Gaza under attack yet again.

[Anudder Oik]

It's good to see high profile actors and showbiz people standing up and risking their careers. This week, Russell Brand, Penelope Cruz and Javier Bardem and last week Rihanna. They have been automatically slandered as anti-semitic. Strange really, as more than half of young jews in New York oppose the Israeli state's stance, so are therefore anti-semitic, too.

Russell Brand has laid heavily into a bigotted Fox anchor man (Hannity). I respect him for that. The tit for tat videos are going viral apparently.

 

[laptop]

Seems Gaza is being forgotten and anti semitism is now the " hot topic?"
Just a thought.

I think a subtext of the discussion here is: "Why isn't there universal condemnation of the murderous actions of the State of Israel?" (Or, given finite typing speed: what are some reasons why...)

And over the past two days it's seemed to me that the State of Israel is getting away with it partly because media, governments an the UN have run out of things to say. "You're murdering bastards. Stop it. Again we say: stop it". (Except for the governments that support its murdering...). Response: "can't hear you".

 

[coley]

Your response was to a post of mine that was specifically about how people who identify as Jewish respond to fear.

(The implication, for those who do follow these things, was that the political project of Zionism exploits this. It promotes the idea that criticism of the State of Israel is criticism of Jews - yes you personally over there - thus making such criticism unthinkable.)

I observe that Jews can be "ordinary people" - though my post was partly about how some Jews find the idea horrifying

I like to think that most of us are 'ordinary people' but one day, coming to place near you, the ordinary people will have to shift our collective arses.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Ok, i' think iv'e got as much of this done as i can without needing help from people to check genders for the deceased. Im sure i've made some mistakes, but fairly sure not enough to wildly skew the figures. I've asked on Twitter for help checking, but not had any takers. Ill email the guy from this website who is compiling them to see if he has any comments. Hopefully these are pretty self explanatory. As I said yesterday evening, im not an expert in stats or in how war kills and affects different age groups/genders of people.

Index Mundi has the Gaza Strip demographics here. Or you can see the first chart below. They relate to 2013, so are very recent. YOu can also compare them to Israeli demographics here, which is quite interesting. At the bottom of the list are stats from the Gaza War of 2008 as some sort of comparison. I've added % figures to help show number of women/minors children killed. IDF figures aside, the number of children killed appears roughly the same as the other orgs. compiling information. All numbers are deaths - not injured.

The number of women killed in this conflict (over the age of 17) is 120 out of 1458 deaths, which is just over 8% - again very similar to the Gaza War. There's no chart for this ive only just worked it out.









Gaza War 2008

 

[Anudder Oik]

By using the word Israeli you are lumping together the more progressive types who go on peace marches etc in Israel with the murderers. The word Zionist distinguishes.

85% support the slaughter, the remaining 15% should leave, they'd be better off in New York.

 

[treelover]

I said world wide revulsion against Israel, if it allows bigots and other assorted nut jobs free reign worldwide then that is just an unfortunate consequence, but being refused service in shops? Terribly inconvenient it might be but it sorta pales into insignificance when compared to what is happening in Gaza, don't you think?

Er, these aren't Israeli's , they are Belgians, French, etc, if its true its a slippery slope, and who is this doing these 'refusals'

 

[laptop]

Ok, i' think iv'e got as much of this done as i can without needing help from people to check genders for the deceased. Im sure i've made some mistakes, but fairly sure not enough to wildly skew the figures. I've asked on Twitter for help checking, but not had any takers. Ill email the guy from this website who is compiling them to see if he has any comments. Hopefully these are pretty self explanatory. As I said yesterday evening, im not an expert in stats or in how war kills and affects different age groups/genders of people.

Bloody hell!

Thanks.

* Goes to sleep to be able to be numerate in the morning *

 

[Anudder Oik]

I think a subtext of the discussion here is: "Why isn't there universal condemnation of the murderous actions of the State of Israel?" (Or, given finite typing speed: what are some reasons why...)

And over the past two days it's seemed to me that the State of Israel is getting away with it partly because media, governments an the UN have run out of things to say. "You're murdering bastards. Stop it. Again we say: stop it". (Except for the governments that support its murdering...). Response: "can't hear you".

According to an article in the Vanguardia (spanish newspaper), politicians in the United States won't put their necks out for fear of having their finances cut.

