Galloway returns to Parliament in sensational win in Bradford West - Labour/Coalition smashed

[articul8]

Attacked you say. That is not being called names, or if it is it's a very mild form of attack. Plenty of people on this thread seem to think it's quite acceptable.

But that's just it - saying something stupid like "Oi Jock, want an irn bru?" or some such is perhaps mildly racist but of no real consequence other than any unfunny dickhead saying something crass. It's not a big issue. But - given the history of physical violence directed against "Paki's" (not just Pakistani's incidentally, but Bengali's, Indians) then "Oi Paki, you stink of curry" is not just a bit of unfunny 'banter'. You must see the difference?

 

[frogwoman]

That and there isn't a huge attempt to demonise scottish people in the media etc ..

 

[butchersapron]

You've missed the whole point. Most current parliamentary seats are being abolished and many hundreds of MPs will have to stand for different ones and will start courting their new electorate as soon as the conclusions are brought before parliament, if not before. The proposed new Bradford West seat although it shares the same name is a very different seat to the current one, not just slightly different. However it is a) just a proposal still out for consultation with no firm decisions yet and could well be changed b) one of a number of proposed seats in Bradford taking in parts of the existing seat Galloway has just walked c) presumed that the new seat is unwinnable by a left of Labour candidate in the same terms that most commentators assumed the old seat was. The article failied to take account of any these factors and came to the remarkable conclusion that it was therefore impossible for Galloway to win reelection on the flimsiest of bases. Therefore it is pretentious, silly, nonsense, not informed comment or analysis.

Astonishing performance Mr Gate. I link to an article that suggested on the basis of the proposed boundary changes and looking at the political history of the wards that would be coming in and thosewards going out if the proposal are passed that GG (and labour) will be potentially setback in the next general election. You say, no no no this is twaddle, the real situation is that on the basis of the proposed boundary changes and looking at the political history of the wards that would be coming and what wards going out if the proposal are passed that GG (and labour) will be potentially setback in the next general election - hence you suggest that Galloway might opt to stand in another seat. Further, these changes, should they occur would be so minor as to make no difference whatsoever - how then do you square the circle of you thinking that GG might not stand again in the newly reconfigured seat?

 

[Lock&Light]

But that's just it - saying something stupid like "Oi Jock, want an irn bru?" or some such is perhaps mildly racist but of no real consequence other than any unfunny dickhead saying something crass. It's not a big issue. But - given the history of physical violence directed against "Paki's" (not just Pakistani's incidentally, but Bengali's, Indians) then "Oi Paki, you stink of curry" is not just a bit of unfunny 'banter'. You must see the difference?

That's not an accurate comparison. I've been physically attacked because I am Scottish and, as I've said before the use of the word "Paki" is not always (often, even usually, but not always) combined with physical violence.

This whole discussion started with me saying that I don't think adding the suffix -stan to a place-name is obviously and nessessarily racist and I stand by that.

 

[belboid]

That's not an accurate comparison. I've been physically attacked because I am Scottish

more likely you were physically attacked because you're a twat

 

[1%er]

But that's just it - saying something stupid like "Oi Jock, want an irn bru?" or some such is perhaps mildly racist but of no real consequence other than any unfunny dickhead saying something crass. It's not a big issue. But - given the history of physical violence directed against "Paki's" (not just Pakistani's incidentally, but Bengali's, Indians) then "Oi Paki, you stink of curry" is not just a bit of unfunny 'banter'. You must see the difference?

Is the word you are looking for "context"?

I often hear people using words like gringo, gaijin, brits, yanks, japs, aussie, kiwi, paki when talking about people from those countries in a very positive way.

 

[articul8]

This whole discussion started with me saying that I don't think adding the suffix -stan to a place-name is obviously and nessessarily racist and I stand by that.

For what other reason would use language in this way?

 

[Lock&Light]

For what other reason would use language in this way?

To denigrate the Islamic religion, of course.

 

[1%er]

For what other reason would use language in this way?

slang?

 

[articul8]

To denigrate the Islamic religion, of course.

oh well that's alright then. Tickety boo

 

[8115]

Could there not just be one thread for people to argue endlessly about Islam, what's racist and what's not? A sort of, "what's for tea" for the politics forum, you know?

 

[Lock&Light]

Could there not just be one thread for people to argue endlessly about Islam, what's racist and what's not? A sort of, "what's for tea" for the politics forum, you know?

Being anti-Islamism is not racist and I can't understand why anyone thinks it is. I'm also anti-Catholic (and anti-Protestant and anti all religions) but that hasn't stopped me having a Catholic wife with whom I've happily spent the last thirty years.

 

[binka]

Could there not just be one thread for people to argue endlessly about Islam, what's racist and what's not? A sort of, "what's for tea" for the politics forum, you know?

i admit there is a danger of ruining an interesting topic but casual racism should be challenged. personally im sick of seeing jhe continually put -stan on the end of every town or city where theres a pakistani muslim population. he may claim it isnt racist, his apologists may claim it isn't racist but it is the language of racists and there's no need for it

 

[belboid]

Being anti-Islamism is not racist and I can't understand why anyone thinks it is.

really? Really?

The BNP, EDL, etc etc, they're not racist then.

 

[Lock&Light]

really? Really?

The BNP, EDL, etc etc, they're not racist then.

How can you find that meaning in what I said. Do your brains work properly?

