TopCat
Putin fanboy
They have started already...
A DRIP DRIP of smears and lies and bullshit.
He is now a "homeless alcoholic".
We should play fuckwit bingo, see how many smears the papers will publish today, anyone checked the Standard yet?
G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP
- Thread starter e19896
- Start date
They have started already...
A DRIP DRIP of smears and lies and bullshit.
He is now a "homeless alcoholic".
We should play fuckwit bingo, see how many smears the papers will publish today, anyone checked the Standard yet?
shaman75
Well-Known Member
Mail running headline that he was assaulted three times.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shows-riot-officers-beat-man-times-died.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-shows-riot-officers-beat-man-times-died.html
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
well they won't be able to trot out the 'on benefits' shit- it's known he worked on a newstand.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I am not saying that any of the protestors did anything wrong, in fact from everything I've read (which is pretty much everything possible) they did everything as well as they could have, and there could be no question of any blame being attached to them.
The people I'm saying should have blame attached to them are the 2 policemen with 'medic' written on their backs who took over his treatment from the original first aiders on the scene, refused to listen to their opinions, or the patients history, refused to talk to the ambulance dispatcher, and decided to either order, or authorise the movement of the patient without the appropriate equipment (as far as I can tell) which IMO almost certainly directly contributed to the patient's heart stopping, and him stopping breathing and dying before the ambulance could arrive. If these orders either came from above, or were authorised from above, then the officer that gave or authorised that order could well also be culpable IMO, definately so if they over-ruled the medics.
if the medics weren't adequately trained or experienced, then that is an organisational issue, and the Met would become liable as an organisation for putting inexperienced / badly trained first aiders into this kid of situation in a uniform that labels them not as first aiders, but as medics... something that could feed into / be key to any corporate manslaughter prosecution.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
And/or a football hooligan.
Yossarian
⏭️
He was 'drunkenly blocking a police van,' according to the Scum...
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2368505.ece
Interesting though that they've mentioned the "potentially illegal to photograph a Police Officer" though in that story - methinks another agenda being introduced there as well
editor
hiraethified
On that one page alone, the Mail manage to get "homeless alcoholic" in three times.
The cunts.
winjer
holocene death beat
It's already been on this thread twice, it shows some CoL dogs, CoL and Met Level 1s (TSG), Met Level 2s (probably GD from other photos), and five of the FIT - some of whose names I've given to the IPCC.
editor
hiraethified
That van looks distinctly parked to me and he is most definitely not "standing in the middle of the road."
You think the Sun would have learnt from Hillsborough about posting up such obvious bullshit.
Piers Gibbon
Well-Known Member
I had a chat with a policeman yesterday, nice guy really but the blinkered attitude was deeply saddening
his response was that his colleague was just unlucky, he had pushed him "at the hips, the way we are trained" - to be fair this was before the damning secondary footage came out
he also stated very firmly that the victim was obviously deliberately winding the police up by not moving faster when told to...and that anyone doing that is of course fair game for a push. That made me feel very depressed, because he said this as if any reasonable person would agree - we should trot at the double whenever we are told, no questions
Oh and kettling is a fair and reasonable response to the "extreme violence" from the protesters. He just smiled indulgently when I said kettling was likely to turn law abiding citizens into angry people who are very suspicious of the police
Basically there was no gaps anywhere in his world view of police correctness
After talking to him I really felt hopeless ...I believe any police-led investigation of alleged police malpractice is likely to be deeply flawed from the start - because they feel they are just right, and therefore any unfortunate errors are perhaps regrettable but insignificant in the grand scale of things
so it feels appropriate to ignore/bury/spin/lie/obfuscate/smear/withhold/adjust/erase rather than really try to ensure justice is done.
I bet there are police who would agree that if they lose our consent their job is made more difficult. I really hope they speak out.
his response was that his colleague was just unlucky, he had pushed him "at the hips, the way we are trained" - to be fair this was before the damning secondary footage came out
he also stated very firmly that the victim was obviously deliberately winding the police up by not moving faster when told to...and that anyone doing that is of course fair game for a push. That made me feel very depressed, because he said this as if any reasonable person would agree - we should trot at the double whenever we are told, no questions
Oh and kettling is a fair and reasonable response to the "extreme violence" from the protesters. He just smiled indulgently when I said kettling was likely to turn law abiding citizens into angry people who are very suspicious of the police
Basically there was no gaps anywhere in his world view of police correctness
After talking to him I really felt hopeless ...I believe any police-led investigation of alleged police malpractice is likely to be deeply flawed from the start - because they feel they are just right, and therefore any unfortunate errors are perhaps regrettable but insignificant in the grand scale of things
so it feels appropriate to ignore/bury/spin/lie/obfuscate/smear/withhold/adjust/erase rather than really try to ensure justice is done.
I bet there are police who would agree that if they lose our consent their job is made more difficult. I really hope they speak out.
Just catching up since page 34 ... this from later pages ...
Thanks for that winjer, that post from lostexpectation jumped out at me as well, I was also going to challenge him to source that well dubious 'drunkenness' claim too but you had the link!
