General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[existentialist]

I read somewhere that it was closed because there weren't enough NHS staff to keep it open, although I've not seen that confirmed anywhere else. Could they otherwise not have treated patients there to take the load off other hospitals who could have then admitted their usual patients, who've gone without treatment over that time?

TBH, if things had been a LOT worse (no credit to HMG here), then the decision to open the Nightingale Hospitals could have been one of those "stopped clock" moments (as in "a stopped clock is right twice a day"). From the point of view of the general criticism of Government policy, I think they're a bit of a red herring. Far more important are the logistics fuckups (like privatising the PPE stockpile to a bunch of shysters) and ongoing administrative dick-in-the-blender events post-pandemic.

 

[two sheds]

Indeed, like I say - no problem at all with them opening it.

 

[Badgers]

Rule Brittania

New Zealand's first Covid cases in 24 days came from UK

The two women had been given special exemption to visit a dying parent in New Zealand.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[elbows]

Rule Brittania

New Zealand's first Covid cases in 24 days came from UK

The two women had been given special exemption to visit a dying parent in New Zealand.

www.bbc.co.uk

Oops I just posted that in another thread, I was late.

If there had not been so much else going on in March with the pandemic here and elsewhere, there probably would have been more focus on the number of exported cases the UK was producing back then too. It was one of the signs that our epidemic was at a more advanced stage back then than the government scientific advisors realised, just like it was a sign in Iran and Italy and Spain that their epidemics were rather large.

I cant make the same claims on this side of the wave, except the obvious that levels of infection in the UK are too high to get away with too much complacency on this and other fronts just yet.

 

[zora]

Rule Brittania

New Zealand's first Covid cases in 24 days came from UK

The two women had been given special exemption to visit a dying parent in New Zealand.

www.bbc.co.uk

Mind you, why NZ would have not tested them given the respective states of the epidemics here and there is somewhat beyond me...

 

[Badgers]

Mind you, why NZ would have not tested them given the respective states of the epidemics here and there is somewhat beyond me...

Yup...

Regardless it enforces the international view of the UK as a 'plague island'

 

[Pickman's model]

Yup...

Regardless it enforces the international view of the UK as a 'plague island'

they will cry out 'bring out your politically dead' as they carry boris johnson out of number 10 and sling his useless torso on a cart

 

[frogwoman]

Seems a bit of a fuckup on the nz end as apparently they and others in the hotel were let out without being tested. *

 

[Numbers]

Seems a bit of a fuckup on the nz end as apparently they and others in the hotel were let out without being tested. *

A guy (can't remember exact title but a NZ Vallance / Whitty level/type) on GMB this morning said they were released from quarantine early for compassionate reasons.

 

[chalkhorse]

What are your thoughts on the Beijing outbreak, elbows? Do you reckon it's a sign of more to come? Or previous under-reporting breaking out, or perhaps both?

 

[planetgeli]

Just back from a day in your Urban London town (MRI scan at UCHL) and have to say I was pretty impressed with what I saw. Maybe influenced by the fact I spent a long time in and around a hospital but masks on public transport fully adhered to, plus I'd say around 50% of people I saw were wearing masks in public. Impressed with lack of pedestrians around Euston Rd and Tottenham Court Road, though not impressed with the traffic on Euston Rd. That's a lot of 'essential journeys'. But on the whole I felt safe and that people where I was are still taking social distancing seriously. Far more than where I live in Wales, where complacency has set in as we haven't been badly hit.

Trains were a joy. Roughly 10 people each way (Swansea - Paddington and back).

 

[Tankus]

Isn't this the week where we find out what the protests have done to us?

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

What are your thoughts on the Beijing outbreak, elbows? Do you reckon it's a sign of more to come? Or previous under-reporting breaking out, or perhaps both?

Seoul has been reporting similar daily numbers for a few weeks. Despite initial reporting on that, it doesn't seem to excite the media quite as much as fantasizing over a second wave for China.

 

[Roadkill]

Isn't this the week where we find out what the protests have done to us?