 

[treelover]

Zionism thrives on a sense of victimhood, its reinforces the paranoia

bordering on anti-semitism, why is a cultural centre in Germany to be labelled as Zionist, are all jews Zionist, ffs

 

[treelover]

Or when people use the word Zionist to refers to shit they don't like (where Jews are involved allegedly) when you get Zionist instead of Jew reinforcing traditional antisemitic views of jews running the world so it just means kike as opposed to a political view about the state of Israel, it's why I usually avoid using the term

Froggie, I admire the way you provide measured responses to these provocations.

 

[treelover]

But what I don't get is why European jewry don't make real efforts to clean up their own backyards so to speak. If the representatives put out some sort of communique to say that the deaths of innocents in Ghazza is abhorrent, they'd get hugs and kisses from the majority of Muslims in this country. Instead the majority of the jewry follow hasbara talking points, conflating zionism with antisemitism etc. In short and long term, that's just going to increase antisemitic attacks, particularly from the youth who don't know how to channel their frustrations in productive ways.

isn't that what many have been demanding of muslim communities in relation to terror attacks, etc, to much criticism from the left, etc.

 

[laptop]

bordering on anti-semitism

Eh?

Zionism as a political movement (that seeks to promote the lie that the interests of Jews and of the State of Israel are identical) does thrive on a sense of victimhood.

And on occasion when there's been insufficient victimhood it's created some.

You know that in the 1950s Zionist terrorist organsations organised attacks on Jews in Egypt and the Yemen to encourage the survivors to emigrate to Israel?

why is a cultural centre in Germany to be labelled as Zionist, are all jews Zionist, ffs

I don't think you've read relevant posts properly.

 

[treelover]

'The jew is the author of their own misfortune'

read that somewhere about an earlier time

 

[laptop]

Returning to that open letter in the Lancet and the responses:

Massive bonkersness by lobbyists for the State of Israel.

For new readers: the "blood libel" was a justification deployed from the Middle Ages to the 19th Century for attacking Jews and, er, stealing their property.

It was this: that Jews killed Christian children, and used their blood to make special unleavened bread for the religious festival of Passover.

Utterly barking - but, as I noted, there were shops and houses to be stolen... the phrase rightly became a byword for bonkers reasons given for attacks on Jews.

Now, though, in responses to the calm and measured description of the ill-deeds perpetrated by the State of Israel and their effects, we see stuff like:

The once premier British medical journal The Lancet has, once again, engaged in an outrageous Blood Libel against Israel--

No justification or explanation given.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...al-Letters-from-Israeli-Academics-Not-Welcome

Under the guise of presenting "the facts," [the letter's signatories] demonize Israel for "the perversity of a propaganda that justifies the creation of an emergency to masquerade a massacre." (In response, the Israeli Ministry of Health reportedly identified the letter as "bordering on blood libel."

http://www.thecuttingedgenews.com/index.php?article=84799

That link there is to Ynet News in Hebrew. Google says:

Ministry of Health: Letter doctors 'bordered blood libel'

Following the publication of an article in the prestigious medical journal Lancet which was called Israel "a cruel, shameful mankind and war criminal," the Ministry of Health is working to remove the letter signed by 24 physicians. "This is political advertising one - sided makes a terrible injustice," says Yael German Health Minister.

But still none the wiser what complaining about killing children has to do with mad peasants' and priests' allegations of cannibalism.

That medieval blood libel, largely abandoned in the contemporary West, does, however, still appear as part of Arab world’s vilification of Jews—now transmogrified into a slander against Israel, the Jew of nations. But in the regular chorus of defamation against Israel by a world infected with Palestinianism, a new, more odious trend has begun to show itself: the blood libel has been revivified; however, to position Israel (and by extension Jews) as demonic agents in the community of nations, the primitive fantasies of the blood libel are now masked with a veneer of academic scholarship and published as politicized scientific study.

The so-called "Scholars for Peace in the Middle East explain the association: http://spme.org/spme-research/academic-lies-distortions-cognitive-war-israel/18116/

So Israel is "the Jew of nations" and for this reason to criticise it is inherently anti-Semitic? New one on me. It does short-circuit the complexitites of the position that the interests of Jews and of the State of Israel are identical.

Fuck me. We really are into post-rationalist territory now.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Humanitarian ceasefire begins in Gaza

Israeli forces to withdraw completely from Palestinian enclave as 72-hour truce brokered by Egypt goes into effect.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...n-ceasefire-begins-gaza-2014855316321399.html

 

[frogwoman]

Lot of shit being talked on this thread the last two pages.

