General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[Buddy Bradley]

I wouldn't do it, and don't think people should. But I do get why some people are.

How would you feel if one of them caught it and died in the 2 weeks after they visited you, that's partly what I balance things against.

I feel the same. You're also contributing to the general feeling that "well if they're doing it, why can't we" which is what leads to a total breakdown. If enough people around you aren't bothering to keep to the rules, you start to feel silly yourself for doing so.

 

[bimble]

I feel the same. You're also contributing to the general feeling that "well if they're doing it, why can't we" which is what leads to a total breakdown. If enough people around you aren't bothering to keep to the rules, you start to feel silly yourself for doing so.

I fully get that, and what LynnDoyleCooper said. They asked me last week and I said sure yes (I am very visitable because I live inside this national trust place that’s now re opened to all visitors) but am not feeling great about it. It does seem entirely mad though to say to them (a couple) only one of you can come. I think I will say I’m feeling a bit worried, not because of the rules just because what if.
But then that will be true for a long time, even after the pubs open and Johnson declares it safe to have parties again.

 

[LDC]

I fully get that, and what LynnDoyleCooper said. They asked me last week and I said sure yes (I am very visitable because I live inside this national trust place that’s now re opened to all visitors) but am not feeling great about it. It does seem entirely mad though to say to them (a couple) only one of you can come. I think I will say I’m feeling a bit worried, not because of the rules just because what if. But then that will be true for a long time, even after the pubs open and Johnson declares it safe to have parties again.

Have you said to them, or do they know, that it's not allowed under the rules? And that there is an increased risk to everyone? I guess also it's a bit depending on what they've done so far in terms of how essential it is for them. Like if they've been really strict and haven't seen anyone, and don't have anyone nearer to see, or if one wouldn't drive on their own.

Some breaking of rules by some people is bit more understandable for me. And those of us that can stick to the rules make it slightly more safer collectively for those in difficult situations to bend them slightly. Hence why I get more annoyed at friends who are doing fine, see plenty of people at work or in shared houses, then still go out and meet someone (before they were allowed to) compared to someone that lives alone, isn't working, and is struggling doing the same.

 

[bimble]

Just realised I’m unclear - is it against the rules for them (one household) to meet me (one person) outdoors?
They have been ok mentally but have only seen their grandchildren through the front window for 2 months, that seems to be the bit that’s upset them the most. I’ve been nowhere apart from for walks and weekly shop.

 

[Boudicca]

There are rules and there are risks. I understand the risk factors and I understand why the rules have been made. I am OK with breaking rules where I feel there are no risks involved.

I am not OK with people having BBQs in their gardens and not socially distancing.

However...

I have a good sized garden with a gate from the outside bimble and have had a friend round for socially distanced tea. I had two separate tables set up 3 metres apart. My friend has been out of the house for walks 4 times in the last 9 weeks. I only go out for shopping once or twice a week and sometimes for walks. She has recently turned 70 but doesn't have any of the health conditions in the vulnerable category. I am younger but do have a heart condition. We live in the region with the lowest Covid stats.

I won't go to the beach at the bottom of my road as it is too crowded. And now full of bloody virus-ridden Londoners.

I'm pretty sure my garden is a safer place than the beach or parks around here and also pretty confident that we pose very little risk to each other.

 

[Boudicca]

Just realised I’m unclear - is it against the rules for them (one household) to meet me (one person) outdoors?
They have been ok mentally but have only seen their grandchildren through the front window for 2 months, that seems to be the bit that’s upset they the most.

You would be breaking the rules a little bit less if you met them in the park rather than your garden. Also make them pee in the woods and don't let them into the house. So your only sin then would be meeting two people instead of one.

 

[bimble]

You would be breaking the rules a little bit less if you met them in the park rather than your garden. Also make them pee in the woods and don't let them into the house. So your only sin then would be meeting two people instead of one.

But the park is really crowded! (The paths). Your post is basically how I’ve been thinking. I do want to check in with them though make sure they know exactly which rules apply.

 

[Teaboy]

Just realised I’m unclear - is it against the rules for them (one household) to meet me (one person) outdoors?

I think its technically against the rules as there is more than one of them.

I can't advise you but I can say that I live in a small block of flats in an area where there are lots of flats though usually conversions from 3/4 story town houses. People share communal areas. If we want to sit in our shared garden we can't tell our neighbours to clear off so over the weeks there has just been a general consensus that as long as we're outside and distancing is observed its going to happen.

All around our area I see similar with residents stood / sat around in gardens or even car parks just chatting as neighbours. Distancing being observed meticulously. In fact in some ways its a nice sight because it has brought neighbours together in a way that's not happened before.

