German Politics (was Germany: Elections 2017)

[gawkrodger]

Graunaid suggesting a split between the more moderate [sic] wing and the right of the party. I don't know enough about them to comment on how large a split this could develop to be, but at the moment it does only appear to be 5 out of 88 mps

AfD leader quits party caucus hours after German election breakthrough

 

[Idris2002]

This guy made it back to the Bundestag, which is worth something:



He came from Senegal to what was then the DDR in the 1980s, to study chemistry.

After the wall fell, he made his name defending people who were being threatened with eviction from their building.

Some 'investors' from the west claimed that the flats these folks were living in were built on chemically contaminated land (Halle was a big centre of the DDR chemical industry, which it isn't anymore). Anyway, Diaby came along with his chemistry professor's box of tricks and showed that there was nothing wrong with the land their building was built on.

 

[Riklet]

So haben Deine Nachbarn gewählt

Dunno if it's been posted but an interesting map showing votes in Berlin.

CDU majority but strong Linke vote in the centre and former east. Also clear AfD gains in the outlying eastern suburbs and estates.

Perhaps someone who knows Berlin a lot better than me could help!

 

[Thimble Queen]

So haben Deine Nachbarn gewählt

Dunno if it's been posted but an interesting map showing votes in Berlin.

CDU majority but strong Linke vote in the centre and former east. Also clear AfD gains in the outlying eastern suburbs and estates.

Perhaps someone who knows Berlin a lot better than me could help!

It doesn't surprise me to see the AfD votes out east way. In Kopernick there was a lot of resistance to the building of a refugee shelter. I've been out that way for the football (union berlin) a couple of times and it can feel a bit hostile.

Unfortunately, Berlin isn't the wonderful melting pot that it's perceived to be.

My experience of living in Germany is that racism is more socially acceptable here than in the UK.

 

[doodlelogic]

Nice story from that MP in Halle. My other half's grandparents were in that constituency and rated him, so not everyone in the East is susceptible to the AfD propaganda. Her dad - well let's just say I don't want to have a conversation with him right now. I'd rather not know.

 

[love detective]

This one was so sudden it makes me wonder what the angle is, or exactly what little game they're trying to play here. . .

It's not that sudden - she effectively resigned back in April after losing control to the likes of Gauland and Weidal from further to the right of the party (who in the run up to the election were the two main figureheads of the campaign, you never saw a photo of Petry in any press articles it was always Gauland/Weidal) - she said back in April she wouldn't lead the campaign and wouldn't be their candidate for chancellor - so in a way it's not the suddenness of it all, but the fact it took nearly half a year for it to be formalised.

Shows the direction of travel though - Petry came to power in a right wing coup against the leadership a few year ago and has now been displaced through a right wing coup against her (which would explain why so far they've resisted going down the FN route of going hard on left wing economic rhetoric to expand their base, but at some point they will probably have to do that to make further inroads)

 

[love detective]

great victory for identity politics though - first the German far right had a straight woman in charge and now she's been replaced by a lesbian

 

[Idris2002]

Nice story from that MP in Halle. My other half's grandparents were in that constituency and rated him, so not everyone in the East is susceptible to the AfD propaganda. Her dad - well let's just say I don't want to have a conversation with him right now. I'd rather not know.

He doesn't stand for nonsense:

Senegalese-born German MP fights for re-election amidst hate, anger | Africa | DW | 21.09.2017

"So when he started receiving NPD hate messages, he also tackled the challenge head-on.

"To all racists: I am not your negro," he wrote on his Facebook page, and filed criminal charges against the far-right party."

 

[pocketscience]

It doesn't surprise me to see the AfD votes out east way. In Kopernick there was a lot of resistance to the building of a refugee shelter. I've been out that way for the football (union berlin) a couple of times and it can feel a bit hostile.

Unfortunately, Berlin isn't the wonderful melting pot that it's perceived to be.

My experience of living in Germany is that racism is more socially acceptable here than in the UK.

Can only agree with this.
You know when people go all starry eyed about how civil Germany is, that it's usually based on their experience of getting a decent beer (in a glass) at a couple of WM2006 games or being able to neck a handful of pills and dance for 48hrs through the weekend at Berghein.

