for acting upon the defence of Irish sovereignty and therefore the legitimacy of their actions. Implicit in those documents was the delegitimisation of Irish sovereignty and the legitimisation of British sovereignty. So that was the issue of legitimacy settled there and then. Theres no retrospective legitimacy and current illegitimacy. Anyone who told you this was a liar, and anyone who believed it had the wool pulled over their eyes. And now its plain to see.

The reason Im not hopping about now wailing indignantly this arrest has criminalised the national struggle is because I could have told you that already happened in 1997 when the Mitchell principles were accepted. And its why Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were kicking people out of sinn fein back then for pointing this very basic position and the inescapable logic out.

The lie Sinn Fein have spun to you is that the dissidents are criminals but those who went before not. British rule doesnt see it that way and never has. And the Belfast agreement certainly didnt either. An amnesty for certain actions is a very different thing from legitimising those actions . Those who criminalised Irish sovereignty in 1998 criminalised themselves as well, retrospectively an dinto the future. Its as simple as that. Bobby Sands family pointed this out. Its not like you werent told. You just didnt listen

 

[Casually Red]

My sole point of emphasis was that the dissidents see the arrest of Adams as a good thing.

So Ill ask you again. Who are these dissidents who see the arrest of Gerry Adams as a good thing ? Where have they stated this ?

who, where and when ?

very simple questions. Answers should be simple in turn.

 

[Casually Red]

fuck it, im posting this again


They were all told. They didnt listen, they laughed at the man . Now they have them exactly were they wanted them, just like the man told them would happen if they went down that road of reformism . Criminalised now at the very highest level and with absolutely no coherent or logical political defence against it. None whatsoever.



Anything Adams admits to in that barracks will be a criminal offence under the multiple Treaties he signed up to. The Mitchell principles, The Belfast Agreement and the St Andrews agreement. Any claim to be a political prisoner will just be laughed off by the British who can point precisely to the terms he accepted which criminalised his actions. And not just his but every republicans, then and now.
Thats why Bobby Sands refused to wear a uniform like hundreds of others. Why those men embarked on Hungerstrike. It wasnt to get Sinn Fein votes or to start a peace process, it was to uphold the struggles legitimacy and with that the nations legitimacy. And Gerry Adams signed the whole fucking lot away at the urging of Tony Blair, Bertie Ahern and Bill fucking Clinton. And silenced all those who opposed it.

The difference is I dont see Gerry Adams arrest as criminalisng the struggle like shinners do, an idiotic and illogical position. His actions were criminalised long prior to his arrest. I see that they already did that themselves many years previous. And now the brits are just rubbing it in. Quite the trophy, cherry on the cake .

And whats their response ? Blame the dissidents

Thats their only defence, blame the very people who told them this is what they were signing up to. The sad fact is they dont have a defence, theyve signed away the basis for any legitimacy in Adams actions and are just floundering about pointing fingers of blame everywhere and anywhere but at the source of it. The man who criminalised himself.

from 2 50 on, they were told. At length and in detail what would happen if they followed these bozos

 

[framed]

no, cheering them on would be doing what Martin McGuinness does when republican volunteers are captured by the occupation forces. Publicly congratulating the British forces in the media for a job well done and putting these criminals and traitors to Ireland behind bars for a very long time. Thats what cheering the PSNI on involves.

Me taking the position that a willing collaborator has become of no further use to the very forces he was legitimising and recruiting for, and therefore isnt deserving of a single ounce of my sympathy is a very different matter. I plainly havent congratulated the PSNI. I plainly havent commended their due diligence in upholding the law. Indeed their pretty disgraceful treatment of my own immediate family, only one of whom is even a republican, in very recent times and their ongoing harassment of my immediate family makes such a suggestion preposterous. But when I see those who have cheered that on now crying foul when it comes to their door my reaction certainly isnt going to be a sympathetic one.

My position is simple. Theres no good PSNI, theres no dark PSNI, no mythical bad apples . Theres just the PSNI. I dont cheer on the mythical good apples and condemn the mythical bad apples as a political con trick. I regard those who collaborate with them as collaborators . And dont even bother to play the smallest violin in the world when one runs foul of the rotten colonial state and rotten colonial system hes been upholding for many years now. Any more than I would if the HET pulled in Fred Scappittici or Sean OCallaghan for stuff they did in the past .

My position is the PSNI and those who run them shouldnt be there in the first place and that theyve no legitimacy that gives them the right arrest Gerry Adams in the first place. Gerry Adams has conceded they do have a legitimate right to be there, but just arent allowed to arrest him. Thats not a position I can support or have an ounce of sympathy for. And thats the bigger picture.