All of this is of course against the rules but that is the reality of the situation. In the urban setting where people live on top of each other and any space is often communal we can't just shut ourselves inside our homes with our own front doors and our own gardens.

What I would say though is the toilet issue. If it was me I'd make sure everyone knows inside of the house / flat is out of bounds.

 

[bimble]

I can quite easily disinfect loo doorknobs switches etc before they visit, instead of telling them to pee in the open air or stop at the service station on the m1 which tbf is not likely safer than here. All very complicated though, easier to just not. But I do think about the long term, the rules might change next week whilst the situation we’re in will be long.

 

[kalidarkone]

I can quite easily disinfect loo doorknobs switches etc before they visit, instead of telling them to pee in the open air or stop at the service station on the m1 which tbf is not likely safer than here. All very complicated though, easier to just not. But I do think about the long term, the rules might change next week whilst the situation we’re in will be long.

If you do that then also disinfect them afterwards.

 

[kalidarkone]

I let my son use my dining room/kitchen area so he could have some counselling (via zoom) in private rather then within his shared house. I was at work and he had strict instructions to clean the table and seat and door handles with bleach on his way out and put the wipes in the bin outside. When I came home (he had left a few hours before) I cleaned going into the house. However that wont be happening again as he has been gallavanting and taking risks.

 

[bimble]

Lol.

Groups of up to six people allowed to meet in England from Monday

Boris Johnson announces further easing of coronavirus lockdown measures including reopening of dentists

www.theguardian.com

So come Monday we won’t be breaking the rules.

 

[DaveCinzano]

So was there any maths or science that specifically informed this new six-outside guidance (why not 4 or 5, or 7 or 8?), or is it strictly back-of-a-fag-packet pragmatism - the smallest number that will demonstrate a change in policy without leading to a politically-indefensible rise in infection numbers?

 

[treelover]

Loads of cafes and pubs opening in the peaks, no seats as such but plenty of ledges, etc occupied peak car pars very little SD, city parks full of students, SD observed by most women but not some men. No loos open though whuch gets quite unpleasant.

Its nearly over tbh, for now.

 

[treelover]

MY friend, ex inf disease nurse, says we can get it sitting on park benches, etc.

 

[DaveCinzano]

Loads of cafes and pubs opening in the peaks, no seats as such but plenty of ledges, etc occupied, parks full of students, SD observed by most women but not some men.

Its nearly over tbh, for now.

Isn't 'most (wo) men' another way of saying 'not some (wo) men'?

 

[bimble]

So was there any maths or science that specifically informed this new six-outside guidance (why not 4 or 5, or 7 or 8?), or is it strictly back-of-a-fag-packet pragmatism - the smallest number that will demonstrate a change in policy without leading to a politically-indefensible rise in infection numbers?

Six is a good number for 1x average nuclear family meeting 1xset of grandparents, is all I can think of . So yeah, fag packet, let’s cheer up the populace or something.

That my plans for Monday have become legal overnight just reaffirms to me how we are all just going to have to make our own minds up for at least a year probably two as to how we choose to adapt to the risk whilst the gov removes their rules quickly as they think they can.

 

[two sheds]

Or perhaps one family of husband, wife and son in London say with sister, grandfather and grandmother in Durham say.

 

[DaveCinzano]

I imagine the Filth hate it - with 2 or 3 people a copper on their own or in a pair can deal with, but with 6 being the new magic number it's going to be larger groups they're going to be wanting to disperse, with greater levels of belligerence (nobody will want to be the 7th, 8th, 9th etc person, different dynamics as we get towards crowd psychology and so forth), leading to more calls for back up before anything is broken up, leading to more bravado, leading to increased levels of violence necessary to enforce the diktat, and so on.

 

[treelover]

Party with sound system playing on the street last night, accumulating cars and people (up to about 40) on the street and in and out of the house where the party was. Police came twice, first time about 5pm but not much changed. Second time about 10.30pm in more force, told the party in no uncertain terms to leave and stop it, which apart from 2-3 drunk men shouting abuse for a bit, they did.

Quite enjoyed one of the police pointing out the hypocrisy of the people having a 'Love the NHS' poster in their window and having a crowd round breaking social distancing.

NHS staff feel the same way, last one tonight

 

[treelover]

I wouldn't do it, and don't think people should. But I do get why some people are.

How would you feel if one of them caught it and died in the 2 weeks after they visited you, that's partly what I balance things against.

I’ve broken the rules by having more than one person round (in the garden not inside) and am planing to do that again on Monday (couple driving out to visit me, same idea garden and go for a walk).
Am writing this here to guage am I out on a limb with this or not. Do feel free to berate me. The couple planning to visit are old, sort of pretend aunt and uncle, and i do have a bit of disquiet about it, certainly won’t be hugging them but do I disinfect the bathroom in case they need to come in and touch stuff? Idk.

