Gaza under attack yet again.

[Spymaster]

I don't know why you're failing to grasp the fact that Hamas agreed to the ceasefire and didn't shoot fireworks for 19 months.

If I'm wrong here, forgive me and point me in what you see as the right direction, but didn't the rocket strikes resume after Israel killed some hamas boys who were planning a strike? There was never a proper cessation from either side.

 

[agricola]

If I'm wrong here, forgive me and point me in what you see as the right direction, but didn't the rocket strikes resume after Israel killed some hamas boys who were planning a strike?

Nope. The rocket fire started after Hamas were (it now seems wrongfully) accused of being behind the murder of those three kids, after the IDF rounded up all the Hamas leadership in the West Bank, and then bombed a group of Hamas in Gaza who they (the IDF) said were planning an attack.

 

[Doctor Carrot]

If I'm wrong here, forgive me and point me in what you see as the right direction, but didn't the rocket strikes resume after Israel killed some hamas boys who were planning a strike?

I forgot to mention that yes you're quite right that Israel can legitimise not talking to people who shoot fireworks. That's precisely why they provoked them into shooting fireworks because Israel doesn't want to settle until it's annexed all the land it wants. Once it's done that it will settle and then say look how wonderful and peaceful we are.

No, the fireworks resumed in response to Israel launching an air strike in the Gaza strip.

Hamas operatives were behind a large volley of rockets which slammed into Israel Monday morning, the first time in years the Islamist group has directly challenged the Jewish state, according to Israeli defense officials.

At least 16 rockets were fired at Israel Monday morning, most of them hitting open areas in the Eshkol region, the army said.

The security sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity, assessed that Hamas had probably launched the barrage in revenge for an Israeli airstrike several hours earlier which killed one person and injured three more.

A member of Hamas’s militant wing was killed in the attack, Gaza health official Ashraf al-Kidra said.

While Israel has maintained it holds Hamas responsible for all rocket attacks, officials have said that smaller groups, such as Islamic Jihad, are usually behind the rocket attacks, while Hamas squads generally attempt to thwart the rocket fire.

Hamas hasn’t fired rockets into Israel since Operation Pillar of Defense ended in November 2012, and has yet to take responsibility for this latest barrage.

Source

 

[quiquaquo]

Jordan is (I belive) 40% Palestian? So I dont think (of all the things they are in danger from) "losing" their "identity is one of them

Can't say I'm surprised to see you roll out the classic Zionist/Hasbara lie: "the Palestinians already have a country it's called Jordan".

 

[Dandred]

Fox news are fucking disgusting in their coverage of this.

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2014/08/0...not-stopped-threat-will-come-theater-near-you

Don't watch unless you want your blood to boil.

 

[iROBOT]

Can't say I'm surprised to see you roll out the classic Zionist/Hasbara lie: "the Palestinians already have a country it's called Jordan".

I didnt say that.

Read my post again.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I think the point is that Hamas think so!

No they don't.
They know that firing Qassams won't lift the siege, but they also know that not firing them - not showing resistance to the siege - will be played externally as HAMAS having backed down.

They don't just do it for fun, you know. They know the dangers, as do the people of Gaza.

 

[RhymnRzn]

Not genocide?



http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n15/mouin-rabbani/israel-mows-the-lawn

well, at least they do not have any cards hidden up their sleeves, huh?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do you think they'd have voted for Hamas if they could have foreseen what's happening now?

Nice to know you think that Gazans are as politically naive as you.

What has militant hamas done for Gaza since 2006?

Besides only minimally profiteering from smuggling, unlike FATAH; besides attempting to get rid of the baksheesh culture that FATAH had encouraged; besides continuing to provide the social services they've been providing since the 1980s?

Nothing, obviously.

 

[ViolentPanda]

"Militant" Hamas. I was clear about that.

All of HAMAS is militant.
Do you happen to mean "HAMAS's military wing", by any chance?

