G20: Getting to the truth- the death of Ian Tomlinson RIP

[paolo]

I'll be going along to the march on Saturday.

 

[cesare]

The man who lifted Ian Tomlinson to his feet after a riot officer hit him with a baton and threw him to the ground told the Guardian last night how the attack unfolded.

Alan Edwards, 34, from Derbyshire said he rushed to Mr Tomlinson's aid because he was worried the officers would continue the violent attack. "I didn't know what they were going to do to him," he said. "I couldn't just leave him there."

Edwards said he had been trapped inside police cordons around Cornhill, near the Bank of England, for about six hours when he first saw Mr Tomlinson. "I was stood on the corner, and basically they'd pushed [Tomlinson] around. He was saying: 'I want to go home. I live down there. I'm trying to get home.'" Mr Tomlinson was obeying police orders to move up the street, Edwards said.

His attention had been drawn to Mr Tomlinson when the street suddenly became flooded with barking dogs.

"I was watching up the street where the dogs were. He came flying towards me and because of where I was he literally came straight at me," he said.

"It's just the way he flew - he went about six feet. I didn't talk to him straight away. I was more concerned police wouldn't get at him. They'd already pushed him over."

Edwards will make a full statement to the Independent Police Complaints Commission today. But he has already given a preliminary description to the police watchdog of what happened. "When I spoke to the lady at the IPCC she asked what happened when [Tomlinson] fell over. I said: 'He didn't fall, he was pushed.'" Edwards's evidence could prove crucial to the criminal investigation into Mr Tomlinson's death. He is the only person to have said publicly he made direct eye contact with the riot officer who assaulted Mr Tomlinson.

"I tried to eyeball him to see if I would remember who he was but he was balacavaed up," Edwards said. "All you could see was his hands and his eyes. He looked slightly crazy. That's why I stood my ground a bit."

After picking up Mr Tomlinson from the ground, Edwards had a brief exchange with him. "I said, you OK, mate? He said: No, I live down there - that's where I live. I can't get there any other way. I'm trying to get home."

Edwards, who had been to demonstrations before, said at the time he had not been "particularly shocked" by the assault because he had seen similar incidents in the past. His message to Mr Tomlinson's family would be: "I am sorry I could not help any more."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/09/g20-police-assault-ian-tomlinson-g201

 

[Barking_Mad]

This image clearly shows he had some injury to the left side of his head.

 

[Barking_Mad]

...

Police response to Ian Tomlinson's death

*1 April – Statement from the Metropolitan Police

A member of the public went to a police officer on a cordon to say that there was a man who had collapsed round the corner.

The officer sent two police medics through the cordon line where they found a man who had stopped breathing. They called for LAS [London Ambulance Service] support about 19.30. The officers gave him an initial check and cleared his airway before moving him back behind the cordon line to a clear area where they gave him CPR.

The officers took the decision to move him as during this time a number of missiles – believed to be bottles – were being thrown at them. LAS took the man to hospital where he was pronounced dead.

*4 April – Statement from the City of London Police

A post-mortem examination ... found he died of natural causes. [He] suffered a sudden heart attack while on his way home from work. The family thanked all the people who rushed to Ian's aid when he collapsed and said how grateful they are for all the efforts made to help.

*8 April – Statement Sir Paul Stephenson, Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police

My thoughts are with Mr Tomlinson's family at this time. The images that have now been released raise obvious concerns and it is absolutely right and proper that there is a full investigation into this matter, which the Met will fully support.

 

[bluestreak]

...

The police lie, people die.

 

[sus]

The more people and independent agencies that get involved, the harder it is to cover up the truth.

There's obviously still plenty of scope for arse-covering, rank closing and sleight of hand, but sometimes the legal system does work (perhaps I have a little more faith than you after personally going through an Old Bailey trial and finding the judge to be extremely fair when faced with dodgy police evidence).

What happened to the the police that provided this dodgy evidence?

10 to 1 the answer's nothing. Just like the countless other times when the OB get away with fabricating evidence.

 

[Barking_Mad]

........

A picture began to emerge today of the life of Ian Tomlinson, the newspaper vendor who died after was attacked by a police officer during the G20 protests last week.

On the night he died, the 47-year-old, known as Tommo to his friends, was on his way to watch a football match at the Lindsey Hotel, a hostel near Smithfield meat market on the edge of the City, where he had lodged since October after periods of homelessness.

As a young man of 17, he moved to London from Matlock, in Derbyshire, and worked as a scaffolder, according to friends. At the time of his death he was estranged from his wife, Julia Tomlinson, and had nine children: five girls and four boys, aged between 15 and 32.

