General Election 2015 - chat, predictions, results and post election discussion

[little_legs]

Who are Britain? What a silly question.

pfffttt

 

[treelover]

Usually I vote for a leftist party. Much like reddit, I believe in people and want the best for everyone. This is what Labour used to stand for in my opinion.

However, Labour have essential become Tory-lite over the past decade or so and I lost faith. I decided I'd vote for Conservative as we need a strong government, in quite difficult times.

Ultimately, when Labour re-invents itself to be the leftist party it should be, they'll have my vote.

In all honesty I was hoping for a Con/Dem coalition, but it was not to be.

these are fascinating posts, does this guy really know what he has done, he has the right of course to vote for who he wants, but what a bizarre rationalisation.

 

[treelover]

What an absolute cunt.

Social Darwinist, there are more of them than you think.

btw, reading those posts it does seem there was much more support for the coalition then the polls ever manifested.

 

[oryx]

With a degree in Sociology, speaks fluent French. 2nd generation BBC. Strikes me as an intelligent person. Very ambitious, with common sense. Go figure.

You can't be intelligent and say you have a blanket hatred of poor people. The two aren't compatible.

Don't envy you working with her.

 

[treelover]

I think that these people believe in 'stability', I wonder what they will think when the social fabric really starts to fray and becomes visible, on the streets.

 

[treelover]

Voted Lib Dem, but 90% of the girls at my boarding school voted Tory. I think it is mostly because their parents are all very wealthy and pro-tory.

no such thing as class in society is there?

 

[little_legs]

You can't be intelligent and say you have a blanket hatred of poor people. The two aren't compatible.

Don't envy you working with her.

I am sure they don't mean hate as in truly hate. Dislike probably, or seriously annoyed with.

The thing is that she is very good with everyone in the office, helpful, and funny.

This gig is only until Aug 1. They cut the funding.

 

[coley]

With a degree in Sociology, speaks fluent French. 2nd generation BBC. Strikes me as an intelligent person. Very ambitious, with common sense. Go figure.

Aye, but without an ounce of compassion, but you seem to admire her, I hope you are never in a position where you will depend on the likes of her for your continued existence, then again.....

 

[little_legs]

Aye, but without an ounce of compassion, but you seem to admire her, I hope you are never in a position where you will depend on the likes of her for your continued existence, then again.....

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said I admire her. I think her position is despicable. But her view is real and she is not an idiot who just blurts things.

 

[kabbes]

Why did you vote Tory?

Have fun

That's interesting.

England as a whole does seem to me to be pretty right wing on a low level basis. The fundamental narrative is one of putting "the economy" (whatever the hell that is) first and foremost. So often, there seems to be a terror of the idea of the nation's finances being anything other than as robust as possible. There is an army of small business owners (Napoleon's "nation of shopkeepers") that kick against regulation or tax, even when its result would actually be to their personal benefit in the long run.

Yes yes, 33% don't vote. But I don't see any evidence that any great proportion of that 33% actually think any differently, on the whole. Some of them are disgusted by the system, but there's no reason to think that this proportion is any bigger than the proportion that vote for the proper left wing.

And yes, nearly half of those who do vote don't vote for Tory, UKIP or Lib Dem. But half do. And of the half that don't, a lot still buy into the same neoliberal perspective even though they vote Labour. That's why we can have a Labour to Tory swing. If you weren't right wing in nature, you'd never consider doing that.

That generic right wing narrative has been particularly allowed to foster from the 80s onwards by a well organised neoliberal assault on the collective conscience. Alternatives have been fragmented and incoherently presented by a media with vested interests in maintaining the neoliberal perspective.

There are islands of opinion that are not focused first and foremost on the economy but that sea of blue that makes up England must have some kind of root cause.

Only 35% of voters have got the government they wanted. But I'd say that a lot more than half have got the fundamental political philosophy that they wanted. And I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to address this, except very, very slowly.

