General Coronavirus (COVID-19) chat

[chainsawjob]

Yeah, I've read something along those lines too Teaboy, that masks give a false sense of security and are counterproductive cos they're often not used correctly. I was thinking my main motivation for covering my face was in case I've got it, so as not to breathe it onto anyone else. It was the first time I'd worn a mask and tbh yes there was a lot of adjusting and it falling down. My hands were gloved, but once you've touched things with them that makes no difference. I wore regular woolly gloves, and then put them somewhere where I won't touch them for several days, might wash them. Latex gloves seem tricky to take off without touching the outside of them, I read a info thing on how to put them on and take them off properly somewhere. Again if they're not used properly they may be more of a risk than a protection.

Yesterday was the first time I'd seen anyone in a mask (waiting at a bus stop), I've barely been out though and live in a small place. In the store there were very few of us in them, and although most people were trying to be careful, a handful weren't making any effort at all, including a mum with a 7/8 year old who was just skipping around all over the place. Not everyone was taking notice of 'don't bring anyone else shopping with you unless you're unable to do it by yourself', or (as with a young child) they have to come with you because there's no one else can have them.

 

[SpookyFrank]

NFU vice president was calling for exception to minimum wage for fruit & veg pickers yesterday

Fucking scumbag.

Does he want to pick sprouts for less than minimum wage? Yeah, thought not.

 

[Sue]

NFU vice president was calling for exception to minimum wage for fruit & veg pickers yesterday

My first thought on reading your comment was that they were wanting to pay them more than minimum wage, given the potential shortage of people to do the work but no.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

My first thought on reading your comment was that they were wanting to pay them more than minimum wage, given the potential shortage of people to do the work but no.

lol - pretty sure there's no barrier to paying your workers more than minimum wage.

 

[Sue]

lol - pretty sure there's no barrier to paying your workers more than minimum wage.

Some employers do seem to treat it as more like a maximum wage for some jobs these days...

 

[two sheds]

Hmmm.

I was abroad (SE Asia) when the shit really started hitting the fan with all this and moving around countries and airports I saw a lot of people wearing masks. The conclusion I came to is broadly the UK government has the right line on this.

I saw a lot of masks being worn as chin warmers. I saw people taking masks down to talk, to drink and to eat. I saw people constantly adjusting their masks and I even saw a few people lifting the mask to their face every time they passed near someone. In short I saw people with masks constantly touching their faces, far more than people without.

I came to the conclusion that unless you're extremely disciplined with mask use (and that is put them on and don't touch them again) then the use of masks is actually counter productive. There is also the other issue that we know the virus can live on surfaces for a number of days (depending on the surface). If your mask isn't brand new and sterilized who's to say the mask itself isn't contaminated and in that case you're about to have it attached to your mouth and nose for how many hours...? That seems a sure fire way to get ill and far more dangerous then brushing your nose with your sleeve.

Another weird thing I've noticed recently was when I had to go to the supermarket, the mask wearers were one of the worst groups for not respecting distancing, like the masks gave them super immunity or something. Make of that what you will.

My conclusion. Unless you're in a medical setting just make sure you don't touch your face and regularly wash your hands.

Interesting post, and I'd find a mask all the time really uncomfortable.

I saw people taking masks down to talk to drink and to eat.

Bit messy otherwise though

And I'm still trying to find that interview someone posted with a news anchor handing over to the woman reporter wearing a mask for some enlightening coronavirus comments. Anyone?

 

[Dogsauce]

NFU vice president was calling for exception to minimum wage for fruit & veg pickers yesterday

Think I made a prediction a few weeks ago that we’d start seeing this kind of crap, though sort of expecting it to come from the government. It’ll be sold under the guise of ‘helping out struggling businesses in the National Interest’. Expect all kinds of nasty shit while we ‘get back on our feet again’ (for the benefit of those with their boot on our throats). Like ten years of Austerity and we’re still having to make cuts.

 

[Dogsauce]

& in the short term making it easier/cheaper to sack people might also help businesses out, surprised that one hasn’t been spun out by the CBI or similar yet. Maybe they’re afraid of us, we can always cough at them.