According to John, a friend who met Tomlinson 13 years ago when they were living on the streets together, he suffered from a drink problem that he was struggling to beat.

"He did drink a lot and that's why he split up with his wife and kids," said John. "He didn't talk about them much because it made him upset and he'd cry about it. When he drank he would get emotional, but just sad about his family – never violent.

"I never realised he was just attacked like that. You can see he wasn't doing anything wrong. He'll have just been wanting to get back to the hostel, probably for a drink. He wasn't interested in the protests – we never talked about anything like that. He was always truthful and had respect for anyone. He would always get in the middle if someone else was in a fight. He didn't even really swear."

John said Tomlinson had hoped to use the hostel as a fresh start that would get him back together with his family.

"He was earning some money and had even gone to detox to try and get off the drink," he said. "He didn't last very long but he was trying because he wanted to see his family again, for his children's sake. I remember two days before his death we were talking about our lives. He told me not to make the same mistakes he had. Then I heard the news. It was a shock."

Barry Smith, who runs a newspaper stall outside Monument station and knew Tomlinson for 26 years, said: "He was like a brother to me. I never had a brother but he looked after me and would stand up for me."

Max, 67, a friend for more than 30 years, said Tomlinson had a troubled life but was "loved" by the City workers around Monument underground station, where he helped to sell the Evening Standard with Smith.

"If you mentioned Tommo to any of the City workers around there they would know him. He was a popular guy. He was even invited to the wedding of a gardener at a local church."

Selling copies of the newspaper was a passion for Tomlinson, Max said, along with the football team he supported, Millwall. "He would set up his newspaper stall in the morning. He used to get office workers cups of tea. He'd do anything for office workers in the area."

His son, Paul, said: "He was a lovable man. He loved his family and he loved his job on the newspaper stand."

 

[Yossarian]

This has been big news all over the world - it's even made the papers here in Hong Kong.

I had the impression that the Met was doing its best to avoid being embarrassed by protesters during the G20 when the world's media was watching. but now they've done a lot worse than embarrass themselves, they've revealed themselves - again - to be psychotic, incompetent liars and ruined whatever was left of their reputation.

 

[winjer]

Just seen this video



Very short, but this shows a bit more police action in the royal exchange passage around the time of the tomlinson events.

This seems to be what the Times describes as: Minutes earlier the pedestrianised street had been the scene of a pitched battle between four officers surrounded by a mob of between 20 and 25 violent protesters.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6062637.ece

 

[ska invita]

IMO this shows why people don't have faith in the IPCC to investigate this properly.

...more so the fact that if there was a trial everyone would be let of for having acted 'in good faith' or some other such bollocks.

 

[shaman75]

This seems to be what the Times describes as: Minutes earlier the pedestrianised street had been the scene of a pitched battle between four officers surrounded by a mob of between 20 and 25 violent protesters.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6062637.ece

Looks pretty nasty if that is someone getting grabbed by the scruff or hair and slammed to the floor at the very end.

 

[e19896]

I'll be going along to the march on Saturday.

Do my anger for me brother, i would come but Sheffield to London is far, there are other actions and one is working a way to them, rage is all i feel at the moment:

 

[Callie]

Title: G20 Bank of England Protest 1/04/09 Line of Police with dogs (for clarity!)


No violence in this clip but this looks like the right spot at Cornhill but there is no time given for when it was filmed. Perhaps useful for ID'ing which officers were around in that area? Mostly CoL dog handlers though.

 

[editor]

This seems to be what the Times describes as: Minutes earlier the pedestrianised street had been the scene of a pitched battle between four officers surrounded by a mob of between 20 and 25 violent protesters.

The only violence I can see in that YouTube clip is from the police.

And here's an example of a big fat police lie:

Police later claimed that they had to move Mr Tomlinson because they came under attack from missiles. However, analysis of television footage and photographs shows just one bottle, probably plastic, being thrown in the area.

 

[free spirit]

here's something that's been niggling at me ever since the night it first happened.

At 7.24pm when the initial public call to the London Ambulance Service is made Ian Tomlinson is still breathing and still has a pulse, albeit a weak one.

It is only at 7.30pm that the police inform London Ambulance service that he has stopped breathing.

"We received a 999 (emergency) call at 7:24 pm (1824 GMT) from a member of the public reporting that a man had fallen over and was unconscious, but was breathing," said the London Ambulance Service.
"At 7:30 pm we were informed by the police that a man at the location had stopped breathing."

[source]

So what happened in these 6 minutes to cause his heart to stop, and his breathing to fail completely?

Well, in this time the police decided to move him, which being as there is no stretcher present at that point, leads me to think that he would have been carried bodily by the coppers and 'medics' (sorry, shit first aiders). This almost certainly means at least some of his weight would have been taken by the arms, which put's pressure across the heart and lungs... pressure that could well have been enough to stop a weak heart, and arrest someones breathing if they were already in difficulties.

