G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[paolo]

Last few pics:

Large: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3609/3432289547_b95625316b_b.jpg

Large: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3400/3432309195_3ef9a01e4f_b.jpg


Staying the night. Although I caught him here looking quite 'serious', he seemed a thoroughly amiable and genuine guy. If I wake up at a sensible time, I'll go back again and see how it's going.

Large: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3416/3432331537_4109c21c3e_b.jpg

 

[paolo]

the FIT team was entirely unnecessary though.

Where were they? I was mainly at the front, shooting, but I didn't see them - (hmm, maybe once?)

Unnecessary though as you say. Not the occasion. People were fine, the police were fine.

No need for FIT - there were *very* few smashy mob type people.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

The officer at the centre of investigation is now officially on 'sick leave'.. natch this will further delay the enquiries..

Peter Smyth, chairman of the Metropolitan Police Federation, said last night: ‘He has been certified sick. A senior officer travelled to where he is and suspended him in person. He was due to go away anyway. I suppose he’d booked a holiday for Easter.’

The officer under investigation also appears to have removed his epaulettes with their identifying number.

Police sources said TSG officers have been known to exchange identifying badges with colleagues before an expected clash with demonstrators.

If a complaint is made, an officer can claim that it is a case of mistaken identity because his or her unit was elsewhere at the time.

The officer allegedly involved in Mr Tomlinson’s death is understood to be based at Larkhall Lane police station in Lambeth, South London.

source

one law for them and....

 

[butchersapron]

Poor thing. If only he had a union.

 

[winjer]

Where were they? I was mainly at the front, shooting, but I didn't see them - (hmm, maybe once?)

Two pairs of alongside the march, in ordinary uniforms, another pair in one of the vans following, with photographer (Neal Williams) who sensibly never got out of the van.

there were *very* few smashy mob type people.

 

[paolo]

Two pairs of alongside the march, in ordinary uniforms, another pair in one of the vans following, with photographer (Neal Williams) who sensibly never got out of the van.

You'll need to explain the rolleyes. I'm not affiliated to anything/anyone and haven't ever been on a march until the Saturday G20.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

I was looking at the videos, thinking 'why exactly did they attack this poor guy?'

Looking at the cop boards is revealing: 'You don't know the whole story, you can't judge us, he might have given cheek', 'He wasn't being cooperative, he was walking slowly in defiance of police orders'

He basically died because he wasn't sufficiently submissive as far as I can tell. Which is a sad situation ...

 

[Donna Ferentes]

The one time I was ever hit by a policeman (Mansfield, 1984, miners' strike) it was when I was walking away from the cops but insufficiently swiftly for their liking.

 

[paolo]

I was looking at the videos, thinking 'why exactly did they attack this poor guy?'

Looking at the cop boards is revealing: 'You don't know the whole story, you can't judge us, he might have given cheek', 'He wasn't being cooperative, he was walking slowly in defiance of police orders'

He basically died because he wasn't sufficiently submissive as far as I can tell. Which is a sad situation ...

There are a couple of posters on that forum - sadly a minority - that are arguing sense, and unlike the rest, are doing with eloquence and maturity. Consensual policing. Without that, it's lose-lose, it really is.

 

[paolo]

The one time I was ever hit by a policeman (Mansfield, 1984, miners' strike) it was when I was walking away from the cops but insufficiently swiftly for their liking.

A time when "normal" people wouldn't have believed you.

 

[London_Calling]

This is why sourcing is important.

It's just your blog. You write:


Can you source that?

It's cribbed from this Guardian article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/11/g20-pathologist-ian-tomlinson

 

[sus]

"A source with detailed knowledge of the IPCC investigation expressed surprise that the initial post mortem was referred to Dr Patel rather than the Forensic Pathology Services, a body of nine independent forensic pathologists, including Dr Cary, which usually deals with suspicious deaths in London and the home counties."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/11/g20-pathologist-ian-tomlinson


It'd be interesting to know who has carried out pathology in other cases where deaths have occured during/after interaction with police. Whether it's been done by an individual pathologist such as Dr Patel, or if the body of nine mentioned above has been instucted. The police are clearly capable of lying, either by ommision or commision and having other dissembling authorities such as pathologists on the books would indicate systemic corruption.

