Gaza under attack yet again.
- Thread starter Mr.Bishie
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Shechemite
Be the sun and all will see you
Personally I try to remove my ‘identity’ when trying to make sense of Israel/Palestine and working out what I can do wrt it. In any case ‘the Jewish state’ doesn’t need my support (even if it deserved it) - as I said upthread, I really don’t think it’s going to be ‘dismantled’ any time soon
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Not doing this here. Sorry.
hitmouse
music obfuscation technology
Yeah, I tend to lean towards thinking like "it's some country I've never been to, it's not any more or less relevant to my 'identity' than a whole list of other states that I also have no actual connection to"... but then that's easier said than done when people can't go ten minutes without making claims about how "the Jewish community" must feel about the subject (not having a go at JV here, just speaking generally).
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Sorry. It is a picture of a member of the IDF pointing a gun at a toddler. I expect it is an old photo but still reflects what is going on & who is seen as a threat.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
never apologise, never explain
Flavour
hang the bankers
Right. Shall I just post a picture of a rocket barrage for good measure? Maybe from 2014. Just to reflect what is going on and stuff.
Reverse image search picks it up on this Greek blog as far back as 2009.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
That is up to you. If you think it will help to explain what is going on then feel free.
Flavour
hang the bankers
It won't, so I don't. And neither should you, is my point.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
Next time I will post it with what I presume was Arabic script if that helps?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
i don't know where you've got the notion all posts must help to understand from. it seems rather un-urban to me, running counter to the sort of unfounded speculation and ill-informed comment which have always been such endearing (and indeed enduring) features of the site.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
يجب أن أوافقك بشدة وأختلف معك.
steveo87
22/11/2022 - got a maths joke.
Hefty bit of 'whataboutery' going on there.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Thank God you spotted it. I'd have looked foolish otherwise.
MrSki
Who am I to say you're wrong
I tell you what is not helpful & bad form is editing your post after it has been quoted without even adding an ETA or anything. I only spotted your edit because someone else quoted it.
So the image goes back to 2009? Just goes to show how long the IDF have been persecuting children. Take it as a free history lesson.
Flavour
hang the bankers
I tell you what is not helpful & bad form is editing your post after it has been quoted without even adding an ETA or anything. I only spotted your edit because someone else quoted it.
So the image goes back to 2009? Just goes to show how long the IDF have been persecuting children. Take it as a free history lesson.
I don't need any history lessons in Israeli human rights abuses, war crimes and various other atrocities, thanks. I know very well what the IDF do and have done. But the point is that there is conflict going on RIGHT NOW and this thread should ideally be reserved for actual updates regarding current events and not a place to post images from over 10 years ago. It's not helpful.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Not trying to minimise the incident, but have Boris 'n' Sir Keir been anything like as vocal about what's happening to the Palestinians?
www.theguardian.com
Four arrests over video ‘showing antisemitic abuse shouted from cars in London’
Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer condemn ‘utterly disgusting’ footage of convoy in St John’s Wood
Not trying to minimise the incident, but have Boris 'n' Sir Keir been anything like as vocal about what's happening to the Palestinians?
Four arrests over video ‘showing antisemitic abuse shouted from cars in London’
Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer condemn ‘utterly disgusting’ footage of convoy in St John’s Wood
Of course they have not.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Some of the older stalwarts of my local PSC group I covered for Brixton Buzz are anti Zionist Socialist Jews.
They don't have a problem being in my local area PSC. Or attending demos.
One in their younger days told me they were in Matzpen.
Years back I will never forgot a couple of Jewish Socialists being told they were self hating Jews for attending demo about arms going to Israel. Shocked me at time to see it. It was not just a difference of opinion.
I've also read Ilan Pappe Ten Myths of Israel. He was born and grew up in Israel. Became a historian and found researching his countries history that what he was taught as he grew up didn't fit with what he found.
Tony Judt a very good British Jewish historian moved to supporting idea of one state rather than two state solution and got a lot of stick for it.
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
I have family in Israel, lots of family and I grew up in an immediate family who have always supported the idea of a state of Israel, who largely condemn the actions of the IDF but who often spoke of both sides being as bad as each other, so the inequality of the conflict was never really acknowledged. I remember being told when we went to my more religious relatives houses, to not mention Israel at all and be careful as their attitudes were much more extreme (‘we are the chosen people and the Arabs just need to accept that and get out of our land’) and arguing with a fundamentalist perspective just gets you nowhere. I know of one cousin who lives on an illegal settlement. I’ve been to Israel twice, which isn’t very often for a Jew really. Mainly because my mum worried about how safe it was. So I have ties to Israel, yes. I know people who see any criticism of Israel as anti-Semitic, and those who hold a more balanced view and can separate out the two issues and people in between. People are lazy though; I had to pull someone up yesterday for using ‘Jews’ when what they meant was ‘Israel’. This happens far, far more often than it should. This is quite tiring to have to deal with and it makes you feel quite anxious about what you’re going to get when you speak to people about this issue. It also makes you hyper aware of it. I have hidden my Star of David necklace when walking outside recently, because I don’t want to take the risk of that lazy linking coming back onto me. I am not at all religious and have no links to any community really, and yet these are my feelings. I can see why a collective, defensive and self-righteous attitude forms as a result. I don’t think it’s right; it should go without saying that the treatment of the Palestinians is evil and cruel and utterly immoral (and that’s before going into the legal side of it). But I can see why and where it comes from. I’m not sure if that answers your question. And it’s impossible to anyway because my experience is just that, mine. I can’t speak for all.
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
A decent start is The Gun and Olive Branch: Extract: The Gun and the Olive Branch by David Hirst
It’s a fair few years old but still worth the time.
RileyOBlimey
Well-Known Member
Fabricunt: “These primitives are trying to bring to London what they do in the Middle East.”
www.theguardian.com
The one good thing about this wanker is he doesn’t hide it.
Conservative MP condemned for ‘racist’ tweet about Israel protests
Michael Fabricant, the MP for Lichfield, called pro-Palestine demonstrators who clashed with police ‘primitives’
The one good thing about this wanker is he doesn’t hide it.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm half way through Tom Segev One Palestine Complete. A history of the interwar British Mandate.
Reads like a novel. Uses diaries and government documents to show both sides in Palestine. Brings to life the history of that period. From what I've read the roots of the present conflict can be seen to develop in that period. But it was not inevitable it ended up this way.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
No, it's an excellent response - exactly what I'm interested in. Thank you.
krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
Adam LeBor's City of Oranges - Arabs and Jews in Jaffa is fascinating and gives some background to the events before the Nakba. Above all, it focuses on several families (Jewish, Arab and Christian -all Palestinians) which gives the book a lot of heart.
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