Sure there are some cool area's that the tourists like to visit but they're becoming increasingly isolated - while the attacks on refugee housing projects across the country (probably spiking in 2015) are generally on the increase and not being adequately addressed by the politicians or authorities and certainly not by the MSM.

While totally crap, the racist/ xenophobic backlash across the UK after the brexit vote is a piss in the ocean compared to the shit that's been going on across Germany in the last few years.

 

[Thimble Queen]

Can only agree with this.
You know when people go all starry eyed about how civil Germany is, that it's usually based on their experience of getting a decent beer (in a glass) at a couple of WM2006 games or being able to neck a handful of pills and dance for 48hrs through the weekend at Berghein.

Sure there are some cool area's that the tourists like to visit but they're becoming increasingly isolated - while the attacks on refugee housing projects across the country (probably spiking in 2015) are generally on the increase and not being adequately addressed by the politicians or authorities and certainly not by the MSM.

While totally crap, the racist/ xenophobic backlash across the UK after the brexit vote is a piss in the ocean compared to the shit that's been going on across Germany in the last few years.

I saw a map marked with the sites of attacks on refugees homes in Germany in 2016 and it was quite shocking tbh. Particularly in context of this narrative Germany having dealt with its past so well and being so welcoming to refugees (!). Germany doesn't treat refugees all that well to be honest. The camps and shelters are a disgrace.

I'm quite concerned about what's going to happen next here. There are existing problems around institutionalised racism, including racist policing. I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

 

[pocketscience]

I saw a map marked with the sites of attacks on refugees homes in Germany in 2016 and it was quite shocking tbh. Particularly in context of this narrative Germany having dealt with its past so well and being so welcoming to refugees (!). Germany doesn't treat refugees all that well to be honest. The camps and shelters are a disgrace.

I'm quite concerned about what's going to happen next here. There are existing problems around institutionalised racism, including racist policing. I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

As soon as the results were announced Merkel made a statement along the lines that the CDU now needed to work hard at winning back the trust of the AfD voters.

How they intend to do it is any ones guess but my bet is it wont be by being nice to foreigners.

When you hear the likes of Gauland or Seehofer it's easy to get the feeling there are a fair few powerful people in Germany right now comping at the bit to get the fourth reich up and running.

 

[Thimble Queen]

As soon as the results were announced Merkel made a statement along the lines that the CDU now needed to work hard at winning back the trust of the AfD voters.

How they intend to do it is any ones guess but my bet is it wont be by being nice to foreigners.

When you hear the likes of Gauland or Seehofer it's easy to get the feeling there are a fair few powerful people in Germany right now comping at the bit to get the fourth reich up and running.

I went to see the NSU Monologues performed at a tiny theater near my house this evening. It's incredibly sobering viewing particularly given the election results. Anyone who has heard about thesw murders even in passing knows how institutionalised racism, corruption and straight up fuckery in the police has led the absolute farce of an investigation and trial. And that's without the AfD or their cronies having a foothold in the government. I was talking to a German-born WoC after the play who believes she, and many other poc, will have to leave Germany in the next years because the political climate here will become so so bad.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I saw a map marked with the sites of attacks on refugees homes in Germany in 2016 and it was quite shocking tbh. Particularly in context of this narrative Germany having dealt with its past so well and being so welcoming to refugees (!). Germany doesn't treat refugees all that well to be honest. The camps and shelters are a disgrace.

I'm quite concerned about what's going to happen next here. There are existing problems around institutionalised racism, including racist policing. I think it's going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

There's been a massive problem with both state and federal cops regarding racism for as long as I can recall. The French group SOS Racisme produced an excellent book in the mid-noughties detailing the utterly-appalling state of investigations into attacks on refugee centres, and on individual immigrants.

 

[Thimble Queen]

There's been a massive problem with both state and federal cops regarding racism for as long as I can recall. The French group SOS Racisme produced an excellent book in the mid-noughties detailing the utterly-appalling state of investigations into attacks on refugee centres, and on individual immigrants.

Thanks. I'll try and track that down.

 

[otzenpunk]

It's not that sudden - she effectively resigned back in April after losing control to the likes of Gauland and Weidal from further to the right of the party (who in the run up to the election were the two main figureheads of the campaign, you never saw a photo of Petry in any press articles it was always Gauland/Weidal) - she said back in April she wouldn't lead the campaign and wouldn't be their candidate for chancellor - so in a way it's not the suddenness of it all, but the fact it took nearly half a year for it to be formalised.