 

[Batboy]

A few years ago I'd have agreed with you, and I still think that if Farage had been killed in that plane crash the Kippers probably wouldn't have got as far as they have, but the genie is out of the bottle now. They've got a much more coherent organisation, much more money, a much more identifiable brand, a solid voter base and a sense of momentum. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility it could all fall apart, but my guess is that unless they choose a complete idiot as their next leader then they're here to stay.

Not that I'm not smirking about Farage falling flat on his stupid face, of course.

I liken UKIP to the Social Democrats in the eighties (disaffected centre ground Labour) except they are disaffected Tories, in the end the social Democrats absorbed themselves with the Liberal Party. I don't see UKIP progressing far beyond where they are now and if anything they could subside. The difficulty they have is the only party they could absorb into is the Conservatives, but that is not going to happen. Farages days as a politician are I feel numbered, he was beginning to struggle with some of the hounding, backlash and criticism.

 

[bi0boy]

these are fascinating posts, does this guy really know what he has done, he has the right of course to vote for who he wants, but what a bizarre rationalisation.

I know someone who said much the same thing. They saw the two parties as very similar, the Tories as slightly nastier but more competent with the finances. She said there's no point voting Labour in for slightly nicer welfare cuts if they're a bit more likely to produce less economic growth. The Tory message of not being able to have a well-funded NHS without a strong economy seems to have hit home.

 

[gentlegreen]

A couple of Youtubers - a historian and a philosopher analyse what happened for 3 hours.

Spoiler: youtube video

 

[Belushi]

The result is only just sinking in with me, another 5 years of Tory rule, with a bloody majority this time, haven't felt so despondent about the future of the country since '92.

 

[butchersapron]

Oh, and the media definitely played some part in the tory victory, Evan was trying to make out on Newsnight, that Cameron had run a moderate govt run from the centre, and allowed the Tory on it to say it will continue on the path, its as if food banks, mass inequality, and suicides didn't exist.

Evan was referring mostly I think to social reforms like gay marriage.

oh, and why didn't labour highlight the shocking toll of the welfare reforms, more,

Who is Evan? Why are you mating him?

 

[ska invita]

oh, and why didn't labour highlight the shocking toll of the welfare reforms, more,

because they both started those reforms in blair/brown and bragged about taking them further still (at their last conference). Sadly these reforms are popular with the majority of voters

 

[butchersapron]

Yep, they facilitated this shit. Thatcher facilitated Blair, then Blair facilitated Cameron. It's depressing as hell.

There's a big part of me that thinks Labour needs to go, to be destroyed, the unions disengaging and starting over.

Oh yes. The unions are clean hand decent left wing. What is this fantasy world?

 

[butchersapron]

The authentic voice of a Tory(Boy)

leaving side the tory boy, some of those who voted Tory on that site, sound like you would see them at festivals, tech gatherings, etc, not social misfits.

These people have side always existed. You sound shocked to have finally came across them. You're fifty plus ffs

 

[butchersapron]

That's interesting.

England as a whole does seem to me to be pretty right wing on a low level basis. The fundamental narrative is one of putting "the economy" (whatever the hell that is) first and foremost. So often, there seems to be a terror of the idea of the nation's finances being anything other than as robust as possible. There is an army of small business owners (Napoleon's "nation of shopkeepers") that kick against regulation or tax, even when its result would actually be to their personal benefit in the long run.

Yes yes, 33% don't vote. But I don't see any evidence that any great proportion of that 33% actually think any differently, on the whole. Some of them are disgusted by the system, but there's no reason to think that this proportion is any bigger than the proportion that vote for the proper left wing.

And yes, nearly half of those who do vote don't vote for Tory, UKIP or Lib Dem. But half do. And of the half that don't, a lot still buy into the same neoliberal perspective even though they vote Labour. That's why we can have a Labour to Tory swing. If you weren't right wing in nature, you'd never consider doing that.

That generic right wing narrative has been particularly allowed to foster from the 80s onwards by a well organised neoliberal assault on the collective conscience. Alternatives have been fragmented and incoherently presented by a media with vested interests in maintaining the neoliberal perspective.

