Extinction Rebellion

[littlebabyjesus]

That was always unachievable and I've no idea why they chose it. It looks plain daft now several years later in 2023.

But next zero by 2050 misses the point anyway. There has to be year on year very significant cuts in emissions to meet that target. You can't leave it all to the 2040s or we blow the carbon budget. The IPCC targets are also a compromise between all the countries involved - they aren't a perfect reflection of the scientific consensus by any means.

Yes, the creation of a target so far into the future, when many of the old people making the agreement will be dead has the danger of becoming an exercise in kicking the can down the road. We're still not even cutting overall emissions yet, let alone reducing them. As you say, they need to come down every year as much as possible starting right now. Create 5- or 10-year interim targets and set out concrete plans for how to achieve them. Starting with massive investment - commitment of a significant %age of GDP to doing this, starting now. That would be meaningful.

 

[Pickman's model]

Make a big gantt chart to measure progress against

 

[PTK]

Yes, the creation of a target so far into the future, when many of the old people making the agreement will be dead has the danger of becoming an exercise in kicking the can down the road. We're still not even cutting overall emissions yet, let alone reducing them. As you say, they need to come down every year as much as possible starting right now. Create 5- or 10-year interim targets and set out concrete plans for how to achieve them. Starting with massive investment - commitment of a significant %age of GDP to doing this, starting now. That would be meaningful.

"Carbon Brief’s analysis, based on preliminary government energy data, shows UK emissions fell by 14m tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (MtCO2e) in 2022. Emissions will need to fall by a similar amount every year – for the next three decades – to reach net-zero by 2050."

Analysis: UK emissions fall 3.4% in 2022 as coal use drops to lowest level since 1757 - Carbon Brief

The UK’s greenhouse gas emissions fell by 3.4% in 2022, according to new Carbon Brief analysis, ending a post-Covid rebound.

www.carbonbrief.org

 

[littlebabyjesus]

"Carbon Brief’s analysis, based on preliminary government energy data, shows UK emissions fell by 14m tonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (MtCO2e) in 2022. Emissions will need to fall by a similar amount every year – for the next three decades – to reach net-zero by 2050."

Analysis: UK emissions fall 3.4% in 2022 as coal use drops to lowest level since 1757 - Carbon Brief

The UK’s greenhouse gas emissions fell by 3.4% in 2022, according to new Carbon Brief analysis, ending a post-Covid rebound.

www.carbonbrief.org

UK emissions calculations need to factor in all the goods we buy from places like China, India, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. Our real emissions are not just what is produced within the UK's borders.

Worldwide, fossil fuel use is not coming down. It has, perhaps, just about reached a plateau. Perhaps. Hard to tell as there was a slight dip due to covid and it's risen again after that.

 

[PTK]

UK emissions calculations need to factor in all the goods we buy from places like China, India, Bangladesh, Cambodia, Vietnam, etc. Our real emissions are not just what is produced within the UK's borders.

Worldwide, fossil fuel use is not coming down. It has, perhaps, just about reached a plateau. Perhaps. Hard to tell as there was a slight dip due to covid and it's risen again after that.

"Total net anthropogenic GHG emissions6 have continued to rise during the period 2010–2019, as have cumulative net CO2 emissions since 1850. Average annual GHG emissions during 2010–2019 were higher than in any previous decade, but the rate of growth between 2010 and 2019 was lower than that between 2000 and 2009. (high confidence) (Figure SPM.1) {Figure 2.2, Figure 2.5, Table 2.1, 2.2,
Figure TS.2}"
according to the IPCC

So, greenhouse gas emissions produced within the UK are falling, but rising in the world as a whole.
How do we here in the UK ensure that the products we buy from China, etc, are produced without emitting greenhouse gases? That is a question that we need to address.

 

[lazythursday]

"Total net anthropogenic GHG emissions6 have continued to rise during the period 2010–2019, as have cumulative net CO2 emissions since 1850. Average annual GHG emissions during 2010–2019 were higher than in any previous decade, but the rate of growth between 2010 and 2019 was lower than that between 2000 and 2009. (high confidence) (Figure SPM.1) {Figure 2.2, Figure 2.5, Table 2.1, 2.2,
Figure TS.2}"
according to the IPCC

So, greenhouse gas emissions produced within the UK are falling, but rising in the world as a whole.
How do we here in the UK ensure that the products we buy from China, etc, are produced without emitting greenhouse gases? That is a question that we need to address.

We ensure that by helping to create rigorous international agreements, and by mechanisms like carbon border taxes. And perhaps by reducing our demand for some types of products.

