Fatalities and critical injuries at Asake concert crush at the Brixton Academy

[8ball]

On the odd occasion I go to a concert, I'm usually amongst the last going in, and coming out.

I went to see Floyd at the old Wembley stadium in 1988.

Coming out, the crowd funnels into the exits, the further on you go, the closer the crush of people. I had my arms down, and couldn't get them up again, I'm quite sure if I had died, i would have been carried forward by the crush of people. I'm not a small person, and was at the time a serving soldier, so quite fit. I'm not generally claustrophobic, but that experience terrified me. The thought that if you went down, you would be trampled to death was horrible. I don't think I've ever been so frightened, and felt so helpless in my life. What made it more dreadful was the replay in my head of the comments of a friend who was caught up in the Ibrox disaster in 1971, what he had described was happening to me.

Funny that, how something and nothing can still be crystal clear in your mind thirty odd years later.

1971 Ibrox disaster - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It's A380's swiss cheese model again.
I think most of us will have been in cases where at least a couple of the holes have lined up.

 

[Diamond]

There seems to be quite a bit of wilful misreading of what David Clapson has written, because while some of what he says might be speculative nonsense in itself, he is clearly not trying to blame london Nigerians himself - his whole point is about why that group might be unfairly scapegoated because of stereotypes attributed to them. At least as far as I can see anyway.

Yes, this is how I read it too. Tensions between West African and Caribbean communities are also well known in London, particularly in the schools. Partly to do with class, partly to do with history (the intl slave trade was a European thing but enslavement was largely a local affair).

 

[killer b]

I'm sure there's tensions between west african and caribbean communities in London, but it's not totally clear what relevance they would have to this thread.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

There is a world outside the urban75 bubble. I'm introducing white people to the rude things that different segments of London's black population say about each other. If you don't know any of the local black people that well, you might assume that, for example, West Indians and West Africans agree about everything. They don't. They present a united front when talking to a white audience. But privately they give each other a lot of grief. When they're mean to each other I doubt the white posters here would accuse them of racism. But because I've told you about it, you've got to shoot the messenger, to show how virtuous you are.

Nigerians do have a terrible reputation for scamming and cheating. Some of the ones in Brixton prey on each other, quite shamelessly. Corruption is so endemic in Nigeria that it's part of life, for everyone. It's expected. And in London the black communities who've immigrated from other countries are always moaning about Nigerians. It's not just the scams, it's partly because there are so many of them. So when a Nigerian rapper has thousands of people trying to force their way into a gig, with rumours of counterfeit tickets, there's going to be a fair bit of eye-rolling.

It's a bit sad that so many of the white posters here like to think they know what the black community are thinking. Your accepted information sources are Fleet Street journalists, Twitter and urban. They're 99.999% white.

Just as an experiment, try to get to know a Jamaican and a Nigerian. Get them to trust you enough to explain where they disagree about colonialism.

Strangely, every poster on U75 also lives in the world outside of the U75 'bubble'. I can't recall any of my Nigerian colleagues scamming me or each other.

 

[cesare]

There seems to be quite a bit of wilful misreading of what David Clapson has written, because while some of what he says might be speculative nonsense in itself, he is clearly not trying to blame london Nigerians himself - his whole point is about why that group might be unfairly scapegoated because of stereotypes attributed to them. At least as far as I can see anyway.

I didn't read:

Nigerians do have a terrible reputation for scamming and cheating. Some of the ones in Brixton prey on each other, quite shamelessly. Corruption is so endemic in Nigeria that it's part of life, for everyone. It's expected. And in London the black communities who've immigrated from other countries are always moaning about Nigerians. It's not just the scams, it's partly because there are so many of them. So when a Nigerian rapper has thousands of people trying to force their way into a gig, with rumours of counterfeit tickets, there's going to be a fair bit of eye-rolling.

as a commentary on unfair scapegoating.

 

[thebackrow]

Its not right that I'm a year out. I was asking about "gigs" - and you say they were unaffected until 23rd March - even though people were being warned off funerals by February.

Last gig I went to pre-Covid was 7th March at the Electric Ballroom. There were a literally one or two people in the audience with masks on and it was packed and sweaty.

 

[bimble]

They present a united front when talking to a white audience.

This is such a bizarre statement: Who is this White Audience where does it exist?
People diss Nigerians all day long, in just the same words that you used to do so, white people do it, Jamaicans do it, Ghanaians do it, this is common knowledge so what on earth is your point.
But then again based on past experience of your posts, silly question never mind.