She was probably hoping for a bad election result, allowing her to blame it on her adversaries and take back control of the party.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

A veteran German anti-fascist gives an interesting analysis.

 

[camouflage]

He doesn't stand for nonsense:

Senegalese-born German MP fights for re-election amidst hate, anger | Africa | DW | 21.09.2017

"So when he started receiving NPD hate messages, he also tackled the challenge head-on.

"To all racists: I am not your negro," he wrote on his Facebook page, and filed criminal charges against the far-right party."

Sehr gut, nimm keine scheisse vom sie!

 

[butchersapron]

An excellent overview from the german wildcat - familiar and worrying. Do read the last two thirds if you can't be bothered with all the numbers in the first bit. This line jumped out as a perfect summation of so many things going on recently:

The AfD strategy consists of making social conflict cultural (»fighting Islam and gender-mania«). Our stragegy must make cultural conflicts social, without ever ceasing to take seriously the cultural dimension.

Something is seething in Germany

 

[Idris2002]

The Merk says it's all Irie:

Merkel pushes for three-way 'Jamaica' coalition in Germany

 

[pocketscience]

So the coalition negotiations have apparently broken down. Possible elections again.
According to the Beeb, talks stalled on immigration policies.

 

[weltweit]

While May was going through her troubles here, and of course still is, the last thing I expected was Merkel having her own problems.

 

[extra dry]

The wheels have nearly fallen off in Germany, not a pleasent end to the year, if true.

You would think as a German votor don't vote for far right or very right leaning parties, lunitics.

 

[redsquirrel]

SPD might be going back into 'grand coalition', whether official or unofficial. Filth.

“The two options now are for the SPD to join a grand coalition or to tolerate a conservative minority government,” said the political scientist Oskar Niedermayer.

 

[pocketscience]

SDP might be going back into 'grand coalition', whether official or unofficial. Filth.

I'm convinced Schulz is a CDU stooge sent in to put the final nail in the SPD coffin.

 

[ViolentPanda]

SPD might be going back into 'grand coalition', whether official or unofficial. Filth.

It's what the SPD do, the social fascist shits.

 

[camouflage]

Was in Germany recently, just want to note how disappointed I was that they refer to the "Jamaica Coalition", it should be the "Rasta Coalition".

Just think, a Rasta Coalition governing Germany. What sweeping new reforms might we have seen. Missed opportunity that.

eta that's wrong, no Reds in the coalition, so actually my point stands but in a different way.

 

[yield]

*bump*

SPD might be going back into 'grand coalition', whether official or unofficial. Filth.

Three months on and there are new talks about a CDU/SPD pact. Likely?

Under pressure, Merkel warms to coalition talks
January 7, 2018

The SPD, which had said it would go into opposition after its worst election showing since 1933, reconsidered when Germany’s president intervened. But the center-left party, among whose membership opposition to a grand coalition re-run remains strong, has been playing hard to get.

A group called NoGroKo, meaning “no grand coalition,” has formed within its ranks to campaign against working with Ms. Merkel again, saying that would cost the SPD votes and make the far-right Alternative for Germany, or AfD, the main opposition party.

 

[Slo-mo]

I don't follow German politics particularly closely. In fact not at all- I have enough of a job keeping up over here.

However I've just got one question that someone on here might know the answer to. Why don't the SPD, Greens, FDP and Die Linke form a coalition?

Are Die Linke considered too left wing for the FDP? Are the FDP considered too right wing for Die Linke? Or do they just hate each other too much to form a government?

 

[redsquirrel]

I think a better question might be why would four parties with different politics be able to form a stable coalition, especially when subset of the four have had forming/maintaining stable coalitions.

 

[Slo-mo]

I think a better question might be why would four parties with different politics be able to form a stable coalition, especially when subset of the four have had forming/maintaining stable coalitions.

Well, yes, four parties is quite a lot. Even three party coalitions seem to struggle.

But from a UK perspective I guess if Labour were in a position to form an alternative government, by working with say the LibDems, SNP and Plaid they should probably have a go rather than go into coalition with the Tories. From what little I have read, the equivalent option in Germany hasn't even been discussed?