ETA a bit later : and lo and behold,. only a little later the claim that he was drunk on the day (which Barry Smith specifically stated he wasn't) is recycled from a Police 'briefing' into the Sun as 'fact'
(no real surprise at the Police spin there but 
)
lostexpectation said:
Thanks for that winjer, that post from lostexpectation jumped out at me as well, I was also going to challenge him to source that well dubious 'drunkenness' claim too but you had the link!
ETA a bit later : and lo and behold,. only a little later the claim that he was drunk on the day (which Barry Smith specifically stated he wasn't) is recycled from a Police 'briefing' into the Sun as 'fact'
(no real surprise at the Police spin there but )
Callie
Pivoting
I do think it is very misleading - if what people have said about the 'police medics' is correct - and that they should not be advertised as such.
From what agricola said earlier I got the impression that a lot of the officers involved probably hadn't received specific training to deal with the given situation (public order, riots, protests, whatever you want to call it!) and that that in itself is quite a big issue.
If the officer seen to push and strike Mr Tomlinson hasn't received adequet training what on earth did he think he was doing - because although I know it quite often happens that people don't have the right training but are put into a situation where they would need it, the person concerned is aware of that and knows when to take a step back.
Yossarian said:
The Sun have by far the worst track record of any paper of recycling unattibuted/anonymous Police 'briefings' as 'fact'
Iguana
Well-Known Member
I've only got basic first aid training but I'm very surprised that 6 minutes would be enough to declare someone dead. I've always been taught that if you are tending someone who's not breathing or heart has stopped you don't stop giving CPR until help arrives. Even a doctor in that situation should keep giving CPR until someone with better equipment can take over.
Once the ambulance arrived I assume Tomlinson was defibrillated before being declared dead? 6 minutes between the ambulance being called while he's still conscious, him stopping breathing and CPR being administered until the ambulance arrived, the paramedics arriving and attempting treatment before stating he is dead seems very fast to me. I could be completely wrong, and I only have very, very basic training, so perhaps that is normal.
Either way I doubt there was anyone immediately available within the police who were there who was more qualified than a 3rd year medical student. I hope stopping her from continuing to attend him until the paramedics or a doctor arrived will be seen as criminal.
lopsidedbunny
Active Member
Just been doing a bit of catch up it was already been mention about Ian Tomlinson "picture" of him being surrounded by cops when he was "hit" the first time... anyone got this "Picture"???
lopsidedbunny
Active Member
Only the fucking S(p)un.
AKA pseudonym
Well-Known Member
I believe this tactic of 'smearing' Ian T as homeless/drunkard was to be fully expected and will backfire hopefully.
There has been a police operation, backed by a number of poverty pimp charities known as 'Operation Poncho' running for a while now in London that is targetted at harrassing homeless peeps. Although Ian lived at a 'hostel' he would have been only too aware of how the Police treat vulnerable people..
In order not to derail this important thread I will start another on this operation as it is important to recognise that Police actions at the 'protest' are not unique to homeless peeps and need to be considered and understood as we try to come to some understanding and more importantly some action on behalf of Ian
btw: any word of the 'blue ribbon' campaign I mentioned earlier in the thread?
Source on this one please KT?
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I found it quickly on the beeb news site.
The Sun have by far the worst track record of any paper of recycling unattibuted/anonymous Police 'briefings' as 'fact'
It's not unattributed or anonymous, though
And a little bit of salt. And a heafty dose of BBC missdirection and deflection.
Iguana said:
I sincerely hope this particular aspect is investigated further. Good on free spirit and Iguanma for focussing on it ...
That para you posted is from the Sun?
Surely dubious?
And directly contradicted by Barry Smith's statement to the Times.
winjer
holocene death beat
The officer involved is reported to be from the TSG, they train regularly to the worst standard: Level 1, there are 720 of them in the Met and ~20-40 in the CoL. The other officers all appear Level 2 trained, they train less regularly and work in boroughs, there are ~2,400 of them in the Met.
Level 3 trained officers don't go out with riot shields.
You think that horrible bastard has got a PhD?
DaveCinzano
WATCH OUT, GEORGE, HE'S GOT A SCREWDRIVER!
The dog handlers and other soft hats are CoL , the ones in helmets are Met, not far out of shot is a line of BTP. The most senior officer seen nearby is a CoL Chief Super, later seen with ambulances at the junction of Cornhill and Bishopsgate:
Is that not a City of London Inspector rather than Chief Superintendent? I can only see two pips on his epaulettes.
He also looks somewhat like this CoL Inspector out and about kettling his merry way around outside the Bank of England the next day, threatening journalists with arrest under s14 of the Public Order Act (as captured by photographer Marc Vallée):
http://www.marcvallee.co.uk/blog/2009/04/g20-police-use-public-order-act-on-the-media/
Would this be the memorial event on the Thursday held for Ian Tomlinson?
That para you posted is from the Sun?
Surely dubious?
And directly contradicted by Barry Smith's statement to the Times.
Yes.
Quite possibly.
Yes.
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