Your position sounds like a large dose of whataboutery...

 

[Casually Red]

Your position sounds like a large dose of whataboutery...

whataboutery would involve me saying the PSNI are doing a very good job locking up members of one party just because they arrested another. Taking the position that the PSNI have no right to be in Ireland in the first place isnt whatboutery. Neither is highlighting McGuinness hypocrisy when it comes to his slective criminalisation.
Pointing out hypocrisy isnt whataboutery. Its simply pointing out hypocrisy.

 

[Casually Red]

it seems the bold PSNI might be on Martins tail now too. Peter Rogers is claiming the PSNI have approached him and asked him to make a statement about both Adams and Martin McGuinness and the blowy gear. Rogers says he refused because it happened in the south.

Dunno what the gardais reaction to that will be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27262361

also a source close to ADams is claiming hes being subjected to 17 hour a day questioning

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-27272797

his supporters have put up a big mural to him on the Falls rd, proclaiming him a visionary.

 

[ferrelhadley]

Nelson O'Della....

 

[N_igma]

his supporters have put up a big mural to him on the Falls rd, proclaiming him a visionary.

Aye local Shinners polluting my Facebook page with that shite. Hashtagging visionary, leader and peacemaker was so tempted to hashtag murderer but then I'd be up for libel if I done that not to mention a bunch of Shinners yapping at me. Would've been a laugh though.

 

[LiamO]

you should read his chief of staff Johnathon Powells account of it.

So everything 'the Brits' say or write is complete and absolute bullshit... unless, of course, it happens to bolster your position... in which case it is Gospel... "on my life Guv. Jonny said it and he's an absolute Toff, so he is... and gentlemen don't lie Sir... so they don't".

Pathetic.

 

[LiamO]

Aye local Shinners polluting my Facebook page with that shite. Hashtagging visionary, leader and peacemaker was so tempted to hashtag murderer but then I'd be up for libel if I done that not to mention a bunch of Shinners yapping at me. Would've been a laugh though.

Yep. All them gullible tens of thousands... No, sorry... hundreds of thousands who will go out in a couple of weeks' time and vote for Sinn Fein.

All cunts, dupes and idiots... obviously.

 

[N_igma]

Yep. All them gullible tens of thousands... No, sorry... hundreds of thousands who will go out in a couple of weeks' time and vote for Sinn Fein.

All cunts, dupes and idiots... obviously.

Nope I'm sure the voters are normal people. It's Sinn Fein I'm annoyed at.

 

[Casually Red]

So everything 'the Brits' say or write is complete and absolute bullshit... unless, of course, it happens to bolster your position... in which case it is Gospel... "on my life Guv. Jonny said it and he's an absolute Toff, so he is... and gentlemen don't lie Sir... so they don't".

Pathetic.

well as much as it may obviously cause some annoyance with yourself powell was able to comprehensively prove that he and Blair had been writing Adams speeches for him in the BBC documentary Great Hatred Little Room . You didnt have BBC telly at the time but I did . Adams grudgingly admitted they had input . But Powells diary of the time shows it was verbatim , interspersed with clips of Adams delivering the speech. He also said something extremely condescending about watching McGuinness and Adams leaving the room after doing the deal to his satisfaction, and him feeling like a parent watching his finally grown up children make their way into the big wide world, extremely proud of them . Its in his book too, of the same name.

Now naturally enough youd regard this as the work of a hostile bullshitter , I fully understand that , your scepticism and your display of annoyance with myself . It would annoy me and ID be sceptical were I in your shoes . Its doesnt however seem to annoy Sinn Fein one bit because they still, sadly, regard him as a political ally and not the hostile bullshitter and untouchable aide to a war criminal you imagine him to be .

Because last year they had him as an invited speaker to their London conference, which would indicate they certainly dont view him the light you do. Him afterall being an intelligence agent and a Morgan Stanley investment bastard.

http://www.leftfutures.org/2013/09/adams-and-powell-to-address-ireland-conference-in-london/

and he accompanies them to the Basque country

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/29177

http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/kentfixi.htm

 

[Casually Red]

Yep. All them gullible tens of thousands... No, sorry... hundreds of thousands who will go out in a couple of weeks' time and vote for Sinn Fein.

All cunts, dupes and idiots... obviously.

what about the ones that vote for Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, Progressive Democrats, Jackie Healy Rae , Michael Lowry, SDLP etc in their hundreds of thousands ..or millions.. ? Cunts dupes and idiots or generally decent normal people who have poor political choices to choose from ?

