Gaza under attack yet again.

[Mr.Bishie]

The latter was the BBC.

Which they had to have Israeli permission to go with the ad?

 

[butchersapron]

Which they had to have Israeli permission to go with the ad?

Their given reason was it would reduce public confidence in the impartiality of their reporting. Which, if logically followed through means they would pull all their news reporting.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Which they had to have Israeli permission to go with the ad?

One of the speakers mentioned this at the demo on Sat - IIRC correctly, the Israeli govt said they were "happy" for the most recent appeal to be screened, but not the one before that a few years ago.

 

[Pickman's model]

it's interesting how the likes of anudder oik and coley want prominent (ie rich) jews to say how appalling all this is while not being interested in the opinions of poor jews, who i suppose are in their eyes a lost cause.

 

[Pickman's model]

Their given reason was it would reduce public confidence in the impartiality of their reporting. Which, if logically followed through means they would pull all their news reporting.

it wouldn't reduce my confidence in their impartiality

you can't get lower than zero

 

[Anudder Oik]

Yup. And are all UK citizens responsible for our incursions into Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc?

Many hundreds of "prominent" people come out openly about this. Does no one understand what I'm asking?

 

[Anudder Oik]

it's interesting how the likes of anudder oik and coley want prominent (ie rich) jews to say how appalling all this is while not being interested in the opinions of poor jews, who i suppose are in their eyes a lost cause.

That's pretty twisted.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Many hundreds of "prominent" people come out openly about this. Does no one understand what I'm asking?

Well of course we do, but personally, you're getting the wrong end of the stick. Also: it would be way, way more useful if eg the UK Govt (ie. prominent people) as a whole actully pulled their finger out and started holding the state of Israel to account.

 

[laptop]

Would you ask this of prominent Muslims when Al-Qaeda set off a bomb?

That demand is made every time they do, yes.

 

[DotCommunist]

'Controlled' is a very dodgy word in this context. It smacks of global conspiracy, NWO type bollocks. Many media outlets are influenced by, and indeed biased towards zionist interests, but you make it sound like Netanyahu's got a gun pointed at the head of every news editor in the western world. Even papers with a clear bias still print plenty of stuff the Israeli state would rather they didn't.

Mordechai Vanunu went straight to the Times because he believed they would print the facts he gave them, and they did. If Zionists were controlling the press, we still might not know that Israel had nuclear weapons.

fine job they did of protecting that source eh

 

[SpookyFrank]

fine job they did of protecting that source eh

Wasn't he in Italy when the Mossad got to him?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Wasn't he in Italy when the Mossad got to him?

Yes indeed - from his Wikipedia entry here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordechai_Vanunu#Disclosure.2C_abduction_and_publication):

Through constant surveillance and analysis by Mossad psychologists, the Mossad found that Vanunu had become lonely and eager for female companionship. Masquerading as an American tourist called "Cindy", Israeli Mossad agent Cheryl Bentov befriended Vanunu, and on 30 September persuaded him to fly to Rome with her on a holiday.[34] This relation has been perceived as a classic honey trap operation whereby an intelligence agent employs seduction to gain the target's trust—a practice which has been officially sanctioned in Israel.[35][36][37] On the day Bentov met Vanunu, the Israeli Navy electronic surveillance ship INS Noga was ordered to the Italian coast.

 

[DotCommunist]

Many hundreds of "prominent" people come out openly about this. Does no one understand what I'm asking?

I do, and with respect I think its a bit insulting. The numbers of the diaspora far outweigh the numbers of the current israeli jewish population. You're doing the equivalent of asking scotsmen to apologise for the actions of Corby town.

Thats before we get into the eyerolling concept of prominent 'community leaders' guiding worldwide jewry in an attempt to cleanse the bad name etc etc. It's dodgy ground.

 

[DotCommunist]

Wasn't he in Italy when the Mossad got to him?

They shouldn't have had his name, but yes he was lured there on the promise of a shag. We've all been fools for a lay, but 18 years in jail is a hefty price.

 

[sptme]

That demand is made every time they do, yes.

Back when there was a vicious beheading of a Westerner in iraq one of my muslim friends told me of how she was stopped in the street by a guy who showed her the beheading on his phone and demanded to know if she supported this on not. According to Anudder oik's logic, he was probably just acting out of a concern for the rise in islamaphobia.

And if a Jew gets stopped in the street and shown picture of dead Gazan children by people demanding to know if jews support this they will probably just be acting out of a concern about a rise in antisemitism, aint that right Anudder?

 

[BigTom]

Many hundreds of "prominent" people come out openly about this. Does no one understand what I'm asking?