Incubation period is usually about 5-6 days, though sometimes longer, so if there are going to be cases as a result of the protests then yes, we'd probably start to see them around now.

 

[chalkhorse]

Seoul has been reporting similar daily numbers for a few weeks. Despite initial reporting on that, it doesn't seem to excite the media quite as much as fantasizing over a second wave for China.

OK - so are you saying second wave fears are exaggerated? Phew.
No one actually wants them, just fearful, surely?

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

OK - so are you saying second wave fears are exaggerated? Phew.
No one actually wants them, just fearful, surely?

When we say "second wave", I don't think it's very clear what's really being discussed. If we mean another moment where the virus has spread enough to cause a large amount of sick people who need medical treatment, then no, I don't think we can expect a second wave in countries like South Korea, China, or New Zealand; they'd simply introduce measures before that could happen.

Places like China and New Zealand and South Korea aren't trying to "flatten the curve", because that just means to let the sickness spread at a speed which medical services can handle. The same people die, but more slowly. But countries like China and New Zealand and South Korea are trying to eradicate the virus. They can't, probably, but they can keep levels very, very low, and because they're dealing with the virus at countable levels, they're not in danger of a second wave in the way the UK is right now.

South Korea, however, is having some difficulties at the moment. All credit to brilliant SK, they're trying to do this without a lockdown, but they're teetering, and I worry about them much more than I do China, because here, it just locks the fuck back down at the first sign of local transmission. I wonder, I really do, why China is getting so much more attention that SK here, and I am heartily, wholly, totally fucking sick of the phrase "fears of a second wave".

South Korea sees rise in untraceable COVID-19 cases: KCDC

One in 10 coronavirus infections here in the past two weeks had unknown sources, with a considerable proportion of them in Greater Seoul, health authorities said Monday. This is twice the proportion suggested by them as one of the standard metrics for maintaining “everyday life quarantine.”...

www.koreaherald.com

 

[elbows]

My decision to take a partial holiday from this subject this month (which feels like a total holiday compared to my normal quantity of posts) was in large part down to not wanting to get my brain crushed between two competing sentiments that I dont buy into - those looking for an imminent 2nd wave of dramatic proportions (often before the first wave has even finished) and those anti-lockdown types who fell silent on that theme for a while for obvious reasons, but inevitably started feeling emboldened to restart their dull shit as soon as the death rate in many European countries fell low enough.

I dont have much to say about Beijing except that I am glad we got to hear about it, they didnt try to hide that one. And yes it is annoying when the press give their attention in a lopsided manner, but I suppose its somewhat inevitable that there will be more focus on countries which have fresh outbreaks after going through periods with 'no new cases'.

 

[Teaboy]

I'm also sick of the phrase 'second wave'. I would say though that China is going to get a lot more attention because it has the largest population in the world. The implications are far far greater. They also seemingly had it first so are much further down the road so people may be inferring things from that whether its meaningful or not.

There is a lot of talk about India and Pakistan in the UK at the moment as you would expect and obviously the never ending obsession with the US. All have very high populations and are always going to be of more interest than smaller countries such as SK.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

There is a lot of talk about India and Pakistan in the UK at the moment as you would expect and obviously the never ending obsession with the US. All have very high populations and are always going to be of more interest than smaller countries such as SK.

I never seem to see any news about anything other than the UK, US and occasionally France - BBC news, especially Breakfast, seems to have completely forgotten about the pandemic and daily deaths and now just reports on shop openings and football games.

 

[iona]

I got a letter last month about taking part in this ONS study. Letter & participant info sheet say to phone up the company doing the testing and book an appointment for a healthcare worker to visit and do swabs/bloods. When I phoned I was told someone would call back in the next fortnight to book an appointment. Still not heard back, nearly three weeks later (will try to chase it up today but the ONS website's now saying you need to phone and ask for a call back just to register for the study). So that seems to be going about as well as UK testing generally has been.

 

[Badgers]

Not sure of sources here but some concerns.

 

[elbows]

Not sure of sources here but some concerns.

Well the meat processing plant outbreaks are worthy of attention.

