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Gaza under attack yet again.

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I think the buffer zone of 4km will stay in Israeli hands. So less Gaza and even more intolerable conditions. If the world wasnt watching I think Israel would happily flatten gaza out of existence and build settlements on it. Right now Israel will pull on the leash as far as they are able to-and the people holding that leash are countries like the US.
 
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I'm entertaining the idea that the atmosphere within the Israeli military is such that the order itself doesn't even need to be given.

I get what you mean - but on the other hand I don't think they give enough of a fuck not to be openly orchestrating it all - even more so given that there is in effect zero opposition to the end results, in terms of actual action being taken against them - along with the massive support they have within Israel.
 
There will be no written record of any orders to bomb, shell or otherwise destroy schools, hospitals, etc There is no need for such incriminatory stuff, everyone knows that it doesn't matter how many the IDF kills, their ages, whatever........
After decades of dehumanizing propaganda most Israelis regard Palestinians, well lets be honest, any Arabs, as lesser beings, Untermensch, and that killing them is pretty much like killing any other kind of vermin
That seems unthinkable, but really, after all the "KIll them all", etc shit from supposedly reputable sources, plus the huge support in polls for this indiscriminate murder, up to and beyond 90% in those carried out by at least two Universities it seems reasonable to observe that the population of Israel has turned into a mob of bloodlust driven crazies.
Doubt the "boys" at the front need to be told to behave as brutally as possible
 
This HuffPo article was all over my Facebook feed this morning:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

(Apologies if it's already been posted, I only went back a couple of pages.)

Atheist dick, tries to shoe horn religion into the conflict, but manages to erase Palestinian Christians in Gaza.

It pertains the same outright anti-Arab (and anti-Muslim) racism of Sam Harris's article. Both drip with the clash of civilisations theory.

I've said before, but it shows a lack of empathy for Palestinian suffering, because he uses one example of Syrian photos mistakenly used by the BBC to make a wider point. One example doesn't equal a pattern.

He throws in accusations of anti-Semitism is inherent in their opposition of Israel's illegal occupation. It might be in Hamas's charter but to imply every person suffering deep down harbours the same feeling is again dehumanising the ordinary Palestinians (refer to the point above and Sam Harris).

Again, he takes the same line as Sam Harris, there is no evidence to suggest that if the shoe was on the other foot, Israel would face a genocide at the hands of the Palestinians. More presumption and dehumanisation.

He takes the Israeli line on human shields and conveniently overlooks when Israel used them in the past: (HRW: http://www.hrw.org/news/2010/11/26/israel-soldiers-punishment-using-boy-human-shield-inadequate) and (B'Tselem: http://www.btselem.org/human_shields/20060720_human_shields_in_beit_hanun)

He claims that Israel ended the occupation in 2005, not true: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mehdi-hasan/gaza-israel_b_5624401.html and http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.608008

He cites the neo-Con/Lukid website Commentary Magazine when linking to a story about Hamas' leadership building their own bunkers.

"However, if Israel holds itself to a higher standard like it claims -- it needs to do much more to show it isn't the same as the worst of its neighbors." - More dehumanisation.

He points out some out flaws of Israeli policy, but for it's all racism and dehumanisation of the Palestinians, this is simply hasbara dressed up as an objective assessment of a conflict he has no interest in looking at with balance.

There's a reason why the likes of Dawkins and Sam Harris fawned over the article.
 
There does seem to be little appetite for forming Brigadas Internacionales to help out the Gazans. 2k is taking the piss though. A flight to Cairo can't be more than five hundred quid and a bus to Arish is maybe a tenner. Then all he needs to do is grab a bucket of KFC and jump in a terror tunnel to Gaza.


your return ticket will be to jail, directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do expect normal rules to be suspended as you're a terrorist now.
 
So, this captured soldier. Israel followed up with airstrikes on the area killing numerous civilians. Hamas say they don't know where he is but presume he was killed by the bombardment, along with their soldiers.

That's deliberate isn't it? That hannibal protocol thing again. Meanwhile the guy's dad is saying he knows Israel will do everything to bring him back and Obama is demanding Hamas release him. They know he's dead. They killed him.
 
I have a horrible feeling something absolutely awful is going to happen. The reports in Rafah of people being shoved in a bathroom and executed ffs.


was the house full of executed people verified? Theres a lot of unverified news flying around but execution?
 
"The house is filled with casings from the bullets used in assault rifles. They are marked on the bottom as “IMI” (Israel Military Industries)."

AK47s* take a different cartridge from IDF assault rifles surely?

* or the current version, AK74 or whatever it is now?

The IDF (although still "standardising"), use a number of different calibres, including 7.62 x 51mm NATO, 7.62 x 39mm (standard AK47 round), 5.56 x 45mm NATO (standard for M16s, which reservists are issued, and are popular with some settlers) and 5.45 x 39mm (AK74).
 
I have a horrible feeling something absolutely awful is going to happen. The reports in Rafah of people being shoved in a bathroom and executed ffs.

It has.

******Warning : v. graphic and upsetting images of victims of Israeli warfare******
I chanced upon this last night whilst following a journo....wish I hadn't started to look.

Not enough :(:mad:'s
 
So lets all celebrate their deaths that are going to lead to what? More deaths? Killing anyone is not going to help towards a solution. Killing does not seem to be a way towards any kind of peace.

There is no peace, or chance of peace, only occasional pauses for breath by the state of Israel while they continue their slow-motion erasure of Palestine and Palestinians.
 
It has.

******Warning : v. graphic and upsetting images of victims of Israeli warfare******
I chanced upon this last night whilst following a journo....wish I hadn't started to look.