 

[8ball]

People diss Nigerians all day long, in just the same words that you used to do so, white people do it, Jamaicans do it, Ghanaians do it...

This is a London thing, I guess.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

White British scammers will just be called scammers though. Not White British scammers.

 

[8ball]

White British scammers will just be called scammers though. Not White British scammers.

A lot of them get called MPs.

 

[bimble]

This is a London thing, I guess.

nope, I mean maybe Clapson is talking about London but 'those Nigerians they're all untrustworthy' is something i've heard plenty elsewhere too (in jamaica and in ghana, is what i was thinking of, as well as down the road here in stupid rural england).
Anyway its the "They present a united front when talking to a white audience" bit of his post that i found particularly weird what is that where's it coming from.

 

[8ball]

nope, I mean maybe Clapson is talking about London but 'those Nigerians they're all untrustworthy' is something i've heard plenty elsewhere too (in jamaica and in ghana, is what i was thinking of).

Oh, right. I was just talking about in the UK.

 

[maomao]

I've heard it from Nigerians themselves. I once lent a Nigerian colleague two hundred quid (very long time ago, I wouldn't have it to lend these days) and when he came round my flat to pay me back I just went to pocket the money and he told me that I had to count it because he was Nigerian and I would be cheated otherwise (which sounds funny but I suppose in reality he felt the need to point out his honesty because of the stereotype). Still has fuck all to do with the sad events of the other night which it seems were largely the venue's fault.

 

[teuchter]

I didn't read:



as a commentary on unfair scapegoating.

I read it in the context of where that particular discussion started, back at this post, and the replies to it:

Blame the fans at Hillsborough = blame the Nigerians at the Academy

But also in the context of some of the videos/posts popping up on social media, some of which have appeared on this thread, but others haven't. And maybe what you might see depends a bit on where you are, for example those of us who live around Brixton may see a slightly different selection of things to those who don't and are largely following this via guardian articles.

 

[Mr paulee]

Talking to an architect friend of mine regarding this incident and he stated (without looking at building schematics obviously ) a possible solution could be that the entrance could be redesigned and moved around corner into the lane.
Would allow for wider points of egress etc

 

[edcraw]

Alexandra Palace checks tickets at a perimeter fence before getting to the entrance. Maybe something like that could work further down Astoria Walk.

 

[Riklet]

What is the relevance of Nigerians? Theres 250 million odd Nigerians in Nigeria alone, how can we generalise about such a massive country?

Even if some of the audience was Nigerian, most werent. Most were from London, surprise surprise. And most didnt try and ram their way in killing 2 people in the process, but a few did. It's shit the venue has closed as its not their fault IMO.

 

[edcraw]

A crowd can hardly ever be held responsible for these kind of incidents- it’s nearly always down to how the venue manages it. Some of the commentary really smacks of racism.

 

[Supine]

A crowd can hardly ever be held responsible for these kind of incidents- it’s nearly always down to how the venue manages it. Some of the commentary really smacks of racism.

This thread is speculation so far. If it’s true lots of people tried to force their way in then yes, they need to take some blame. It could be poor security or something else.

I’m sure the cops are going through cctv and social media to find out what actually happened.

 

[friedaweed]

There is a world outside the urban75 bubble. I'm introducing white people to the rude things that different segments of London's black population say about each other. If you don't know any of the local black people that well, you might assume that, for example, West Indians and West Africans agree about everything. They don't. They present a united front when talking to a white audience. But privately they give each other a lot of grief. When they're mean to each other I doubt the white posters here would accuse them of racism. But because I've told you about it, you've got to shoot the messenger, to show how virtuous you are.

Nigerians do have a terrible reputation for scamming and cheating. Some of the ones in Brixton prey on each other, quite shamelessly. Corruption is so endemic in Nigeria that it's part of life, for everyone. It's expected. And in London the black communities who've immigrated from other countries are always moaning about Nigerians. It's not just the scams, it's partly because there are so many of them. So when a Nigerian rapper has thousands of people trying to force their way into a gig, with rumours of counterfeit tickets, there's going to be a fair bit of eye-rolling.

It's a bit sad that so many of the white posters here like to think they know what the black community are thinking. Your accepted information sources are Fleet Street journalists, Twitter and urban. They're 99.999% white.

Just as an experiment, try to get to know a Jamaican and a Nigerian. Get them to trust you enough to explain where they disagree about colonialism.

What a crock of shite.

 

[edcraw]

This thread is speculation so far. If it’s true lots of people tried to force their way in then yes, they need to take some blame. It could be poor security or something else.