This is one of the reasons why first aid guidelines clearly state that you should never move a patient unless there is a serious threat of further injury or death if the patient is left in that position.

This will be why the police felt the need to try to justify there movement of Ian from the first reports by talking about protestors throwing bottles, but all the evidence that has come out since clearly shows that this is utter bollocks, and there was absolutely no danger serious enough to risk moving him.

If I'm right about this sequence of events, then IMO the police 'medics' are also at fault for Ian's death, and could well have actually literally killed him through their actions.

I'm fairly seriously thinking that had the police left the original first aiders to deal with the incident until the arrival of the paramedics then Ian would quite possibly have still been alive now, because the protestors would have followed the guidance of the Ambulance Service operator, and would not have moved him.



sersiously calls into question the wisdom of putting the word 'medic' on the back of a badly trained, inexperienced first aider, because other first aid trained people will assume that someone who has the word medic on heir uniform will actually have greater medical knowledge than they do and bow to their judgement as in this case... medics should be medically trained, not just have done a fuckign first aid course - that makes you a first aider, nothing more.

any medically trained people care to comment on this?

 

[GoneCoastal]

No violence in this clip but this looks like the right spot at Cornhill but there is no time given for when it was filmed. Perhaps useful for ID'ing which officers were around in that area? Mostly CoL dog handlers though.

Unless I'm mistaken it looks like Ian Tomlinson is just caught in the first few seconds of that clip (on the right). Can I just see his right arm and t-shirts ?

 

[Geri]

Unless I'm mistaken it looks like Ian Tomlinson is just caught in the first few seconds of that clip (on the right). Can I just see his right arm and t-shirts ?

I think you might be right.

 

[shaman75]

Unless I'm mistaken it looks like Ian Tomlinson is just caught in the first few seconds of that clip (on the right). Can I just see his right arm and t-shirts ?

yes it is.

as far as i am aware, this is directly after the second (?) attack, much publicised in the media. In that, he is helped up and makes his way off to the right, which is where this video seems to pick him up.

interestingly, the guardian video states that it is the final image of him alive, but i think the youtube link shows him just afterwards.

 

[free spirit]

re what I wrote above, is anyone aware of any pictures or video footage of the police moving Ian prior to the ambulance arriving with the stretcher?

 

[TopCat]

Well given the actions of this Bastard Police Medic, you can see that Ian Tomlinson is hardly likely to have got life saving assistance after that Territorial Support Officer attacked him from behind.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

I think you might be right.

I think so too.

 

[free spirit]

just to put this into perspective, if I as the stewards manager at a festival authorised or instructed my stewards to move an unconcious collapsed person who had obvious breathing difficulties, and a weak pulse, that person then pretty much immediately stopped breathing and their heart stopped, and died... well, I'd fully expect to face either criminal prosecution, or a successful civil claim for compensation for wrongful death based on contributory negligence.

The only defence to this would be that you'd moved the person because they had collapsed in a place where there was a severe danger to that persons life, and/or the lives of the people treating them, and there was no other safe course of action other than to move them. The standard response being to remove the source of danger rather than moving the patient if at all possible, so if someone's collapsed in the entrance way to a marquee, then you'd first of all use stewards / security to close that entrance, and send people round to other entrances as much as possible, and only if this was obviously not working / there weren't the personnel available to make this work, and the band was about to finish etc. would I be justified in moving the patient as carefully as possible to the nearest position of safety.

I've been there and done it, and there is absolutely no excuse for the police to have moved Ian in this situation from the information given by any of the witness statements or photos of the situation. The medics had 4 batton wielding coppers for protection, and the protestors themselves were policing the situation to keep things calm... no excuse at all in my personal and professional opinion.

 

[maximilian ping]

this is incredible

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/09/g20-police-assault-ian-tomlinson-g20

It basically details how the police and the IPCC tried to cover up IT's death by lying their faces off - fucking shameful.

i think the IPCC need to be run out of town

either complain here http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/index/contact-us/complaints_ipcc.htm or maybe cover their offices in paint or something

 

[Fruitloop]

Well given the actions of this Bastard Police Medic, you can see that Ian Tomlinson is hardly likely to have got life saving assistance after that Territorial Support Officer attacked him from behind.

Hippocratic Oath being taken very seriously there I see.

 

[Callie]

I'm not sure that it is fair to suggest that anyone that tried to help Mr Tomlinson after his collapse may have contributed to his death, unless they were specifically trained in that type of first aid. Yes perhaps people should have left well alone if they didn't know what they were doing but in that kind of situation you do anything to help.