I think that particular source is trying to overemphasise quite how recent that aspect is though, trying to add an extra layer to the story when thats actually a bit misleading and its a subject quite worthy enough of our attention even though its been apparent for way more than a few weeks now.

I havent got time to search to find the very earliest stories on the matter, so here is one from early May as a starter.

Why Meatpacking Plants Have Become Covid-19 Hot Spots

Frigid temperatures, cramped conditions, and long hours put meat processing workers at higher risk for contracting the novel coronavirus.

www.wired.com

 

[Badgers]

Cheers elbows

I had read various things about infections in the USA meat processing plants but not in the UK.

 

[Badgers]

Is there a massive class action suit incoming?

 

[two sheds]

Germany too - there was a story in a dutch paper toda (Volkskrant I think it was) but here's a uk story from May

Coronavirus: Virus outbreaks push Germany to clean up abattoirs

Ministers agree a plan to ban temporary workers at slaughterhouses after a spate of cases.

www.bbc.co.uk

Germany has agreed a proposal to ban the use of temporary workers at slaughterhouses following a spate of coronavirus infections.

Hundreds of people working at abattoirs across Germany and France have tested positive for Covid-19 in recent weeks.

Many workers have arrived from Romania on flights chartered by farmers.

Health experts are looking at possible reasons for the outbreaks, including overcrowded accommodation and cold conditions at processing facilities.

 

[Supine]

Cheers elbows

I had read various things about infections in the USA meat processing plants but not in the UK.

There was also a story about an outbreak in a mink farm. Maybe in Holland but I can’t quite remember.

Outbreaks in factories are going to be a thing for quiet some time I think. Some factories are very difficult to maintain social distancing so production lines will need to act like household units. Obviously this means the line needs to shutdown if anybody on the line goes down with it.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

on bbc news this evening

2 Sisters Anglesey: 158 factory staff have coronavirus

More than 400 staff have now been tested following the outbreak at the chicken factory on Thursday.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Mogden]

I did a brief 2 week stint in a meat packing factory at Xmas time. I can absolutely say that hygiene was NOT a top priority. Nor was keeping stock fresh. I still remember vividly the smell of slightly off turkey breasts as I mashed them flat and rolled them into decorative meat log along with pancetta, slightly dubious & pungent cabbage leaves and lumps of frozen sausage meat for what was presumably joyless office Christmas parties at pubs and event venues. It wasn't fresh when I was making it never mind how it was by the time someone had cooked it poorly and shoved it under a heatlamp for a bit.

As a result of corona I've now been made redundant and had it confirmed today. Strangely to some I'm over the moon. Not been there 2 years but with holiday owing and their week pay off and other things I've got a chunk to come and they're keeping me on furlough until August so I have to officially sit and do nothing job-wise until then

 

[Badgers]

I did a brief 2 week stint in a meat packing factory at Xmas time. I can absolutely say that hygiene was NOT a top priority. Nor was keeping stock fresh. I still remember vividly the smell of slightly off turkey breasts as I mashed them flat and rolled them into decorative meat log along with pancetta, slightly dubious & pungent cabbage leaves and lumps of frozen sausage meat for what was presumably joyless office Christmas parties at pubs and event venues. It wasn't fresh when I was making it never mind how it was by the time someone had cooked it poorly and shoved it under a heatlamp for a bit.

Sounds fun

When I did a few months working in an abattoir (1990s) it was almost spartan levels of hygiene. Still horrible but certainly nothing that would have worried me.

 

[Mogden]

Sounds fun

When I did a few months working in an abattoir (1990s) it was almost spartan levels of hygiene. Still horrible but certainly nothing that would have worried me.

It was chilly even for me who is a human boiler in the winter and a cool cucumber in this weather. The place I've just been made redundant from is pretty much next door to the meat place. There were chunks of meat in the boot scrubbers and people talking, unmasked, very animatedly over the meat. It was a couple of years ago but I don't think it would have improved. There is a general odour in the area in all weathers. It's as offputting as a stinky fish market