 

[crossthebreeze]

Think I made a prediction a few weeks ago that we’d start seeing this kind of crap, though sort of expecting it to come from the government. It’ll be sold under the guise of ‘helping out struggling businesses in the National Interest’. Expect all kinds of nasty shit while we ‘get back on our feet again’ (for the benefit of those with their boot on our throats). Like ten years of Austerity and we’re still having to make cuts.

Yes I figure that with fruit and veg industry they have realised that there's a lot of people that have become unemployed and have sunk through the cracks of the various compensation schemes (so that labour might not actually be in as short supply as is being advertised). But also there is so much talk on this issue from various people (especially on twitter) - whether they're "Buy British" brexiters or people concerned about food sustainability - plus of course those anti-brexiters happy to go along with stereotype that British working class lazy compared to Europeans - that they'll think they can get consensus that something has to be done and that something is of course downgrading pay and conditions.

 

[Badgers]

Italy lockdown extended to April 13th for now

 

[Mation]

scrub the front path.

fnar

 

[SpookyFrank]

Guardian is whinging about self-employed people who pay themselves a dividend from a limited company rather than a wage not getting government support.

If memory serves the only reason to use the dividend arrangement is to dodge taxes, so fuck those people.

 

[Teaboy]

Guardian is whinging about self-employed people who pay themselves a dividend from a limited company rather than a wage not getting government support.

If memory serves the only reason to use the dividend arrangement is to dodge taxes, so fuck those people.

Yup, you're quite right. They pay themselves a pitifully low salary through PAYE thereby attracting very little tax and then pay larger dividends which attract a much lower tax burden than if it was added to the salary. It is a tax dodge but a deliberate one allowed to encourage entrepreneurialism.

To an extent this was justifiable if that entrepreneurialism meant that companies would be growing and creating jobs. Unfortunately it mostly meant people setting up on their own (with no intention of employing anyone else) and doing exactly the same job they used to do but invoicing a daily rate to their old employer. Ironically often to the likes of employers such as HMRC. This had the added benefit that they could put all sorts of expenses such as commuting and sustenance through their companies and again alleviate the whole pesky paying tax thing.

In fairness the government did try and close this loophole with redefining IR35 which has caused a lot of chaos and was supposed to come in exactly now. However with the whole country falling apart and about to enter two decades of crippling recession thing the government have deferred the changes for 12 months.

I know all this because this is exactly how my g/f earns her crust. She's on a London wide whatsapp group for freelancers in her niche work sector and despite enjoying decades of this perk they are all howling at how unjust it is that the government aren't bailing them out. Perhaps as a company not an individual (a distinction many of them seem not to have grasped) they should have been leaving some money aside in their business for a rainy day instead of drawing down all those lovely low tax dividends.

ETA: Of course I imagine its largely coincidence that a lot of journo's operate this way and the Guardian was just standing up for the little guy.

 

[wayward bob]

is also a way of reducing "income" for child support purposes.

mr b was a contractor/self-employed for a while and was planning to go back to it for the cash. possibly best non-decision he ever made to put that off for a bit (now wfh)

 

[William of Walworth]

My brother's been a self-employed piano-tuner since 1984.
He'd know how to be an advanced brain-surgeon better than he'd know how to set up a limited company.

He just pays himself from the fees (old-style cheques, not cash!).
But fuck knows how he's getting on right now -- even in Cambridge, he won't be going into any houses and schools/colleges to tune pianos atm -- there's normally no shortage of work in that particular city!

 

[Teaboy]

My brother's been a self-employed piano-tuner since 1984.
He'd know how to be an advanced brain-surgeon better than he'd know how to set up a limited company.

He just pays himself from the fees (olld-style cheques, not cash!).
But fuck knows how he's getting on right now -- even in Cambridge, he won't be going into any houses and schools/colleges to tune pianos atm -- there's normally no shortage of work in that particular city!

Yes, a there is a distinction between a lot of self-employed who are likely sole-traders and do self-assessment tax and all that and often scrape by hand to mouth. Then there is the likes of what I describe above who have accountants and are Ltd companies and VAT registered etc. Big difference between the two.

 

[Sprocket.]

Went to the hospital to get my bloods checked. Hoped we would get stopped by the police.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

 

[gentlegreen]

I only have a stuffy nose left from the major lurgy of a month ago, but the temperature I entered into the cv19 app today was 32.5 degrees !