 

[ViolentPanda]

I know why hamas is fighting. To them, Isreal is a illigitmate country and their avowed aim is it's total iradication.

No, to HAMAS Zionism is an illegitimate political entity, and their avowed aim is to eradicate Zionism - the philosophy behind the the oppression they've suffered for more than 65 years.

Just thought I'd mention that before you trotted out any of the old bullshit about them wanting to push all Jews into the sea.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Are you taking the piss?

I doubt it. People really are that ignorant, and that swamped in Zionist propaganda.

 

[iROBOT]

No, to HAMAS Zionism is an illegitimate political entity, and their avowed aim is to eradicate Zionism - the philosophy behind the the oppression they've suffered for more than 65 years.

Just thought I'd mention that before you trotted out any of the old bullshit about them wanting to push all Jews into the sea.

Not accourding to the second paragraph I quoted of their charter, it mentions "Israel" and not Zionism.

Go back and read my reply.

 

[Grandma Death]

Maybe they're just really annoyed? I would be if I'd spent my life in a vast prison despite committing no crime.

They have every right to be pissed off. Goes without say. They've just had their infrastructure bombed back into the dark ages and the people they claim to represent murdered by a brutal incursion. What on earth do they think they can achieve by doing more of the same? They cannot defeat Israel. Israel aren't going anywhere. It's the most ludicrous one sided 'war' they could even be part of it. I just don't get it.

 

[Spymaster]

Do you happen to mean "HAMAS's military wing", by any chance?

Yes. I even named them.

 

[Grandma Death]

When Hamas rockets fly into Israel, air raid warnings sound and civilians have to run to bomb shelters. If the rocket is headed for a populated area Iron Dome deals with it but nevertheless, the lives of the population are disrupted, they don't like it and they put pressure on the regime.

Pressure from where? They don't give a shit about world opinion or law. The Israeli public support these actions massively. I see no pressure whatsoever on Israel.

 

[quiquaquo]

iROBOT is a hindu nationalist and pretty close to being a hindu chauvinist with a particular animus against muslims btw

I've heard of the "untouchables" in the delightful caste system but iRobot appears to be an "unreadable".

As I understand it the vast majority of Muslims and Christians in India originally converted from Hinduism because of the caste system

 

[ViolentPanda]

The news reports I've been reading suggest hamas fired rockets first. This is what I don't get. Militarily they have nothing to achieve by doing this. They cannot beat Israel into submission. As long as they keep firing they are handing an excuse to a far bigger and well armed state to fire back. So there has to be a political reason behind this? A calculated reason? Whatever the reason is in all of this innocent people are dying and for this reason I think the actions of Hamas and Israel make them massive cunts.

How do you hand an excuse to an entity that has no requirement for excuses, and who'll willingly fabricate justifications anyway?

This isn't about mortar bombs over the "peace wall", it's about the state of Israel concentrating Gaza's population into a smaller and smaller geographic footprint, and expropriating the "empty" land left behind. Give it two years, and that "buffer zone" Israel are creating between the wall and the Gazans will be incorporated into Israel. Give Gaza another decade of this shit and Gazans will have nothing left, and yet people quibble about "rockets" that I could make in my shed, and which only have the payload to destroy your coal bunker. For fuck's sake!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Of European decent, the convert Jews of Russia, will have to look it up.

The majority of Jews from Europe (later immigrants to Israel psot 1948) were not Semites but converts from about 400ad...(Like I said will have to look it up as I could have some facts wrong) but my genral trust is correct I belive.

Oh wonder, the bloody Khazar myth again!
Fact is, SOME northern European Jews are descended from converts, some aren't. Most southern European Jews aren't descended from converts, but from the original diaspora.
But hey, if you want to believe that all Ashkenazim are actually Khazars, be my guest. At least it'll provide me with amusement!

 

[Grandma Death]

How do you hand an excuse to an entity that has no requirement for excuses, and who'll willingly fabricate justifications anyway?

