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G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

shaman75 said:
I wonder how they know he was there at 6pm. Camera time stamp perhaps?

I'm not saying he wasn't there then, but it occurs to me that the clocks went forward on the sunday and not everyone would have adjusted their camera time settings.
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His boss clearly states he sent him home at 7pm.:confused:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6058186.ece

Barry Smith, 55, an Evening Standard vendor who had known Mr Tomlinson for 26 years, said he helped out on the stall every day, starting at 7am.

Speaking through tears, Mr Smith told the newspaper: "Ian was always there with me, from the minute I started work until the end of the day. He had a drink problem but that day he was completely sober and was looking forward to starting work again the next day.

"At 7pm, I had run out of papers so I told him to go home. His last words to me were 'See you tomorrow Barry, if I'm still living and breathing'. It tears me apart thinking about that now."
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ymu said:
The problem for the police is that there is absolutely no justification for the attack. No conceivable way to defend it. Being homeless, being drunk, being a protester, not being a protester - none of these things are cause for being beaten up by police.
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yep.
 
_pH_ said:
He is wobbly in the footage, that's what made me think of head injury. BUT since then the Sun has published that other witness statement that seems to suggest he was pissed at just gone 6pm, which was well before he got smacked on the head with the baton.
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We don't know when he first got hit with a baton. Lots of people were getting hit all day and he was first in contact with the police at 18:07, when they first blocked his route home.

The post mortem should come up with an estimate of the number of blows struck, and where. Not when though.
 
ymu said:
We don't know when he first got hit with a baton. Lots of people were getting hit all day and he was first in contact with the police at 18:07, when they first blocked his route home.

The post mortem should come up with an estimate of the number of blows struck, and where. Not when though.
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yeah this is true. it's believed that he was first hit at around 7.10pm (see this), but it's possible he was hit earlier - maybe at the incident reported in the Sun?
 
_pH_ said:
I'm :confused: by that too.
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There isn't much humour in any of this (to say the least), but it would be kind of funny if the Sun (and the police who obviously fed them the story) had simply forgotten about British Summer Time.
 
_pH_ said:
I'm :confused: by that too.
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It's not clear. Other reports, with identical quotes, say that they ran out earlier than usual - by 6pm - because the papers were reporting on the protests. It's not clear which set of journalists are confused - and we don't know if the time-stamp on the ambulance is GMT or BST.
 
His boss must've know what time it was.

I have emailed the sun.

Dunno if they'll be able to read it, as I have used a few words with more than one syllable
 
And here is, I think, the counter-spin:


BBC said:
Police chief quits over blunder

Britain's top counter-terrorism officer has quit after admitting he could have jeopardised an operation which aimed to thwart a possible al-Qaeda terror plot.

Assistant Commissioner Bob Quick resigned after he was photographed displaying a secret document as he arrived at Downing Street on Wednesday.

_45647637_robert_quick_08_04_09_1.jpg


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7991307.stm
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What a difficult and dangerous job they do, how swift they are to take action... against police who foul up... sometimes.
 
laptop said:
And here is, I think, the counter-spin:
What a difficult and dangerous job they do, how swift they are to take action... against police who foul up... sometimes.
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Nah, I reckon that's just coincidence. Been a shit week for the police generally:

- murdered innocent man at demonstration
- murdered innocent schoolgirl by driving too fast
- compromised multi-million quid counter-terrorist operation

Incompetence throughout the entire organisation :rolleyes:
 
4thwrite said:
Talking about the first post mortem, didn't it say something like 'there were no bruises or scratches' [when discussing what might have contributed to the heat attack]? What the fuck does that say about the competence/impartiality of that post mortem? His face and head were clearly bruised in the recent images seen on this thread.
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Thought so... this from esnews:

The IPCC has ordered a second post-mortem test as part of its inquiry. The first, carried out on Friday, recorded that Mr Tomlinson died of a heart attack and that there were no signs of cuts or bruises to his head or shoulders
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http://www.esnews.co.uk/?p=3575
 
ymu said:
We don't know when he first got hit with a baton. Lots of people were getting hit all day and he was first in contact with the police at 18:07, when they first blocked his route home.

The post mortem should come up with an estimate of the number of blows struck, and where. Not when though.
Click to expand...
is that timing just coming from the Sun?

it looks to me like they're taking the time stamp from the photos as being the source for their timings, but that particular time stamp could well be an hour out being as we've only just changed the clocks, and it doesn't seem to fit with any of the other evidence.
 