It is worth recognising that this country has been a leader in cutting emissions. But if you read that Carbon Brief piece in full, you realise that this year's fall just cancels out a large rise last year, and that this year's fall didn't relate to any government action. We have done a lot of the easy stuff. The transport system - a huge chunk of remaining emissions - has not seen any emissions reduction since we started this whole process, for instance (except for COVID, and it bounced back afterwards).

Plus climate change is just the most urgent subset of a larger environmental crisis.

 

[platinumsage]

Nearly 30 years ago I was shelving economics books about China the next superpower and all manner of titles about sustainable development. The one is coming to pass and the other, well they're probably past their use-by

What books are you shelving now?

 

[Pickman's model]

What books are you shelving now?

Only my own

 

[GarveyLives]

They took chisels to HSBC windows. I'm not sure what the problem is here.

... nor was the jury? An interesting verdict here:

Jury finds women who broke HSBC windows ‘not guilty’

 

[Dystopiary]

Good!

 

[ska invita]

Just got an email from XR, title:

"Judi Dench and Emma Thompson want you to mobilise"

​

 

[Rob Ray]

Not to continue the debate over the efficacy of different types of direct action or anything, but while I did expect XR abandoning disruptive tactics to convert them into just another NGO lobby outfit at some point I didn't expect it to be quite so quick. Tbh I'm not sure what the difference between them and Greenpeace would be at this stage.

 

[ska invita]

Not to continue the debate over the efficacy of different types of direct action or anything, but while I did expect XR abandoning disruptive tactics to convert them into just another NGO lobby outfit at some point I didn't expect it to be quite so quick. Tbh I'm not sure what the difference between them and Greenpeace would be at this stage.

Interesting.... Similar journey ?? Is Roger Hollam no longer involved?

 

[Rob Ray]

They booted Hallam in 2019, JSO was his replacement project. I don't know a lot about their internal mechanics but they announced they'd be stepping back from the more disruptive forms of direct action last year, which has been followed by a loss of public exposure and now, apparently, a move into celebrity email spam. A quick skim of their latest news seems to suggest they're consdering a move back to doing stuff again though.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Not to continue the debate over the efficacy of different types of direct action or anything, but while I did expect XR abandoning disruptive tactics to convert them into just another NGO lobby outfit at some point I didn't expect it to be quite so quick. Tbh I'm not sure what the difference between them and Greenpeace would be at this stage.

I did wonder why they went quiet. Tbh some of their actions like the tube stopping one was odd to say the least…

 

[ska invita]

There was a "restore nature now" march today in central london, my friend was on it and watched it go past from start to finish - 200,000 people he reckons (not prone to over exaggerate) - quite possibly the biggest biodiversity march in British history he says. Not insignificant I think. He said it was made up of myriad groups, no one dominant. Left pretty much absent apart from a few small groups.
XR called it.... Im not sure this is quite the same as Greenpeace tbh....

Zero press coverage though, as if that makes much difference....
Now what?

ETA: found a tweet with some video

 

[kenny g]

I came across it entirely by accident as went to West End Live in Trafalgar Square. It was massive with loads of local nature groups marching along. As a non participant it wasn't entirely clear what it was about apart people from across the UK coming into London to express their appreciation of whichever form of nature takes their fancy. Probably more worthwhile than spending 3hrs watching acts from various musicals and surprised I didn't even know it was going to happen.

 

[Bobby Notches]

Was Chris Packham's idea/call to action, though I think XR did a lot of the heavy lifting in terms of organisation, and they appeared to be doing all the stewarding. I heard 80,000ish (apparently according to the police) which I can well believe from being there, so a good turn-out and over 350 environmental organisations participating.

One thing that was interesting about it was that it was the first time the big establishment organisations like RSPB and National Trust have participated in something alongside more direct action organisations like hunt sabs, XR and the like. They've always been shy of being seen alongside them.

It was canny, lovely atmosphere, clear message, and great numbers. Was amusing seeing Feargal Sharkey go absolutely off it in the speeches after, I thought he was about to lead us all in storming Parliament and occupying the place.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

There was a "restore nature now" march today in central london, my friend was on it and watched it go past from start to finish - 200,000 people he reckons (not prone to over exaggerate) - quite possibly the biggest biodiversity march in British history he says. Not insignificant I think. He said it was made up of myriad groups, no one dominant. Left pretty much absent apart from a few small groups.
XR called it.... Im not sure this is quite the same as Greenpeace tbh....

Zero press coverage though, as if that makes much difference....
Now what?

ETA: found a tweet with some video

I saw this on sky news so it did get covered.

 

[ska invita]

I saw this on sky news so it did get covered.

yeah barely. remember countryside alliance march? that got covered.... same size too

 

[Kid_Eternity]

yeah barely. remember countryside alliance march? that got covered.... same size too

That was news, this really isn’t massively newsworthy. Something too many don’t get…