 

[e19896]

We don't yet know how important it is whether the cops asked him, or he made a stupid and/or incompetent mistake, or he just wanted to go home, or...

But you can see how it could be.

And all we have is someone called "underclassrising" and their writeup that definitely smells of them reading the Guardian report that he did make that report (easily checked) and thinking "stands to reason that the agents of the state would have asked..." (not easily checked).

A man is killed by The Police some find this rather fucking out of order (is me being polite) so we read the f-ing Guardian do a write up of that and then we are what? Fuck did you not see the photos from the 11th, now i would be asking what the fuck the SWP and just why so much Police..

Unfortunately these bastards have been getting away with it for so long that they’ve become almost blatant in their contempt for the law. Justice for Ian would also mean justice for the hundreds (if not thoousands) of others who have suffered at the hands of the police over the years (including our good friends, Den, who had to have half of his bowel removed after being beaten by Met officers during the mining strike and T, who has two perfectly circular scars on the back of his head where police pulled out his dreads during a riot in Chapeltown, Leeds - T had been sitting in his own front room, when police burst in and dragged him out).but never let the death of a Man stop people and there bullshit, wellcome to how The Police traet the working class.

On Wed ill be attending The 20th Year memorial service for the 96 KILLED at The Hillsborough Disaster and here The Trots made there moves and was told fuck off, it has to be the same again and any Police presance at events to remember Ian is is just showing there contempt nothing more:

 

[sus]

"2001 documentary about deaths in police custody, of which at the time there had been 1,000 in the previous 30 years, without a single conviction."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/11/police-surveillance-marina-hyde

So who did the pathology in these cases. A lot to trawl through, but it'd definitely be good to see if there is any pattern there.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

"2001 documentary about deaths in police custody, of which at the time there had been 1,000 in the previous 30 years, without a single conviction."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/11/police-surveillance-marina-hyde

So who did the pathology in these cases. A lot to trawl through, but it'd definitely be good to see if there is any pattern there.

I don't think a single pathologist could do all 30 years worth so I don't think there any pattern to add or subtracted...

 

[lopsidedbunny]

The officer at the centre of investigation is now officially on 'sick leave'.. natch this will further delay the enquiries..


source

one law for them and....

So he booked a holiday but on "sick leave" then the cops came and told him that he suspended Hmmm and now he's uncontactable...

This wouldn't happen at my work place that's for sure...

 

[sus]

I don't think a single pathologist could do all 30 years worth so I don't think there any pattern to add or subtracted...

I'm not suggesting that one could. I'd like to know the veracity of the pathologists the police use in cases where they might be at fault. It'd be interesting to know whether the most contentious cases are dealt with by the same pathologists or if it is random depending on availability etc. It seems widely considered that the accountability of the police has lessened over the past 30 years. Lets have the data.

 

[Corax]

The "No CCTV" footage line has to be pursued hard surely. Prima Facie bollocks. Has anyone managed to go recce the site, check with local building security etc yet?

 

[winjer]

You'll need to explain the rolleyes. I'm not affiliated to anything/anyone and haven't ever been on a march until the Saturday G20.

In that case I'm even more surprised you expect to be able to recognise "smashy mob type people", whatever they might be, let alone count them.

 

[Corax]

3 year wait for verdict

Almost makes me feel we can't just sit back and trust in 'the process'.

 

[Corax]

In that case I'm rather surprised you expect to be able to recognise "smashy mob type people", whatever they might be, let alone count them.

tbf, unless people know why folks 'go ninja', the media's spin that anyone masked and hooded is a violent troublemaker looks plausible. This is Through The Looking Glass time for a lot of people, so a little naivity is to be expected no?

 

[maomao]

3 year wait for verdict

Almost makes me feel we can't just sit back and trust in 'the process'.

I read that too, very depressing. But that's for an inquest verdict, how does that relate to the possible criminal proceedings for manslaughter and the other cases being threatened by injured protestors?

 

[winjer]

tbf, unless people know why folks 'go ninja', the media's spin that anyone masked and hooded is a violent troublemaker looks plausible. This is Through The Looking Glass time for a lot of people, so a little naivity is to be expected no?

You're right, I'm too used to the p/d/a forum being inhabited by politicos.