If the second post mortem contradicts the first that'll be a whole new river of shit for the filth/the IPCC/the Home Office/whoever else has got their fingerprints on this train wreck of an 'investigation' to deal with. Maybe the arse-covering culture of the police and their various chums will finally be blown wide open by all of this...

...but I doubt it. Their incompetence is matched only by their knack for getting away with it :mad:
 
My letter to my MP if anyone wants some sort of guide (please don't copy it and send it if you live in Hackney):

Dear Meg Hillier,

I was shocked and saddened by the death of Ian Tomlinson as I'm sure many other Hackney residents were. As a participant in previous demonstration I was not at all surprised by the willingness of police to strike a member of the public but have been truly sickened by what would appear to be attempts by police to cover this up.

As a member of your constituency I would hope that you raise the issue of the enquiry in parliament and help ensure that it is carried out in as impartial a manner as possible. It is vital that the public see a transparent and exhaustive investigation in this case or confidence in not just the police but in the government as a whole will be seriously undermined if there is any trace of dishonesty.


Yours sincerely,
Maomao
 
Good on you. I'm in the middle of one to my mp, but it is spiralling out of control. Been at it for two days now. Think I need to thin it out a bit and stick to the point, which is the assault and attempts to cover up, but also the tactic of kettling, the media hype before the event and the use of unnecessary force against the public.
 
maomao said:
Shit, just re-read that and the last sentence is shit. I sent it as well. :oops:
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If you'd trimmed off 'if there is any trace of dishonesty' you'd have been fine :)

And there's no chance of a 'trace of dishonesty' anyway, lies are already surrounding this incident like flies on dog shit :(
 
A fuckin' sad state of affairs yet again :(

How many more innocent people are to die at the hands of these fuckin' filthy bastards? :(
 
there's a new video on the guardian website
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/09/g20-video-ian-tomlinson-death

it is of when the police were taking over from the public in looking after ian,
when the "hail of missiles" were thrown.

The strange thing is that the article says
"Although this video does not show the entire incident, when the camera is rolling, no missiles are thrown."

However just before the member of the public shouts "back the fuck up"
you do see something flying in...
only one thing mind. Just seems odd that whoever from the Guardian posted the video and wrote the article doesn't see it.
 
shaman75 said:
Good on you. I'm in the middle of one to my mp, but it is spiralling out of control. Been at it for two days now. Think I need to thin it out a bit and stick to the point, which is the assault and attempts to cover up, but also the tactic of kettling, the media hype before the event and the use of unnecessary force against the public.
Click to expand...

Yes.

The ideal letter to an MP is about 300 words.

  1. I write as a constituent of yours.
  2. This ... has happened.
  3. This ... is the polemical/political/analytic bit.
  4. This ... is the connection to our consitutency.
  5. This ... is what I want you to do (and it's something you can do as a backbench MP).

Expand spacing and margins to make it 1 side of airy A4.

In this case the "what I want you to do" could be to promote an Early Day Motion calling for a thoroughgoing national inquiry into police training (with particular reference to excluding psychopaths from police forces?)

I don't see an EDM on this yet... http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMList.aspx


E2A: the thing about all the stuff you leave out is that someone else will surely write it in their letter. You could even divvy the things that need to be said up, with others in your consituency.
 
I believe the woman with the brown hair in a ponytail wearing the leather jacket is the medical student who attended him. You can see the police moving her away and blocking her off from him in that video.
 
It's obvious why the crowd are disgusted. You can hear people saying 'you lot did this to him' as they move people away.

They have just watched him be assaulted and collapse, and when people are trying to help, the police are moving them on as if they are on private property.
 
dweller said:
there's a new video on the guardian website
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/09/g20-video-ian-tomlinson-death

it is of when the police were taking over from the public in looking after ian,
when the "hail of missiles" were thrown.

The strange thing is that the article says
"Although this video does not show the entire incident, when the camera is rolling, no missiles are thrown."

However just before the member of the public shouts "back the fuck up"
you do see something flying in...
only one thing mind. Just seems odd that whoever from the Guardian posted the video and wrote the article doesn't see it.
Click to expand...
Slowly but surely the police lies reveal themselves :cool:
 
Iguana said:
I believe the woman with the brown hair in a ponytail wearing the leather jacket is the medical student who attended him. You can see the police moving her away and blocking her off from him in that video.
Click to expand...

Yep, that's her. She was interviewed on C4 news last night but didn't wish to be identified.
 
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