 

[Casually Red]

Aye local Shinners polluting my Facebook page with that shite. Hashtagging visionary, leader and peacemaker was so tempted to hashtag murderer but then I'd be up for libel if I done that not to mention a bunch of Shinners yapping at me. Would've been a laugh though.

You could always respond to hashtag visionary with hashtag heneversawthatcomingdidhe ?

 

[Casually Red]

theres enda putting the boot in now too, reminding the shinners what they signed up to while hes at it

http://www.independent.ie/irish-new...ry-adams-to-cooperate-with-psni-30239005.html

 

[Joe Reilly]

So Ill ask you again. Who are these dissidents who see the arrest of Gerry Adams as a good thing ? Where have they stated this ?

who, where and when ?

very simple questions. Answers should be simple in turn.

The hole he's in is a direct result of dissidents naming him as an accomplice in actions in which they themselves took part. Price admitted that her statements were an act of revenge - 'score settling'. You yourself, cannot contain your glee.

 

[Joe Reilly]

To the best of my knowledge, a general amnesty was offered willingly by the British govt 16 years ago - and was declined by Republicans that it was not within their gift to accept it... as this would mean no Bloody Sunday enquiry, no investigations into state collusion with loyalists etc.

It may have suited the IRA. It did not suit the people SF represent.

This collusion etc - and the need for some elements to distract attention from this - is the driving force behind the latest shenanigans imo.

As well as McConville Adams is now being questioned in regard to IRA membership. There also calls in the Sunday Times for him to be interrogated on the Birmingham pub bombings...then there's Le Mon, Enniskillen and the Shankill bombing still on the books...

 

[LiamO]

what about the ones that vote for Fianna Fail, Fine Gael, Labour, Progressive Democrats, Jackie Healy Rae , Michael Lowry, SDLP etc in their hundreds of thousands ..or millions.. ? Cunts dupes and idiots or generally decent normal people who have poor political choices to choose from ?

So where's your political alternative?

I know loads of people, some former activists, many just normal punters who are crying out for an alternative to SF's tanky tendencies - but there does not appear to be one coming, does there?

 

[N_igma]

So where's your political alternative.

I know loads of people, some former activists, many just normal punters who are crying out for an alternative to SF's tanky tendencies - but there does not appear to be one coming, does there?

NI21 party

 

[Joe Reilly]

My position is simple. Theres no good PSNI, theres no dark PSNI, no mythical bad apples . Theres just the PSNI. I dont cheer on the mythical good apples and condemn the mythical bad apples as a political con trick.

That's just the flip side of the fundamentalist Unionist position. 'All republicans are terrorists'. But if in reality there are dissident republicans then it is logical there will also be dissident elements in the security forces. To try and deny that possibility for the purposes of political purity is just plain lazy.

 

[Casually Red]

Nelson O'Della....

or Gerry Acorah, givebn his propensity to channel the dead and inform us of their support for his leadership and strategy

 

[Casually Red]

That's just the flip side of the fundamentalist Unionist position. 'All republicans are terrorists'. But if in reality there are dissident republicans then it is logical there will also be dissident elements in the security forces. To try and deny that possibility for the purposes of political purity is just plain lazy.

your asking me to deny the British crown forces do as their bosses tell them . Their bosses are the British intelligence services, this arrest, like any other political arrest, is cleared beforehand at the highest level . Adams is arrested under the terrorism act 2000. That makes it a national security issue. MI5 in the north of Ireland have total primacy over National Security and determine very simply who gets lifted and who doesnt , so its been cleared at the very top beforehand . Sinn Fein agreed to this in the provisions of the ST Andrews agreement back in 2007. They signed up to this prior to their support for the PSNI, they agreed who the bosses would be. They are completely unaccountable to Sinn Fein and anyone else .

You lot have a Police Authority on which a number of your most senior members sit to hold the PSNI to account. You also have a Policing and Justice Minister sitting in Stormont to oversee them which your party appointed to the role. And your telling people now you are powerless against some mysterious dark remnants of the RUC and theres no oversight to stop them.

Thats absolutely ludicrous. The British security services have primacy here, not a few disgruntled peelers. And the PSNI are completely subordinate to them when it comes to all National Security issues . Your people on the Police Authority are so powerless and so toothless they couldnt even stop Hugh Orde from buying tasers.
“Unfortunately, the secret Security Service – implicated in past abuses – has not been so reformed and has been put in charge of a highly important area of mainstream policing. MI5 has primacy in covert ‘national security’ policing and gives ‘strategic direction’ to the PSNI in this area.