This isn't about mortar bombs over the "peace wall", it's about the state of Israel concentrating Gaza's population into a smaller and smaller geographic footprint, and expropriating the "empty" land left behind. Give it two years, and that "buffer zone" Israel are creating between the wall and the Gazans will be incorporated into Israel. Give Gaza another decade of this shit and Gazans will have nothing left, and yet people quibble about "rockets" that I could make in my shed, and which only have the payload to destroy your coal bunker. For fuck's sake!

You misunderstood my point vp. I'm fully aware of how shite these missiles are. It's not just about the missiles. I just wonder what on earth hamas hope to achieve? The missiles are shite. As long as they fire them then this allows a rogue state with an itchy trigger finger the chance to bleat self defense. Then thousands of gazans die. The only clear winners in this are the people manufacturing the fucking arms on both sides. Because as far as I can see neither hamas or Israel are achieving anything.

 

[Grandma Death]

How do you hand an excuse to an entity that has no requirement for excuses, and who'll willingly fabricate justifications anyway?

This isn't about mortar bombs over the "peace wall", it's about the state of Israel concentrating Gaza's population into a smaller and smaller geographic footprint, and expropriating the "empty" land left behind. Give it two years, and that "buffer zone" Israel are creating between the wall and the Gazans will be incorporated into Israel. Give Gaza another decade of this shit and Gazans will have nothing left, and yet people quibble about "rockets" that I could make in my shed, and which only have the payload to destroy your coal bunker. For fuck's sake!

You misunderstood my point vp. I'm fully aware of how shite these missiles are. It's not just about the missiles. I just wonder what on earth hamas hope to achieve? The missiles are shite. As long as they fire them then this allows a rogue state with an itchy trigger finger the chance to bleat self defense. Then thousands of gazans die. The only clear winners in this are the people manufacturing the fucking arms on both sides. Because as far as I can see neither hamas or Israel are achieving anything.

 

[Grandma Death]

How do you hand an excuse to an entity that has no requirement for excuses, and who'll willingly fabricate justifications anyway?

This isn't about mortar bombs over the "peace wall", it's about the state of Israel concentrating Gaza's population into a smaller and smaller geographic footprint, and expropriating the "empty" land left behind. Give it two years, and that "buffer zone" Israel are creating between the wall and the Gazans will be incorporated into Israel. Give Gaza another decade of this shit and Gazans will have nothing left, and yet people quibble about "rockets" that I could make in my shed, and which only have the payload to destroy your coal bunker. For fuck's sake!

You misunderstood my point vp. I'm fully aware of how shite these missiles are. It's not just about the missiles. I just wonder what on earth hamas hope to achieve? The missiles are shite. As long as they fire them then this allows a rogue state with an itchy trigger finger the chance to bleat self defense. Then thousands of gazans die. The only clear winners in this are the people manufacturing the fucking arms on both sides. Because as far as I can see neither hamas or Israel are achieving anything.

 

[Grandma Death]

How do you hand an excuse to an entity that has no requirement for excuses, and who'll willingly fabricate justifications anyway?

This isn't about mortar bombs over the "peace wall", it's about the state of Israel concentrating Gaza's population into a smaller and smaller geographic footprint, and expropriating the "empty" land left behind. Give it two years, and that "buffer zone" Israel are creating between the wall and the Gazans will be incorporated into Israel. Give Gaza another decade of this shit and Gazans will have nothing left, and yet people quibble about "rockets" that I could make in my shed, and which only have the payload to destroy your coal bunker. For fuck's sake!

You misunderstood my point vp. I'm fully aware of how shite these missiles are. It's not just about the missiles. I just wonder what on earth hamas hope to achieve? The missiles are shite. As long as they fire them then this allows a rogue state with an itchy trigger finger the chance to bleat self defense. Then thousands of gazans die. The only clear winners in this are the people manufacturing the fucking arms on both sides. Because as far as I can see neither hamas or Israel are achieving anything.

