General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[Teaboy]

So a couple of weeks ago it was Leicester and the general view seemed to be that the culprit was poor working conditions in some very sketchy workplaces. And where there have been specific outbreaks identified these have often also been workplace related. I wonder then how they're apparently so convinced the issue here is transmission in the home?

Because it always has been the single biggest means of transmission from day one. A lot of the stuff in Leicester was likely related to the living conditions as well not just the sweat shops themselves. Same with that outbreak on the fruit picking farm, workers were not contracting it out in the fields it was the overcrowded living conditions provided for seasonal workers.

Poorer people live in crowded homes. They also live in areas of poor air quality and are far more likely to have existing respiratory conditions. This should be undisputed and the government has to act to protect people. I'm not going to go into bat for the government on this but I do understand why they have done it.

 

[strung out]

It's Eid today, and many of the places going back into semi lockdown have high proportions of Muslim populations. Hancock says it's nothing to do with that of course...

 

[prunus]

But it's ridiculous, isn't it? You can sit all night in a pub with 50 people without masks but you can't have more than 6 people at a
picnic?

It is about the risk/benefit - eg it is presumably considered that the ancillary benefits to the economy of allowing in your example the pub to be able to continue operating is worth the increased risk of transmission (which definitely exists and is not not being taken into account), versus the as you imply probably smaller transmission risk of you having say 20 people over for a barbecue, which adds little to the overall economic recovery (all relative of course - it will add a bit, the odd extra bottle of Prosecco sold at the co-op for instance, but the co-op isn’t at risk currently in the same way as the pub is).

We can’t do everything, so we try to do those things that give the greatest economic benefit per unit of increased transmission risk. Whether the calculations are being done correctly no one knows, but one has to assume that they are trying.

 

[Teaboy]

It's Eid today, and many of the places going back into semi lockdown have high proportions of Muslim populations. Hancock says it's nothing to do with that of course...

Of course it's to do with Eid, of course he is lying. But we need to be careful about implying its just racism or Islamophobia or whatever. Its really easy to see the fear with Eid and the Government have panicked. Its probably better than just shrugging their shoulders like they did back in February and March.

 

[prunus]

You can continue going to the pub, and into your workplace on a bus, but you can’t have one mate round to yours for the cup final on Saturday.

You can go out for tea with them though. Be sure to use the ‘eat out to help out’ scheme. But also, remember you’re all still obese so cycle to McDonald's.

Just for accuracy, in the places where you’re not allowed to have other households over for the cup final now you are also now not supposed to go out to restaurants etc with other households; it is at least consistent in that regard. You’re also not supposed to meet in private gardens etc - ie back to those rules of a month or more ago, despite it being widely reported as ‘indoors’ - I suspect because Hancock tweeted it incompletely. I despair of the communications ‘strategy’ of this fucking shitshower of a government.

Local restriction tiers: what you need to know

Sets out the local restriction tier system that will be in place from Wednesday 2 December, including what you can and cannot do in each tier.

www.gov.uk

 

[LDC]

It's Eid today, and many of the places going back into semi lockdown have high proportions of Muslim populations. Hancock says it's nothing to do with that of course...

You not very subtly hinting he's timed these local restrictions to disrupt Eid?

 

[Teaboy]

You not very subtly hinting he's timed these local restrictions to disrupt Eid?

I think he has but not for the reasons that are being hinted at.

 

[LDC]

The recent research shows households, especially multi-generational ones, are a much bigger source of cross-infection than workplaces and social things like pubs.

 

[strung out]

You not very subtly hinting he's timed these local restrictions to disrupt Eid?

No, I'm hinting that they are scared of potential of potential family transmission during Eid celebrations but doesn't want to say so. Although announcing it on Twitter at 10pm the day before Eid is about as competently communicated as everything else the government has done so far.

 

[LDC]

I think he has but not for the reasons that are being hinted at.

OK yeah that was what I thought someone else was suggesting. I think they brought it in as soon as it became clear they needed to, although I think bringing it in just before an event where there was going to inevitably be some infection increase from is necessary and also somewhat shit for people it affects.

If it hadn't been announced as soon as possible it then risked people being further down their planning for Eid, so announcing last night means it got the news first thing this morning.

 

[brogdale]

The recent research shows households, especially multi-generational ones, are a much bigger source of cross-infection than workplaces and social things like pubs.

That would have to be very recent research, given that the pubs etc. have only just started to reopen in the last few weeks?

 

[Badgers]

You not very subtly hinting he's timed these local restrictions to disrupt Eid?

It would hardly be a surprise from this racist and incompetent disgraced government would it?

I want to be safe but the actions of the disgraced government and more so Cummings have told the public to make up their own rules. If anyone is fined for breaching a poorly communicated lockdown they win any appeal with ease due to the blatant failings, shocking examples and negligence of our disgraced government.

 

[Badgers]

risked people being further down their planning for Eid

The pubs are being shut too I assume? The 50% 'food stamps' will be withdrawn from that area of course?