 

[frogwoman]

85% support the slaughter, the remaining 15% should leave, they'd be better off in New York.

Eh? Like it or not israel has been there for ocer 70 years, the majority of people were born there. Where would they go, you reckon the americans would take them? Stupid statement. If you want to know what maintains support for the govt this is why. Ffs

 

[frogwoman]

I think its slightly different than demanding every Jewish person condemn Israel personally. Rabbis etc are doing it, increasingly, on an individual level. But for something like the board of deputies to issue even a mild criticism of Israels actions would require such a huge cultural shift within the organization I'm not sure it will happen in the next 5 years

isn't that what many have been demanding of muslim communities in relation to terror attacks, etc, to much criticism from the left, etc.

 

[J Ed]

So now we have a political reason not to like the big bang theory http://elitedaily.com/entertainment...ows-support-israel-donating-money-idf/693315/

 

[existentialist]

perhaps you could tell us something about why you chose these links, and why anyone else should bother reading them.

As laptop puts it, it's "quote mining". Cargo cult debate - "if I quote enough links and throw my weight around enough, people will think I'm clever".

And it's irritatingly boring when it turns up on thread after thread.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

As laptop puts it, it's "quote mining". Cargo cult debate - "if I quote enough links and throw my weight around enough, people will think I'm clever".

And it's irritatingly boring when it turns up on thread after thread.

You lick pickmans arse dont you ?

 

[existentialist]

I resent that ypu keep fererring to me as "it". That's all you get from the last five pages?
Derailing by personalising is pathetic.

I'm not quite that cheap. If you are having to find that kind of depersonalisation where it doesn't actually exist, then you must be looking very hard indeed for things to be offended by - something I recall I noted during one of our first interactions.

For your information, it isn't always about you. Quote mining is a tendency, not a unique-to-bubbles activity [ETA: and, FTR, and those with difficulty in understanding, the "it" refers to the tendency, not the person]

But my description of cargo cult debate is based on all I get from your contributions on the last five pages: when there are posters quoting - and quoting from - interesting and useful sources, deriving significant data from them, and offering nuanced and unique perspectives, the cargo cultists tend to stick out like a sore thumb.

Which is one of the reasons I haven't posted much on here except personal perspectives - I simply don't have the depth of knowledge to be able to contribute any more than an opinion, when compared to many who post here. The difference between you and me is that I am aware of that lack of depth of knowledge and post accordingly; you, evidently, either aren't, or have so little respect for the views of others that you just post anyway.

 

[quiquaquo]

I resent that ypu keep fererring to me as "it". That's all you get from the last five pages?
Derailing by personalising is pathetic.

Pot, Kettle and so on...

Anyway on a personalisation note why were you banned a couple of weeks ago and more importantly why were you let back?

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

So now we have a political reason not to like the big bang theory http://elitedaily.com/entertainment...ows-support-israel-donating-money-idf/693315/

If you take that to the nth degree you may as well ditch the polio vaccine....antibiotics...stem cell research.....the laws of thermodynamics...and avoid wearing levi jeans.

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

Pot, Kettle and so on...

Anyway on a personalisation note why were you banned a couple of weeks ago and more importantly why were you let back?

Not interested ....

 

[Pickman's model]

I resent that ypu keep fererring to me as "it". That's all you get from the last five pages?
Derailing by personalising is pathetic.

you poor sod. you mean depersonalising.

 

[Treacle Toes]

If You Have An Android Phone – You Can Bomb Gaza Too

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/04/if-you-have-an-andriod-phone-you-can-bomb-gaza-too/

 

[hipipol]

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2014/08/04/if-you-have-an-andriod-phone-you-can-bomb-gaza-too/

Gone already
Google pulls 'Bomb Gaza' game from app store after backlash
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/08/04/us-mideast-gaza-google-idUKKBN0G421V20140804

 

[bubblesmcgrath]

you poor sod. you mean depersonalising.

No I don't.
I mean personalising ...

"If I quote enough links and throw my weight around enough, people will think I'm clever"..

This ^^^ is personal.
Now fuck off

 

[Pickman's model]

No I don't.
I mean personalising ...


This ^^^ is personal.
Now fuck off

you weren't complaining of that, you were whining about being an it. why don't you take your potty mouth elsewhere and let the adults talk?