 

[8115]

Yeah I know. I was just being a bit flippant. I've just never been on a message board that was so bad for "wind them up and off they go" in this way.

 

[belboid]

How can you find that meaning in what I said. Do your brains work properly?

its called 'logic' -something you consistently fail to apply. Anyway, we all know why you dont think JHEs views are racist, its because you agree with them.

 

[Lock&Light]

The BNP and EDL are racist because they think and act racist, not because they dislike the Islamic religion.

 

[Kaka Tim]

Bradistan. Cos lots of folks there have pakistani heritage. Well they could be Indian or bangladeshi - but same differnce innit?

Bit like hindus, sikhs and muslims - they're all foreign type paki religions.

In fact its a bit like saying 'The White Hut' instead of 'the White house' becasue a black man is president.

No - definitely not racist at all.

 

[The39thStep]

RESPECT might do ok in the local elections. Bradford's a fucking disaster area these days in terms of town planning.

could be a key election issue

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Astonishing performance Mr Gate. I link to an article that suggested on the basis of the proposed boundary changes and looking at the political history of the wards that would be coming in and thosewards going out if the proposal are passed that GG (and labour) will be potentially setback in the next general election. You say, no no no this is twaddle, the real situation is that on the basis of the proposed boundary changes and looking at the political history of the wards that would be coming and what wards going out if the proposal are passed that GG (and labour) will be potentially setback in the next general election - hence you suggest that Galloway might opt to stand in another seat. Further, these changes, should they occur would be so minor as to make no difference whatsoever - how then do you square the circle of you thinking that GG might not stand again in the newly reconfigured seat?

Now you are talking twaddle - the conclusion of the article was that on the basis of the boundary changes Galloway will not win again. You're just arguing the toss for the sake of it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

When I was 17 I left home in a tiny West Highland village and went to London. As you might be able to imagine that was rather a daunting thing to do and I was not helped by the dozens of Londoners who thought it was funny to call me "Jock" and make jokes about Donald's trousers. These people were doing exactly the same thing as offensive and racist people who call immigrants from the sub-continent "Pakis" but I found it quite possible to shrug it off and get on with my life. All those thin-skinned people with over-extended toes should do the same.

The fact is that I don't use expressions like Islamabrad or Bradfordstan, but everyone knows that when JHE uses them he is referring to the Islamicness of those names, and not the ethnic background of immigrants.

By the way, your incessant use of abuse when replying to me will eventually result in my ignoring you which may or may not be your intention.

Thanks for the mini-autobiography. Not that I really care. If he's talking about their faith then why isn't it Bradhammed, immamgham, etc.? There are plenty of people from Pakistan and Bangladesh who are a secular as you (I presume) and I. My turn for a mini-bio - my secondary school was c. 50% Pakistani. Well over half of the ones I knew drank, didn't know a word of Arabic, had never seen the inside of a mosque and wouldn't know the Koran if you smacked them across the gob with it. He's equating Islam, or rather Islamism, with Pakistani and Bangladeshi ethnicity. That's racist. Particularly as he's using those terms in a derogatory way. Would it be ok to call someone a Paki or a nigger if you claimed to be doing it to mock Islam or evangelical Christianity? Of course fucking not.

Being anti-Islamism doesn't make him a racist - he's a racist who happens to also be anti-Islam. Although I suspect his racism and his islamophobia are both caused by the same thing. He's clearly a social inadequate and feels the need to take it out on brown people. Racism isn't all that trendy now so he expresses his racism in anti-islamic rhetoric. But sometimes the trick doesn't work too well - like on this thread.

You daft old fuckwit.

 

[Citizen66]

Being anti-Islamism is not racist and I can't understand why anyone thinks it is. I'm also anti-Catholic (and anti-Protestant and anti all religions) but that hasn't stopped me having a Catholic wife with whom I've happily spent the last thirty years.

You appear to be a bit confused. You're comparing being 'anti' Islamism (which is politics) with being 'anti' catholicism (which is religon) and as such you're the last person who should accuse others of being stupid.

 

[Lock&Light]

You appear to be a bit confused. You're comparing being 'anti' Islamism (which is politics) with being 'anti' catholicism (which is religon) and as such you're the last person who should accuse others of being stupid.

If only what you say was true.

 

[Citizen66]

If only what you say was true.

Where was I wrong?

 

[Lock&Light]

Where was I wrong?

You don't seem to understand that religion and politics are inextricably linked together and are impossible to analyze in isolation from each other.

 

[Citizen66]

You don't seem to understand that religion and politics are inextricably linked together and are impossible to analyze in isolation from each other.

Nice wriggle. I'm sure most Muslims are indeed Islamists. Perhaps you can back that up?

Out of curiosity, what religion was Soviet Communism 'inextricably linked' with?

 

[Citizen66]

Here's a few Islamic countries to help you along:

Iran
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Turkey

Which of the above are Islamist?

 

[Lock&Light]

Out of curiosity, what religion was Soviet Communism 'inextricably linked' with?

The politics of Russia ignores the Orthodox Church at its peril. That's a particularly naive question, even coming from you. Politics, just so you know, is not confined to political parties, even one so powerfull as the Soviet Communist one once was.

 

[Lock&Light]

Here's a few Islamic countries to help you along:

Iran
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Turkey

Which of the above are Islamist?

Now I'm done with you. Such a childish question is not worth me wasting my time over.