“Whilst the Prime Minister after St Andrews gave assurances that PSNI officers working with MI5 would be ‘solely accountable’ to the Chief Constable and Policing Board, this is contradicted by these documents which stipulate that PSNI officers, up to and including the Chief Constable, working on national security matters are not accountable to the Policing Board but rather to the NIO.

http://www.caj.org.uk/contents/1141

http://sluggerotoole.com/2011/12/21/a-sound-working-partnership-and-one-that-is-to-be-commended/

this has been cleared at the very top , the top of MI5, the top of the NIO, the top of Whitehall. Because thats who controls the PSNI and Sinn Feins role is simply to provide window dressing and the illusion of accountability and scrutiny were none exists. The PSNIs primary role is counter insurgency and defence of the realm . Theyre the foot soldiers of the big boys. And you lot are just wee boys now and have to carry on support for them . With no other choice.

Thats why the sinn fein spin doctors are breifing that its the dissidents who are responsible for this. As their supporters annoyance has to be directed from the source of that arrest and the reality of what the PSNI actually is and always will be.

 

[Casually Red]

The hole he's in is a direct result of dissidents naming him as an accomplice in actions in which they themselves took part. Price admitted that her statements were an act of revenge - 'score settling'. You yourself, cannot contain your glee.

Dolours Price, like Brendan Hughes, was an individual ex prisoner belonging to no one. She was not a member or spokesperson for any political grouping . Eammon McCann and Bernadette Devlin, former student associates in Peoples Democracy from over 40 years ago delivered the oration at her funeral . No republicans even spoke there . She wasnt a member of anything . And neither was Brendan Hughes, otherwise Adams wouldnt have simply never have been permitted behave as he did at that funeral .

I have no involvement in the Boston College project or with anyone involved in it . Nor am I a supporter of the PSNI, unlike some including Gerry Adams, or the British government and NIO whove cleared this arrest at the highest level , if not ordered it .

so your attempts to join dots here to expose this dark plot are worthy of David Icke or some other lizard exposer .

ludicrous stuff

 

[Casually Red]

dp

 

[LiamO]

You lot have a Police Authority on which a number of your most senior members sit to hold the PSNI to account.

Who is 'you lot'?

To the best of my knowledge there is not a single Shinner posting here. Not one.

But then that is your M.O wherever Gerry or Martin are mentioned. Anybody who presents any kind of an alternative view is a Sinn Fein mouthpiece/fully paid-up member of the GA fan club.

Credit where credit is due, it's been a fairly successful strategy for you It certainly stops me from engaging with you most of the time on here.

 

[N_igma]

Adams to be freed without charge. Wonder who he squealed on?

 

[LiamO]

You already know the answer to that question. If I were a bookie then 'No-one' would be the odds-on favourite.

it will be interesting to see how this ripples out, that's for sure.

 

[Pickman's model]

Dolours Price, like Brendan Hughes, was an individual ex prisoner belonging to no one. She was not a member or spokesperson for any political grouping . Eammon McCann and Bernadette Devlin, former student associates in Peoples Democracy from over 40 years ago delivered the oration at her funeral . No republicans even spoke there . She wasnt a member of anything . And neither was Brendan Hughes, otherwise Adams wouldnt have simply never have been permitted behave as he did at that funeral .

i was under the impression that bernadette mcaliskey, nee devlin, was well-known as a republican. certainly she seemed to be when i saw her at the green ink irish bookfair in london at some point in, i think, the late 90s when she gave a speech on why she was a republican.

 

[LiamO]

Dolours Price, like Brendan Hughes, was an individual ex prisoner belonging to no one. She was not a member or spokesperson for any political grouping . Eammon McCann and Bernadette Devlin, former student associates in Peoples Democracy from over 40 years ago delivered the oration at her funeral . No republicans even spoke there . She wasnt a member of anything . And neither was Brendan Hughes, otherwise Adams wouldnt have simply never have been permitted behave as he did at that funeral .

I have no involvement in the Boston College project or with anyone involved in it . Nor am I a supporter of the PSNI, unlike some including Gerry Adams, or the British government and NIO whove cleared this arrest at the highest level , if not ordered it .

so your attempts to join dots here to expose this dark plot are worthy of David Icke or some other lizard exposer .

ludicrous stuff

Another great post - creating and demolishing your very own strawman. Top class.

 

[N_igma]

Footage just released from Adams' interrogation: