Extinction Rebellion

[Mr.Bishie]

General police approach today has been to seize infrastructure and anything that might make living on the streets possible I.e food and shelter. Stealing gazebos and cooking pots.

Seems plod’s execution of that was bang on today. Clear roads tomorrow.

 

[Marty1]

Exactly. China's emissions are shit,but per capita, they are less than ours, becuase they make everything for us (western capitalism)

China is probably overlooked due to them producing cheap goods to the world. Or protestors are just ignorant of China.

 

[sunnysidedown]

Did anyone see Steroid Maximus on the C4 news? hotter summers, more money to be made, his thoughts on global warming put a big smile on his face.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

 

[Pickman's model]

What model should they be working to and why hasn't anyone built it?

One which doesn't fetishise getting nicked as a core aspect of activism, for a start

I think the models have been built in the past but what you have here is not something that's grown up organically but something which has been imposed by rh and his cohorts. If the politics of xr built on or learned from previous movements I think it would be more successful and resilient

 

[lazythursday]

China is probably overlooked due to them producing cheap goods to the world. Or protestors are just ignorant of China.

You just don't get it. We consume those goods. We are just as responsible for those emissions. Arguably more so given our own history of colonialism and industrialisation.

 

[Red Sky]

One which doesn't fetishise getting nicked as a core aspect of activism, for a start

I think the models have been built in the past but what you have here is not something that's grown up organically but something which has been imposed by rh and his cohorts. If the politics of xr built on or learned from previous movements I think it would be more successful and resilient

But why has it's growth dynamic been so successful. Why are movements built on "better" principles so lacklustre?

 

[Gramsci]

General police approach today has been to seize infrastructure and anything that might make living on the streets possible I.e food and shelter. Stealing gazebos and cooking pots.

From what I've seen I agree with this.

Like having a police roadblock on Horseferry road. They were searching vans.

The heavy handed approach this morning on Westminster bridge. They didn't want XR to get their materials on the bridge to build structures.

The Police have looked at XR strategy and seen this as way to undermine two week protest.

 

[A380]

Seems plod’s execution of that was bang on today. Clear roads tomorrow.

No, attrition init, three new sites a day - two cleared and one remaining is seven by the weekend and 14 in two weeks. If XR keep it up the Met will run out of rest days to cover this.

 

[Gramsci]

Was there a concentration of the protest around the Chinese embassy as I understand they are one of the worlds worst polluters?

I think the XR view would be that this country is one of the first to industrialise and pollute the planet. It has a responsibility to work towards de carbonising its economy.

Secondly XR rebellion is done country by country.

Each XR offishoot pressures its own government to do zero carbon economy by 2025.

 

[A380]

China is probably overlooked due to them producing cheap goods to the world. Or protestors are just ignorant of China.

Or have decided the best is the enemy of the good and decided even if they can’t influence China then they can still get off their arses and try to influence policy here.

 

[A380]

XR are going to fail. They've made certain of that with their dilletante approach to protest

So many people pooh-poohed the notion the cops could go in hard against xr last time round. And they've not done anything yet to xr like they did to the '09 climate camp in the city

But if the old bill do get punchy that’s not necessarily a failure for XR, a good way to get their message across would be video, or better yet stills of loveable old folks or photogenic students getting a shoeing. It’s plays much better/ worse than the same Home Office approved tactics being used against black-block types or football risk groups.

 

[Gramsci]

October demos are always full of freshers, and that's not a bad thing. As for the retired folk, I know every journalist is told this is that particular wrinklies first ever protest, but nah, I reckon most of us have been doing it all our adult lives, despite the obvious futility

I came home, big respect to those who are out all night.

I don't agree. XR strong point is that they are media savvy. A journo from BBC would have been pointed in the right direction by XR to get the retired folk on the Today Programme. These of course are the listeners of the Today Programme.

Its part of the "Beyond Politics" idea. Climate change is such an global emergency that "politics" are irrelevant.

XR are pushing a political programme. from what I've seen today the leadership have the followers instructed in the same programme as before.

Making the present government untenable. Forcing them to negotiate with XR leadership. Getting them to pass law for zero carbon economy by 2025.

As democracy , in Hallam XR view doesn't work, replace democratically elected parliament with a "Peoples Assembly" drawn by lot like jury service.

This People's Assembly will be given choices over how to get to zero carbon by 2025 but not allowed to question this. What XR still say today is "deliberative".

As much as I think XR are doing a lot of good I don't feel I should have to support all of it.

On my patch in London, one of the most deprived in the country, I've been part of camapign to save local adventure playground.

I'm afraid to say some of the concerns of XR simply don't resonate with a working class community who have issues of gang violence and drastic cuts to youth services on their plate.

 

[Gramsci]

I really wish XR would drop "Beyond Politics" from their banners.

I keep thinking of Chuka and Change UK when I see it now.

 

[Red Sky]

As much as I think XR are doing a lot of good I don't feel I should have to support all of it.

On my patch in London, one of the most deprived in the country, I've been part of camapign to save local adventure playground.

I'm afraid to say some of the concerns of XR simply don't resonate with a working class community who have issues of gang violence and drastic cuts to youth services on their plate.

Bit of a non sequitur?

 

[Pickman's model]

But why has it's growth dynamic been so successful. Why are movements built on "better" principles so lacklustre?

I'm washing up atm but will get back to you in the morning with a full answer

 

[Pickman's model]

I really wish XR would drop "Beyond Politics" from their banners.

I keep thinking of Chuka and Change UK chucking when I see it now.

C4U

 

[Pickman's model]

But if the old bill do get punchy that’s not necessarily a failure for XR, a good way to get their message across would be video, or better yet stills of loveable old folks or photogenic students getting a shoeing. It’s plays much better/ worse than the same Home Office approved tactics being used against black-block types or football risk groups.

Oh it's not just that, it's loads of things like their dominant demographic being mc, like their position toward the cops (linked to who has turned out)... They've been feted for a season but I think they'll end up victims of their own success, scrapping over money, splitting over militancy, it's notable rh has studied protest methods but not what comes next, how a struggle develops

 

[smokedout]

I came back home over Westminster bridge. Small group in the bridge. The van I posted up earlier was surrounded by police.

The structure they were building earlier had gone.

Police heavy handed tactics earlier in the day had worked.

This morning the police just got stuck in chucking people away from vans with XR equipment. They didn't arrest them just manhandled them out the way.

Response of XR was to sit in the road.

Police tactics worked. They have learnt from last time.

I just got back from wandering round the sites. Looks like Lambeth Bridge is cleared, and the smallish grouping on Millbank was surrounded withhout much infrastructure so I imagine that will be gone by morning. Both sites at the top of Parliament Square looked fairly solid, as does Whitehall, St Jame's Park is full of tents and Trafalgar Square is still blocked with a sound system playing. It was all very nice if a bit middle class and sober and boring.

But I saw the opposite from police. Apart from on Millbank, it was like they didn't care. Gazebos and stuff were going up in Trafalgar Square and they were just standing and watching. There were only a handful of uniforms round St Jame's Park and the Mall and no real sign of any police activity, no sirens in the background, lines of vans etc. It was weird, like they'd surrendered. Maybe they were taking a break and are planning a blood bath in the early hours, but none of the sites looked that much of a challenge for them to move, the big structures and vehicles were all loosely surrounded although there were still some lock ons, the roads were all closed and the coppers who were there were standing around eating McDs and chatting amongst themselves. There certainly didn't seem like there was the will, numbers or intent to shut the thing down, although I guess things could look very different come the morning.

 

[A380]

Oh it's not just that, it's loads of things like their dominant demographic being mc, like their position toward the cops (linked to who has turned out)... They've been feted for a season but I think they'll end up victims of their own success, scrapping over money, splitting over militancy, it's notable rh has studied protest methods but not what comes next, how a struggle develops

Possibly. But who in the modern west has experience of successfully managing the next stage. Experience that is, not theory of which there is shed loads, although often contradictory. I’m not sure I can think of one ( answers on here please?) and I’m not sure you can extrapolate from other parts of the world of pre First World War stuff.

 

[Gramsci]

I just got back from wandering round the sites. Looks like Lambeth Bridge is cleared, and the smallish grouping on Millbank was surrounded withhout much infrastructure so I imagine that will be gone by morning. Both sites at the top of Parliament Square looked fairly solid, as does Whitehall, St Jame's Park is full of tents and Trafalgar Square is still blocked with a sound system playing. It was all very nice if a bit middle class and sober and boring.

But I saw the opposite from police. Apart from on Millbank, it was like they didn't care. Gazebos and stuff were going up in Trafalgar Square and they were just standing and watching. There were only a handful of uniforms round St Jame's Park and the Mall and no real sign of any police activity, no sirens in the background, lines of vans etc. It was weird, like they'd surrendered. Maybe they were taking a break and are planning a blood bath in the early hours, but none of the sites looked that much of a challenge for them to move, the big structures and vehicles were all loosely surrounded although there were still some lock ons, the roads were all closed and the coppers who were there were standing around eating McDs and chatting amongst themselves. There certainly didn't seem like there was the will, numbers or intent to shut the thing down, although I guess things could look very different come the morning.

Agree about Millbank. The cops don't like something that near Parliament. I saw discussions with Cops going on as people tried to put tents on Millbank. Cops ignored tents in Marsham Street where the Home Office is.

On the Mall the tents aren't in the way of the changing of the guard. They are near Trafalgar Square end. As cops close Mall most days for a few hours for changing of the guard they probably aren't bothered about the Mall. XR doing them a favour in closing it. Closing it for a few hours to change the guard is always a headache for PC Plod.

I agree Trafalgar Square the cops gave up. It was small in the morning. By afternoon protestors had closed a lot of it off.

I think police cuts mean they don't have enough cops to police protests like this.

Maybe why they are happy with all the Welsh outside Priti Patel office in Marsham Street.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

BBC reporting 280 arrests yesterday. I do reckon plod’s objective today will be to clear main roads/bridges.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

And Johnson comes out with
“uncooperative crusties in hemp smelling bivouacs”.

 

[Pickman's model]

Possibly. But who in the modern west has experience of successfully managing the next stage. Experience that is, not theory of which there is shed loads, although often contradictory. I’m not sure I can think of one ( answers on here please?) and I’m not sure you can extrapolate from other parts of the world of pre First World War stuff.

Not sure he's successfully managed this bit yet

 

[cupid_stunt]

Blimey, impressive list below.

But as of 6.30am today these roads were closed or partially blocked.

• The Mall
• Whitehall
• Parliament Street
• Parliament Square
• Broad Sanctuary
• Victoria Street
• Abingdon Street
• Millbank
• Horse Guards Road
• Westminster Bridge
• Horseferry Road
• Great Peter Street
• The Strand
• Northumberland Avenue
• Cockspur Street
• Pall Mall East
• All roads around Trafalgar Square

Extinction Rebellion: Google Maps shows central London road closures | Metro News

 

[cupid_stunt]

The link below has a round-up of some of the protests from across the globe, together with photos from various countries.

Extinction Rebellion have promised to shut down more than 60 international cities with two weeks of global climate change protests.

The environmentalist movement, which uses civil disobedience to try and compel governments to act, says more than 850 worldwide events are planned across the next fortnight.

Cities such as London, Sydney, New York, Mumbai, Buenos Aires and Cape Town are all facing major disruptions as protests kicked off on the weekend.

Worldwide Extinction Rebellion protests shut down Madrid to Sydney | Metro News

 

[Libertad]

And Johnson comes out with
“uncooperative crusties in hemp smelling bivouacs”.

Stinky Rebellion.

 

[chilango]

Johnson's comments are lazy and foolish.

I dunno about in London, but here XR appears to be full of "respectable middle-aged, middle-class" types.

Which is an issue.

But it makes Johnson look completely out of touch.

 

[Red Sky]

And Johnson comes out with
“uncooperative crusties in hemp smelling bivouacs”.

Pure playing to his gallery.

 

[TopCat]

But why has it's growth dynamic been so successful. Why are movements built on "better" principles so lacklustre?

They have not just appeared. This was built up over decades. From before Newbury to RTS, onto Climate Camps, Green Gatherings, Occupy etc.