 

[Teaboy]

That would have to be very recent research, given that the pubs etc. have only just started to reopen in the last few weeks?

Pubs and bars are bad we know that but its long been known for a long time that by far and away the biggest single form of transmission is in the house. I remember reading various articles about it back in March.

 

[brogdale]

Pubs and bars are bad we know that but its long been known for a long time that by far and away the biggest single form of transmission is in the house. I remember reading various articles about it back in March.

I see; established research.

I suppose the key difference in the two sub-sets of risk is that for physiological need we have to be in houses...whereas...

 

[Teaboy]

The pubs are being shut too I assume? The 50% 'food stamps' will be withdrawn from that area of course?

This is where the problem is. They adopted a blanket approach in Leicester but now seem to be more targeted. This of course does open up the inevitable accusations of racism and prioritisng industry over health.

Are blanket bans better even if you have good evidence that transmission is primarily occurring in a certain way? I don't know the answer to that.

 

[Teaboy]

I see; established research.

I suppose the key difference in the two sub-sets of risk is that for physiological need we have to be in houses...whereas...

I'm not arguing that the pubs shouldn't be shut I'm just pointing out that its obvious that the house will always be the riskiest place for transmission. The more people you have living in a house and the more people that come to visit etc etc. Its not hard to work out and the stats speak for themselves.

Some places in England have rates of 80 in 100,000 yet others are 2 or 3. Where I live in London is very low yet all the pubs are open and busy. There is clearly something else going on and ignoring that would just needlessly kill more people.

Perhaps they should just blanket lock down? Perhaps that is fairer? But attempting to limit the familial transmission is absolutely the right thing to do.

 

[strung out]

Also worth pointing out that this opens up another source of racial tension whereby the usual knuckle draggers will point to any breaking of the guidelines as proof that these communities are a big source of the problem, when you can bet that if something like this was announced at 10pm on Christmas Eve, there would be uproar.

See this from Tory MP Craig Whittaker

 

[Badgers]

when you can bet that if something like this was announced at 10pm on Christmas Eve, there would be uproar.

Our cunt government would never do that even it it killed thousands.

 

[brogdale]

This week's blame sponge.

 

[Teaboy]

It seems to me that its basically a lose lose situation.

 

[Badgers]

This week's blame sponge.

So far this week it has been European countries and BAME communities

Shocking but hardly surprising display by a disgraced government

 

[Badgers]

It seems to me that its basically a lose lose situation.

Welcome to Tory Britain

 

[brogdale]

So far this week it has been European countries and BAME communities

Shocking but hardly surprising display by a disgraced government

Hmm...2 sponges in a week? Things must be getting really bad.

 

[cupid_stunt]

No, I'm hinting that they are scared of potential of potential family transmission during Eid celebrations but doesn't want to say so.

There's plenty of reports that a lot of the new cases in the latest affected areas are from Asian backgrounds, because a high percentage work in high risk jobs such as health & care, taxi drivers & in warehouses, combined with them often living in multi-generational and often over crowded houses.

That's the fact, but something the government is clearly trying to play down, because racist twats will take the opportunity to blame the community because of their ethic background, rather than the real reasons.

British Asians fear they are increasingly being blamed for the spread of coronavirus which is fuelling a rise in racist abuse.

After outbreaks in towns with high populations of people from Pakistani and Bangladeshi backgrounds – such as Blackburn, Leicester, Blackburn, Oldham and Rochdale – Asian communities say they feel they are being ‘scapegoated’.

They argue that the spread of coronavirus is being blamed on race and religion, which ignores that people in those towns often live in the most deprived areas in terraced streets and are the ‘victims of circumstance’.

British Asians fear racist attacks during Eid due to high infection rates

Leicester, Oldham and Bradford have seen recent outbreaks peaking among Asians, often living in the most deprived neighbourhoods.

metro.co.uk

 

[Teaboy]

Can I ask what people think the Government should be doing with regard to localsied problems as we're seeing now? Clearly a better t&t system and one that is multi-lingual and has a better understanding of community dynamics. But what else? Blanket local lockdowns? National lockdowns?

What should they be doing in places like Blackburn, Oldham and Bradford?

 

[blameless77]

You not very subtly hinting he's timed these local restrictions to disrupt Eid?

given that Muslim leaders in Ireland have requested permission for 500 people to gather and celebrate Eid in Croke Park, perhaps the government doesn’t trust them to be sensible?

 

[Teaboy]

given that Muslim leaders in Ireland have requested permission for 500 people to gather and celebrate Eid in Croke Park, perhaps the government doesn’t trust them to be sensible?

Croke Park being outdoors of course.

 

[blameless77]

Croke Park being outdoors of course.

so 500 people gathering isn’t a problem?

 

[two sheds]

People going out to work/in public presumably have the risk of catching covid and coming back home to crowded conditions would spread it through the family so it's a combined risk of spread.