There are islands of opinion that are not focused first and foremost on the economy but that sea of blue that makes up England must have some kind of root cause.

Only 35% of voters have got the government they wanted. But I'd say that a lot more than half have got the fundamental political philosophy that they wanted. And I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to address this, except very, very slowly.

And with your finger out. Disgusting post.

 

[killer b]

One possible solution I can see would be Cameron allowing dissent over the EU. He makes a deal with France and Germany and presents it as the best thing to do, names a date for a simple in/out vote, but allows all his MPs to campaign yes/no as they see fit. It could backfire, but if he wins the referendum, he's silenced all his eurosceptic MPs for good.

What makes you think that? Surely the most recent example of a referendum demonstrates the precise opposite...

 

[butchersapron]

Unless the referendum is to leave he's shutting up precisely no back benchers.
In fact, he's making a problem that won't go away. They're not joking, the anti eu lot.

 

[chilango]

Hmmm. A snapshot of voters (well of those I talked to over lunch) from work:

Mid-20s Graduate 1: Labour

Mid-20s Graduate 2: Labour (Green Party member but voted Labour because of something Owen Jones wrote!)

Mid-30s Manager: Labour (but expressed suspicion that the Conservatives would be "better for the economy)

Early 60s academic: Labour

Late 30s teacher: Green

Late 30s Manager: Conservative (but Green in the locals)

Reflects the local area well, solid Labour with a strong (and growing) Green Party presence. Neighbouring ward solid Green, with Labour a strong but fading second. My ward saw 1600 Labour votes, 800 Green votes and the Lib Dems and UKIP barely registering...but

....but...900 Conservative votes "from nowhere".

No campaigning, no activists, no posters. No presence at all. i suspect the students contributed a big chunk of that Tory vote, but it still surprised me.

 

[SpineyNorman]

There's a young labourer at work who voted Tory (and helped them gain a seat from Labour) and I decided yesterday that the vermin majority was his fault and his fault alone. He's just a brown nosing cunt who doffs his cap and says yes sir when the owner is whining about having to pay tax on the money he's making on the backs of his staff abd the tax payer and hes always whining about 'scroungers'. Had a curry night before last and all day yesterday I kept farting in his face when he was bent down working. I also made him take up a manhole cover and rod a load if shit out of the soil pipes even though it wasn't even blocked. Was it bullying? Probably. But it was a kind of righteous bullying that gave me a nice warm fuzzy feeling inside.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Only 35% of voters have got the government they wanted. But I'd say that a lot more than half have got the fundamental political philosophy that they wanted. And I'm at a bit of a loss as to how to address this, except very, very slowly.

I still think that the Blair administration proved that it is possible to have progressive politics that appeals to people who aspire to owning a conservatory. Let's list out the achievements again: minimum wage, sure start centres, civil partnerships, university expansion . . . And all lapped up by Middle England.

 

[cesare]

I still think that the Blair administration proved that it is possible to have progressive politics that appeals to people who aspire to owning a conservatory. Let's list out the achievements again: minimum wage, sure start centres, civil partnerships, university expansion . . . And all lapped up by Middle England.

Not sure why civil partnerships got slipped in there.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Not sure why civil partnerships got slipped in there.

Seems straightforwardly a progressive issue and it certainly never happened under the 18 years of Tory rule that preceded Blair.

 

[butchersapron]

Morris doesn't see why it is his fault.

Isn't he nice and progressive.

 

[butchersapron]

List out. Not list, but list out.

 

[cesare]

Seems straightforwardly a progressive issue and it certainly never happened under the 18 years of Tory rule that preceded Blair.

Thatcher and subsequent Tory governments were regressive regarding gay rights, it's true.

 

[J Ed]

Thatcher and subsequent Tory governments were regressive regarding gay rights, it's true.

It's worth remembering that if it were left to the Tory Party alone during the last government they would have voted down gay marriage, yet they still used it to pink wash the rest of their policies with 'social liberal' dickheads.