 

[Kaka Tim]

just to put this into perspective, if I as the stewards manager at a festival authorised or instructed my stewards to move an unconcious collapsed person who had obvious breathing difficulties, and a weak pulse, that person then pretty much immediately stopped breathing and their heart stopped, and died... well, I'd fully expect to face either criminal prosecution, or a successful civil claim for compensation for wrongful death based on contributory negligence.

The only defence to this would be that you'd moved the person because they had collapsed in a place where there was a severe danger to that persons life, and/or the lives of the people treating them, and there was no other safe course of action other than to move them. The standard response being to remove the source of danger rather than moving the patient if at all possible, so if someone's collapsed in the entrance way to a marquee, then you'd first of all use stewards / security to close that entrance, and send people round to other entrances as much as possible, and only if this was obviously not working / there weren't the personnel available to make this work, and the band was about to finish etc. would I be justified in moving the patient as carefully as possible to the nearest position of safety.

I've been there and done it, and there is absolutely no excuse for the police to have moved Ian in this situation from the information given by any of the witness statements or photos of the situation. The medics had 4 batton wielding coppers for protection, and the protestors themselves were policing the situation to keep things calm... no excuse at all in my personal and professional opinion.

You should contact the guardian - it makes sense of the girl saying he was calm and comfortable as he lost conciousness. It might also explain the police bullshit about 'having to move him because of a hail of missiles'.
More than one cop in the frame for this.

Suprised the we haven;t had a poilce sponsored backlash and smear operation in the media yet - by Im sure they're working on it.

BTW - attack cop who has now come forward has not been suspended. Why is this violent thug allowed to continue walking our streets?

 

[Doctor Carrot]

Unless I'm mistaken it looks like Ian Tomlinson is just caught in the first few seconds of that clip (on the right). Can I just see his right arm and t-shirts ?

Yeah that's definitely him at the start of the video. I think that video should be sent into the media, all footage of him, no matter how small, is important.

 

[shaman75]

re what I wrote above, is anyone aware of any pictures or video footage of the police moving Ian prior to the ambulance arriving with the stretcher?

I've done some digging of reports. Looks like he was dragged, but also put on a stretcher and a tarpaulin.

April 2nd

The Met said the man, thought to be in his 40s, died on Wednesday night after bottles were thrown at him and he collapsed.

Scotland Yard said a member of the public alerted them that a man was unconscious near the Bank of England and officers came under a bombardment of missiles as they tried to drag him to safety – he was still breathing.

http://www.thelondondailynews.com/ipcc-investigate-protest-death-p-2654.html

April 9th

Bystanders helped Mr Tomlinson to his feet and he staggered 40 yards along Cornhill before collapsing outside the Co-operative Bank. His skin was a deathly grey and his eyes were rolling. Lucy Apps, a third-year medical student, said: “I saw him moving along but he was unsteady. He bumped into the edge of a doorway. He didn’t hit it very hard but he stopped and fell over.”

She went to help but then the riot police moved down Cornhill, ordering everyone to move away from the area. “I refused to move and told them I was a medical student and that I saw him collapse,” Ms Apps said. “But they forced me away when I told then I didn’t know him.”

Two police medics in riot gear tried to revive him before putting him on a stretcher and carrying him along Cornhill towards the cordon.

Police later claimed that they had to move Mr Tomlinson because they came under attack from missiles. However, analysis of television footage and photographs shows just one bottle, probably plastic, being thrown in the area.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6062637.ece

one of the protesters, a man in his 20s or 30s, collapsed on the pavement. The guy was totally out of it when I went to take a look at him. Protesters informed the police, and then allowed the police to carry the man back to their lines using what looked like a tarpaulin to carry him away.

http://www.redpepper.org.uk/Death-in-the-City

 

[Kaka Tim]

I'm not sure that it is fair to suggest that anyone that tried to help Mr Tomlinson after his collapse may have contributed to his death, unless they were specifically trained in that type of first aid. Yes perhaps people should have left well alone if they didn't know what they were doing but in that kind of situation you do anything to help.

but moving an uncouncious person is a big no-no - as free spirit has pointed out - unless their their is clear danger to that person by not being moved - i.e. they are in a burning vehicle. They could get their arses seriously sued over this - and people have been in the past.

 

[Corax]

I'm not sure that it is fair to suggest that anyone that tried to help Mr Tomlinson after his collapse may have contributed to his death, unless they were specifically trained in that type of first aid. Yes perhaps people should have left well alone if they didn't know what they were doing but in that kind of situation you do anything to help.

I disagree. Such arrogant, bullish, and unsafe actions are symptomatic of their entire culture.