 

[Grandma Death]

How do you hand an excuse to an entity that has no requirement for excuses, and who'll willingly fabricate justifications anyway?

This isn't about mortar bombs over the "peace wall", it's about the state of Israel concentrating Gaza's population into a smaller and smaller geographic footprint, and expropriating the "empty" land left behind. Give it two years, and that "buffer zone" Israel are creating between the wall and the Gazans will be incorporated into Israel. Give Gaza another decade of this shit and Gazans will have nothing left, and yet people quibble about "rockets" that I could make in my shed, and which only have the payload to destroy your coal bunker. For fuck's sake!

You misunderstood my point vp. I'm fully aware of how shite these missiles are. It's not just about the missiles. I just wonder what on earth hamas hope to achieve? The missiles are shite. As long as they fire them then this allows a rogue state with an itchy trigger finger the chance to bleat self defense. Then thousands of gazans die. The only clear winners in this are the people manufacturing the fucking arms on both sides. Because as far as I can see neither hamas or Israel are achieving anything.

 

[iROBOT]

Oh wonder, the bloody Khazar myth again!
Fact is, SOME northern European Jews are descended from converts, some aren't. Most southern European Jews aren't descended from converts, but from the original diaspora.
But hey, if you want to believe that all Ashkenazim are actually Khazars, be my guest. At least it'll provide me with amusement!

I'll look it up and feed back. Not an area that I'm too familiar with, but will come back with what I find. It was a little of the cuff (this I admit and said as much in my post you were frothing at the mouth to quote).

However that was a side issue to my point about Europeans invading lands and subjugating the local populations, in this case the Palestinians.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't be a tit. I'm suggesting fucking off hamas completely and replacing them with Fatah. Have another vote. See how they get on now.

You utter fucking schmuck.
Prior to HAMAS's political victory, Gazans' main thoughts about FATAH were "corrupt bastards, lining their pockets from our and Israeli money while we suffer" (something they're still doing in the West Bank). Why do you think that over 60% of the electorate voted for HAMAS in '06, just for a laugh/for a change of pace? They voted HAMAS because HAMAS promised to end corruption and to fight the land appropriations and the killings with every means at their disposal.

 

[laptop]

But that was a side issue to my point about Europeans invading lands and subjugating the local populations, in this case the Palestinians.

It wasn't a side-issue, in that you'd (unthinkingly, you say) invoked a trope beloved of fascists.

And many of the most militant supporters of revisionist Zionism are Mizrahi - citizens of Israel whose parents and grandparents spoke Arabic and lived between Morocco and Iraq. Until the arrival of the Russians, they were reputed to be the mainstay of right-wing Israeli parties.

 

[iROBOT]

It wasn't a side-issue, in that you'd (unthinkingly, you say) invoked a trope beloved of fascists.

And many of the most militant supporters of revisionist Zionism are Mizrahi - citizens of Israel whose parents and grandparents spoke Arabic and lived between Morocco and Iraq. Until the arrival of the Russians, they were reputed to be the mainstay of right-wing Israeli parties.

Were not the Zionists from its founding days European?

 

[Spymaster]

You utter fucking schmuck.

Is that really necessary?

 

[ViolentPanda]

You misunderstood my point vp. I'm fully aware of how shite these missiles are. It's not just about the missiles. I just wonder what on earth hamas hope to achieve? The missiles are shite. As long as they fire them then this allows a rogue state with an itchy trigger finger the chance to bleat self defense. Then thousands of gazans die. The only clear winners in this are the people manufacturing the fucking arms on both sides. Because as far as I can see neither hamas or Israel are achieving anything.

Thousands of Gazans would die anyway, through waterborne disease and gradual malnutrition; through lack of proper medical facilities and treatment. Gazans voting for HAMAS were well aware that they were voting for a conflict situation, yet they still voted for them. Ask yourself why.
And sure, the state of Israel is certainly achieving something - it's just instituted a buffer zone between the "peace wall" and Gazan dwellings - it's grabbed more land to eventually build settlements on.