 

[Corax]

I read that too, very depressing. But that's for an inquest verdict, how does that relate to the possible criminal proceedings for manslaughter and the other cases being threatened by injured protestors?

For the manslaughter bit; I'd assume that proceedings could not brought until cause of death was established. That would mean 3 years suspended on full pay for one very naughty little piggy.

 

[AKA pseudonym]

Im presuming the family will have to examine a civil case against the Police to get any real satisfaction. Just by googling I notice quite a few law firms in London specialise in this field..

Kinda says it all that to get any justice you have to fight for it, not expect it..
I am sure and hope that the family are recieving the best legal advice. It is up to all of us, who care in any way to support them and highlight the Bullshit that is going on...

Ive a real feeling they arent gonna get away with this travesty if we keep the pressure on...

The team has a strong track record of advising those involved in and arrested in demonstrations such as anti-globalisation, anti-war or pro-green issues.

Fisher Meredith

Home Office Doc: COMPLAINTS AGAINST THE POLICE
FRAMEWORK FOR A NEW SYSTEM (pdf 11 pages)

 

[laptop]

It's cribbed from this Guardian article:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/11/g20-pathologist-ian-tomlinson

You missed the posts where I pointed out that there's at least one possibly-important thing that enumbers likely made up:

police dropped a criminal investigation after the pathologist gave it as his opinion that the victim, a woman, had died of natural causes. A man who lived in the flat where the body was found went on to murder two other women and mutilate their bodies.

Dr Patel was also involved in an incident where the police asked him to record a ‘death by natural causes’ verdict

E2A: Which is, of course, the basis for enumbers's headline. Which is sourced how?

Just. Give. Sources. For stuff that appears to be reporting.

 

[durruti02]

sorry not sure if posted before but police refusing to let ambulance thru

 

[e19896]

You missed the posts where I pointed out that there's at least one possibly-important thing that enumbers likely made up:





E2A: Which is, of course, the basis for enumbers's headline. Which is sourced how?

Just. Give. Sources. For stuff that appears to be reporting.

A man is killed by The Police some find this rather fucking out of order (is me being polite) so we read the f-ing Guardian do a write up of that and then we are what? Fuck did you not see the photos from the 11th, now i would be asking what the fuck the SWP and just why so much Police..

Unfortunately these bastards have been getting away with it for so long that they’ve become almost blatant in their contempt for the law. Justice for Ian would also mean justice for the hundreds (if not thoousands) of others who have suffered at the hands of the police over the years (including our good friends, Den, who had to have half of his bowel removed after being beaten by Met officers during the mining strike and T, who has two perfectly circular scars on the back of his head where police pulled out his dreads during a riot in Chapeltown, Leeds - T had been sitting in his own front room, when police burst in and dragged him out).but never let the death of a Man stop people and there bullshit, wellcome to how The Police traet the working class.

On Wed ill be attending The 20th Year memorial service for the 96 KILLED at The Hillsborough Disaster and here The Trots made there moves and was told fuck off, it has to be the same again and any Police presance at events to remember Ian is is just showing there contempt nothing more:

as said befor:

 

[pogofish]

This letter appeared in my local paper:

Death of London newspaper vendor

SIR, – The sudden death of Ian Tomlinson, a newspaper vendor who innocently got caught up in the illegal G20 protest, is regrettable and my sympathies go out to his family. However, to immediately blame the policeman who pushed and then hit him with a baton is not casting the net of blame far enough.

Also to be included should be the protesters and their anarchist organisers; without them there would have been no riot and no need for police there at that time.

Also to be included should be the organisers of the summit.

Every time we have a summit of this type there is a riotous protest in whichever major city it is held. Surely a much safer alternative would be to hold these summits at sea, either on a luxury liner (with policing costs at £7.2million, this may be a cheaper alternative) or a large naval vessel – for example, an aircraft carrier – in international waters.

Lastly, what about the victim himself? To have a heart attack at his age could easily be lifestyle-related. It could have happened at any time to him and the baton blow may be purely coincidental.

Richard Stanley,

Lindsay Place,

Wick.

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1165273/

 

[Badger Kitten]

That letter is classic.

Surely the Romans are to blame for choosing the original site of London so as to make it inevitable that anybody walking its narrow streets would at some point run into a police officer wielding a baton.