Of course, but there's no reason why someone who is Jewish should or shouldn't speak out over someone who isn't Jewish, and saying that they should plays into the hands of Israel because it helps them to deflect criticism as anti-semitic and at the same time adds to the anti-semitism that does occur around pro-palestine demos, cos Jews and Israel, same thing innit. And when someone Jewish does speak out Israel denounces them as self-hating jews, further playing on the idea that Judaism and Israel are the same thing. Which feeds from/into conspiracy theory bollocks and anti-semitism about global jewish networks.

Do you think Judaism and Israel/Zionism are the same thing? If not, why do you think Jewish people have some kind of special responsibility to speak out about Israel?

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Of course, but there's no reason why someone who is Jewish should or shouldn't speak out over someone who isn't Jewish, and saying that they should plays into the hands of Israel because it helps them to deflect criticism as anti-semitic and at the same time adds to the anti-semitism that does occur around pro-palestine demos, cos Jews and Israel, same thing innit. And when someone Jewish does speak out Israel denounces them as self-hating jews, further playing on the idea that Judaism and Israel are the same thing. Which feeds from/into conspiracy theory bollocks and anti-semitism about global jewish networks.

Do you think Judaism and Israel/Zionism are the same thing? If not, why do you think Jewish people have some kind of special responsibility to speak out about Israel?

I've highlighted what BigTom says here, as for the section of the demo I was in in London, I did not hear one single piece of anti-Semitic chanting/rhetoric (or see anti-Semitic placards etc) at all. tbh I was wondering if I would encounter this at all, so was somewhat relieved when - very quickly - it became apparent that the protests were about the actions of the Israeli state, and of Zionism being a secular political ideaology, which was NOT used as a screen for people to air their anti-Semitic views.

 

[BigTom]

That's great

 

[Doctor Carrot]

can't believe the guardian ran the 'anti hamas' filth and yet refused the gaza appeal ad. Shameless liberal pricks. Finger wagging twats.

Did they refuse it!? Did I miss a link somewhere up thread? Surely they ran it didn't they?

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Victory is inevitable.

 

[uk benzo]

Victory is inevitable.

For who ibn khaldoun?

 

[quiquaquo]

For who ibn khaldoun?

I asked the same question and still don't understand the answer.

 

[redsquirrel]

On what?

My perception is that jewish people who oppose the slaughter are in the main keeping quiet, are a tiny minority, or their voice is drowned out, perhaps thru fear of being ostracized, although I have seen banners on demos and the odd article, and of course there is the woman who burned her passport, which cannot be an easy thing to do. There is also a recent survey which found that around 50% of young New York Jewish people were disgusted with Israel's actions. The dominant voice however, is of those who are without doubt, the apologists for Israel's state terrorism. Is this just the zionist-orientated press pushing their propaganda on us or are the majority of jewish people around the world supporting the killing? Put this way it sounds like a hard nosed question but what is the objective answer. I think there is a real danger of disgust at the Israeli State's actions turning into anti-semitism on a broader level. Where is zionism being seperated from jewishness?

In Hollywood various execs have reacted viciously against two spanish film stars (Bardem and Cruz) for signing a manifesto and are threatening to end their careers. The rest of Hollywood has kept quiet about it, abandoning them. Why? they are right in condemning the murder of children.

Where are the famous or prominent jewish people (with influence) who are standing up and opposing the actions of the current rulers of Israel?

Fuck you, conflating Jewish and Israeli fucking stinks and if you can't see that you're filth.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

For who ibn khaldoun?

For the Arab masses.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Did they refuse it!? Did I miss a link somewhere up thread? Surely they ran it didn't they?

butchersapron let DC know that it was the BBC who refused to broadcast an appeal.

 

[SpookyFrank]

For the Arab masses.

Quite a lot of Arabs are finding themselves on opposing sides at present. They can't all win. This isn't a primary school sports day.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

Quite a lot of Arabs are finding themselves on opposing sides at present. They can't all win. This isn't a primary school sports day.

I wonder if yer man is harking back to the days of Saddam Hussein and Assad senior, on the basis of their "anti-imperialism" (ahem...)?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

butchersapron let DC know that it was the BBC who refused to broadcast an appeal.

In 2008 they did, I know about that. I'm talking about the guardian's apparent refusal to publish it this time around. Unless I've got that wrong.

 

[MellySingsDoom]

In 2008 they did, I know about that. I'm talking about the guardian's apparent refusal to publish it this time around. Unless I've got that wrong.

Yeah, DC accidentally thought it was the Graun, and he realised it himself when butchers mentioned it was actually the BBC who did this.

 

[Ibn Khaldoun]

Quite a lot of Arabs are finding themselves on opposing sides at present. They can't all win. This isn't a primary school sports day.

No Arabs are on the opposing side of Palestinian freedom.