Completely understand if they were your age, yes, but they are very much in the at risk group, and will indeed need the toilet, etc.

 

[treelover]

I fully get that, and what LynnDoyleCooper said. They asked me last week and I said sure yes (I am very visitable because I live inside this national trust place that’s now re opened to all visitors) but am not feeling great about it. It does seem entirely mad though to say to them (a couple) only one of you can come. I think I will say I’m feeling a bit worried, not because of the rules just because what if.
But then that will be true for a long time, even after the pubs open and Johnson declares it safe to have parties again.

Completely understand if they were your age, yes, but they are very much in the at risk group, and will indeed need the toilet, etc.

Bit baffled here, statement with no mention of opening, etc.

News

Read the latest National Trust news stories and learn about our views on the issues that we care about.

www.nationaltrust.org.uk

 

[treelover]

I imagine the Filth hate it - with 2 or 3 people a copper on their own or in a pair can deal with, but with 6 being the new magic number it's going to be larger groups they're going to be wanting to disperse, with greater levels of belligerence (nobody will want to be the 7th, 8th, 9th etc person, different dynamics as we get towards crowd psychology and so forth), leading to more calls for back up before anything is broken up, leading to more bravado, leading to increased levels of violence necessary to enforce the diktat, and so on.

That filth will be my nephew, tx, who has dealth with people spitting and waving needles, during Covid, but hasn't done one DS penalty in Cleveland

though of course if he is ordered to use force, he will, esp on demos, etc.

 

[bimble]

Completely understand if they were your age, yes, but they are very much in the at risk group, and will indeed need the toilet, etc.

Chatted to her about it today and she was quite cross thinking I might be suggesting that she didn’t know that our plan was against the (pre Monday) rules, she explained that she knows the rules perfectly well and would like to bring a socially distanced picnic to eat in my garden. It’s safer here than in the park. I’m not going to tell them they can’t use my loo and should go to the public toilet in the park instead I’m just going to clean everything very well.

We are all going to have to make our own judgements, that sounds individualistic but look how they’re prioritising opening estate agents and car dealerships, it’s going to be silly to outsource your responsibility to the government imo.

 

[bimble]

Bit baffled here, statement with no mention of opening, etc.

News

Read the latest National Trust news stories and learn about our views on the issues that we care about.

www.nationaltrust.org.uk

yes. They’re not advertising it but they (nt) opened the gate almost 2 weeks ago here, as people were parking unsafely all along the access road. It’s crazy busy.

 

[Mogden]

I still don't understand how people can't see that nothing has changed. We have no vaccine. We still don't accurately know how far it spreads, how easily it can be caught from surfaces. We don't have accurate and consistent testing. There is no way to know who has it on sight of them. Suddenly bustling about in the sunshine with 5 other people, next to a group doing the same and another group on the other side of your group, is okay now?

 

[bimble]

I still don't understand how people can't see that nothing has changed. We have no vaccine. We still don't accurately know how far it spreads, how easily it can be caught from surfaces. We don't have accurate and consistent testing. There is no way to know who has it on sight of them. Suddenly bustling about in the sunshine with 5 other people, next to a group doing the same and another group on the other side of your group, is okay now?

Nothing has materially changed but that could be the case for many years. I think it’ll be a series of loosenings and tightening of the rules for quite a long time.

 

[Mogden]

Nothing has materially changed but that could be the case for many years. I think it’ll be a series of loosenings and tightening of the rules for quite a long time.

Yes it's going to be back and forth but loosening would be 3 people meeting rather than 2, so parents and grown child or grandparents with grandkid. Not let's have a street party cos as long we're in groups of 6 it doesn't matter.

 

[campanula]

We drove to Norfolk and met my grand-daughter and daughter (who have been assessed by medics and told, that in the absence of tests, they have most likely had Corona. I am not really very conflicted about this tbh since we did not leave the truck till we were in the woods (did no petrol filling or shopping), kept a distance outside and went home again. I arrived home with all the Scummings stuff going on but maintain there is absolutely no comparison beyween his actions and mine. I am perfectly capable of making a decision which takes community health into full consideration...and doing so because I am a responsible person...not because it is a 'rule'.

 

[LDC]

I think saying 6 basically means it's effectively unenforceable tbh, at least unless it's obviously large gatherings, but most groups will be ignored. Relies on self-policing, which will probably be OK in many ways, but we'll definitely continue to get significant (but lower) infection and death rates across the country. Also think it's clear that we'll get localized lockdown when some areas surge in cases.