Am I reptilian ?

 

[two sheds]

Have you checked your pulse?

 

[platinumsage]

I only have a stuffy nose left from the major lurgy of a month ago, but the temperature I entered into the cv19 app today was 32.5 degrees !

Am I reptilian ?

Is that a toe thermometer?

Stick it up your bum!

 

[two sheds]

Will gg get his toe up his bum?

 

[Marty1]

View attachment 204519

Rope?

 

[Ax^]

judging my some traffic i'm hearing from airlines..

this situation is expected atm to be still the plan till about the end of may at the earliest

 

[gentlegreen]

Is that a toe thermometer?

Stick it up your bum!

Unlike apparently most people, I don't find the sensation remotely pleasurable.
Giving myself an enema prior to my sigmoidoscopy was a nightmare...

 

[Marty1]

Went to the hospital to get my bloods checked. Hoped we would get stopped by the police.
View attachment 204498

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Yup, you're quite right. They pay themselves a pitifully low salary through PAYE thereby attracting very little tax and then pay larger dividends which attract a much lower tax burden than if it was added to the salary. It is a tax dodge but a deliberate one allowed to encourage entrepreneurialism.

To an extent this was justifiable if that entrepreneurialism meant that companies would be growing and creating jobs. Unfortunately it mostly meant people setting up on their own (with no intention of employing anyone else) and doing exactly the same job they used to do but invoicing a daily rate to their old employer. Ironically often to the likes of employers such as HMRC. This had the added benefit that they could put all sorts of expenses such as commuting and sustenance through their companies and again alleviate the whole pesky paying tax thing.

In fairness the government did try and close this loophole with redefining IR35 which has caused a lot of chaos and was supposed to come in exactly now. However with the whole country falling apart and about to enter two decades of crippling recession thing the government have deferred the changes for 12 months.

I know all this because this is exactly how my g/f earns her crust. She's on a London wide whatsapp group for freelancers in her niche work sector and despite enjoying decades of this perk they are all howling at how unjust it is that the government aren't bailing them out. Perhaps as a company not an individual (a distinction many of them seem not to have grasped) they should have been leaving some money aside in their business for a rainy day instead of drawing down all those lovely low tax dividends.

ETA: Of course I imagine its largely coincidence that a lot of journo's operate this way and the Guardian was just standing up for the little guy.

Back in my freelancing days, I worked with people who did this, and they were very keen to tell me all about it, how great it was and how much less tax they were paying than me. I'm sorry but they should not be getting the 80 per cent right now - or at most they should be getting a waaay reduced amount. May sound harsh, but tough shit. I still remember the smugness with which I was gleefully informed of this arrangement, which as you say is purely a tax dodge. There are lots of 'self-employed' who have little choice because the sector they work in is so fucked up. Bicycle couriers in London, for instance. Don't think many of them are limited companies.

 

[Marty1]

Clap for Carers: UK applauds the NHS and other key workers

People clapped, banged pots and pans, and played the bagpipes to honour key workers battling the virus.

www.bbc.co.uk

Wondered what all the noise was for, the neighbours even had cow bells.

 

[ignatious]

Back in my freelancing days, I worked with people who did this, and they were very keen to tell me all about it, how great it was and how much less tax they were paying than me. I'm sorry but they should not be getting the 80 per cent right now - or at most they should be getting a waaay reduced amount. May sound harsh, but tough shit. I still remember the smugness with which I was gleefully informed of this arrangement, which as you say is purely a tax dodge. There are lots of 'self-employed' who have little choice because the sector they work in is so fucked up. Bicycle couriers in London, for instance. Don't think many of them are limited companies.

Don’t they calculate the dividend from the profit though, which is what the 80% is also calculated from. Why would a dividend payment effect the amount they receive?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Don’t they calculate the dividend from the profit though, which is what the 80% is also calculated from. Why would a dividend payment effect the amount they receive?

* I'm not an accountant * but as I understand it they pay themselves a small wage then take the dividend. I guess they'll get 80 percent of what they declare as their earnings. tbh they should count themselves fortunate if they get that. Presumably it will be at least 80 per cent of minimum wage. Still a lot better than the horrible pittances that are the universal credit and ssp.

or maybe as company owners they get nothing? Dunno.