Not enough :(:mad:'s
i think it was hans joachim klein who kept a picture of an emaciated, dead holger meins in his wallet to keep his hatred strong. i wouldn't be surprised if pictures like those in yr link were being kept for the same purpose in parts of the middle east.
 
This HuffPo article was all over my Facebook feed this morning:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ali-a-rizvi/picking-a-side-in-israel-palestine_b_5602701.html

(Apologies if it's already been posted, I only went back a couple of pages.)

While Israel's government urges its civilians to get away from rockets targeted at them,Gaza's government urges its civilians to get in front of missiles not targeted at them.

If your government told you to go and stand in the path of an oncoming missile, would you do it? No, of course not, so why does this bloke think the Palestinians would be so stupid?

The reason fewer Israeli civilians die is not because there are fewer rockets raining down on them. It's because they are better protected by their government.

And also because there are far fewer rockets raining down on them. Not to mention all the tanks, helicopters, jets and artillery that the Palestinians haven't got.
 
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1. Why is everything so much worse when there are Jews involved?


It's not true of everything. I once went to a Jewish wedding in which no Jews involved and that was rubbish.

And The Graduate is a terrible movie if you take out all the bits with Dustin Hoffman in them.
 
by 'war' you mean the zionist entity taking on the plucky palestinians with their glorified fireworks. that's not war, it's slaughter.

... and yet their spokespeople - and at least one Tory MP - would have us all believe that this is just like us bombing the Germans. I am sure the 27% of Bomber Command airmen that didnt die, get wounded, or get shot down and captured or have to escape from Occupied Europe, and who were ignored for years afterwards, can see the clear similarities between that war and this.
 
i think it was hans joachim klein who kept a picture of an emaciated, dead holger meins in his wallet to keep his hatred strong. i wouldn't be surprised if pictures like those in yr link were being kept for the same purpose in parts of the middle east.

Quite possibly so.
Though, in Gaza itself, there must a significant (and rising) proportion of the populous that have had the misfortune to have experiences and visions, like those shown in the photographs, etched for evermore into their memories. We can only guess at the extent of conditions like PTSD and the like that afflict those Palestinians living through the repeated nightmare(s) of Israeli assaults.
 
... and yet their spokespeople - and at least one Tory MP - would have us all believe that this is just like us bombing the Germans. I am sure the 27% of Bomber Command airmen that didnt die, get wounded, or get shot down and captured or have to escape from Occupied Europe, and who were ignored for years afterwards, can see the clear similarities between that war and this.

ah, yes..... the good war
 
... and yet their spokespeople - and at least one Tory MP - would have us all believe that this is just like us bombing the Germans. I am sure the 27% of Bomber Command airmen that didnt die, get wounded, or get shot down and captured or have to escape from Occupied Europe, and who were ignored for years afterwards, can see the clear similarities between that war and this.

Writing on social media, Percy said the Conservative MPs are part of a cross-party delegation and stressed it was not a taxpayer-funded trip.

The group was to go to the Palestinian Authority but this has now been cancelled on the advice of the Foreign Office.

Shame they were stopped, really. I'm sure with views like that they'd have been "well received".
 
It is absolutely true that the SA boycott only grew on the back of the uprising, and a generalised black struggle against apartheid. But the thing is, they then helped to feed each other. The boycott (or the proposed boycott) helped to keep the struggle in peoples minds - if you are sat around going 'its shit but there's nothing we can do' then the story drops off the agenda, it means our government are less likely to even try to do anything. The boycott helped to force the government to make condemnatory noises, and some (very minor) acts. That's a help.

Of course it wont (and didnt) win all by itself, that will be down to more local working class forces (the wider arab w-c, especially, at the moment, in Egypt), but anything that adds pressure is of assistance.

As to the jewish and arab w-c uniting in Palestine itself, well, I still see precious little hope for it, or examples of it. Even in this weeks Socialist - which has a generally very good article on Gaza - it doesnt offer much hope, cant point to any particular examples of such unity in action. Sad, but true.

No, that's fair but at the same time it doesn't mean that the class tensions inherent in the Israeli state won't at some stage lead to a greater level of unity. I'd agree also that were there a mass struggle in Israel at the present time then BDS type stuff could have a greater effect - not least because a movement on the ground could assist in targeting these approaches.

This, for example, is something I find hopeful.

http://eng.wac-maan.org.il/?p=1028

Was this the article you meant? One of the better things we've put out on the Gaza crisis:

http://www.socialistworld.net/doc/6859
 
BuCsYSECUAAU1tN.jpg
 
I have been thinking about the parties stated objectives.

Hamas wants an end to the blockade, but I can't see Israel agreeing to this in the near term because they fear the increased militarisation of Hamas that this could bring.

Israel want to destroy tunnels, rockets and disarm Hamas. They could destroy quite a lot of tunnels, the ones they find at least. But they can't destroy Hamas' rockets without having the IDF invade Gaza and I don't see that as likely because of the increased casualties they would take. Equally their aim to disarm Hamas, unless they are prepared to fully occupy Gaza, it isn't going to happen.

So what chance peace negotiations?
 
Quite possibly so.
Though, in Gaza itself, there must a significant (and rising) proportion of the populous that have had the misfortune to have experiences and visions, like those shown in the photographs, etched for evermore into their memories. We can only guess at the extent of conditions like PTSD and the like that afflict those Palestinians living through the repeated nightmare(s) of Israeli assaults.
And when the Palestinians are blamed and castigated for supporting militant organisations like HAMAS, this is conveniently forgotten. Can we really expect a population whose last three generations' experience has been of dispossession and being on the receiving end of often arbitrary and always extreme violence to have any faith in or desire for a peaceful approach to resolving the issue?
 
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