I’m sure the cops are going through cctv and social media to find out what actually happened.

Even if people tried to force their way in (which seems unlikely and no evidence) it’s still up to the venue to have measures in place to stop that.

Always lots of misinformation in these situations and people should be very wary of jumping to conclusions.

 

[friedaweed]

There seems to be quite a bit of wilful misreading of what David Clapson has written, because while some of what he says might be speculative nonsense in itself, he is clearly not trying to blame london Nigerians himself - his whole point is about why that group might be unfairly scapegoated because of stereotypes attributed to them. At least as far as I can see anyway.

Repeating a stereotype is perpetuating a myth. When the same idiot says he's "educating white folk" he's lost his footing to be taken seriously. You call it wilful misreading, I say it's racist trolling. He's not the messiah, he's a racist cunt. HTH

 

[Tricky Skills]

Here's the full Determination from the Licensing Sub-Committee meeting held yesterday.

 

[nottsgirl]

There is a world outside the urban75 bubble. I'm introducing white people to the rude things that different segments of London's black population say about each other. If you don't know any of the local black people that well, you might assume that, for example, West Indians and West Africans agree about everything. They don't. They present a united front when talking to a white audience. But privately they give each other a lot of grief. When they're mean to each other I doubt the white posters here would accuse them of racism. But because I've told you about it, you've got to shoot the messenger, to show how virtuous you are.

Nigerians do have a terrible reputation for scamming and cheating. Some of the ones in Brixton prey on each other, quite shamelessly. Corruption is so endemic in Nigeria that it's part of life, for everyone. It's expected. And in London the black communities who've immigrated from other countries are always moaning about Nigerians. It's not just the scams, it's partly because there are so many of them. So when a Nigerian rapper has thousands of people trying to force their way into a gig, with rumours of counterfeit tickets, there's going to be a fair bit of eye-rolling.

It's a bit sad that so many of the white posters here like to think they know what the black community are thinking. Your accepted information sources are Fleet Street journalists, Twitter and urban. They're 99.999% white.

Just as an experiment, try to get to know a Jamaican and a Nigerian. Get them to trust you enough to explain where they disagree about colonialism.

Maybe not.

 

[Gramsci]

I read it in the context of where that particular discussion started, back at this post, and the replies to it:



But also in the context of some of the videos/posts popping up on social media, some of which have appeared on this thread, but others haven't. And maybe what you might see depends a bit on where you are, for example those of us who live around Brixton may see a slightly different selection of things to those who don't and are largely following this via guardian articles.

I live in Brixton.

What exactly is the "different selection of things" you are referring to?

 

[Gramsci]

I read it in the context of where that particular discussion started, back at this post, and the replies to it:



But also in the context of some of the videos/posts popping up on social media, some of which have appeared on this thread, but others haven't. And maybe what you might see depends a bit on where you are, for example those of us who live around Brixton may see a slightly different selection of things to those who don't and are largely following this via guardian articles.

As Ive been around Brixton is my local shops today etc I have not heard any comments so far on this.

Its a tragic event. And perhaps local people are treating it as such. What ever their background is.

Apart from that most people in my area are trying get to on with their lives. Which is not easy at the moment with cost of living etc.

The Council are doing a review of license. Hopefully what happened will be clarified with a proper investigation.

I could be wrong but this does not seem to be to me about Nigerians vs Afro Caribbeans.

 

[plurker]

I almost don't want to bring this thread back up, given the tangential argument, but the license suspension has now been extended by three months

Brixton concert crush venue to remain closed for three months - BBC News

The O2 will stay shut for three more months after two people died during an Asake gig in December.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[cuppa tee]

I almost don't want to bring this thread back up, given the tangential argument, but the license suspension has now been extended by three months

Brixton concert crush venue to remain closed for three months - BBC News

The O2 will stay shut for three more months after two people died during an Asake gig in December.

www.bbc.co.uk

.....academy starting to look more like a development opportunity then.

 

[spitfire]

BBC radio news just said all the seriously injured and dead people were working there that night.

This proved to be untrue I think. Apologies.

 

[Winot]

I almost don't want to bring this thread back up, given the tangential argument, but the license suspension has now been extended by three months

Brixton concert crush venue to remain closed for three months - BBC News

The O2 will stay shut for three more months after two people died during an Asake gig in December.

www.bbc.co.uk

Bugger. I saw that Dry Cleaning had shifted to the Roundhouse on 3 March so feared the worst.