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Extinction Rebellion

urbanspaceman said:
I liked this article:

www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/07/the-madness-of-extinction-rebellion/

"Let us no longer beat around the bush about these people. This is an upper-middle-class death cult.This is a millenarian movement that might speak of science, but which is driven by sheer irrationalism. By fear, moral exhaustion and misanthropy. This is the deflated, self-loathing bourgeoisie coming together to project their own psycho-social hang-ups on to society at large."

It seems to me that ER's message appeals to the God-shaped hole that many people have in their brains. The same comfort of group identity, the same pleasure in criticising unbelievers, the same slightly kinky hunger for the Apocalypse. ER's hysteria could well turn the general public off the whole project - after all if things are that bad ("18 months to save the planet", Jul 2019), then one quite rational response is a fatalistic shrug.

There is a more attractive and rational narrative, but it's not got that thrilling end-times vibe:

1) Climate Change is a real, albeit slow, process
2) plenty of partial solutions exist (reforestation/rewilding, solar, wind, battery land management, new low-C processes for steel and concrete, electric vehicles, energy efficiency, green/white/solar roofs, agro-voltaics, new small Thorium reactors) which, as a holistic package, can address the problem
3) there need not be economic costs, in fact more jobs might be created. But we do need to abolish fossil fuel subsidies.
4) worst case, there do exist geoengineering fixes (atmospheric sulphur seeding, orbital mirrors, carbon burial, ocean fertilisation) but they are best kept in reserve
5) the UK is a pioneer in decarbonisation: carbon emissions are down to levels last seen in the 1880s, coal is pretty much finished in electricity generation, wind power continues to be rapidly built out

I'm optimistic - in the past year or two, it seems that governments are beginning to take action: www.climatechangenews.com/2019/09/23/russia-formally-joins-paris-climate-agreement/

Russia!
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Brendan O'Neill talking about middle class cults is it
 
Been impressed so far. They have managed to surround a lot of the area of central government.

The didn't get Lambeth bridge. I did chat to an XR. They did get the roundabout north of Lambeth bridge. Which causes more disruption. Told them its a good site. That roundabout camp blocks the bridge and north south traffic along the embankment.
It also links them to the Welsh lot in Marsham street.

The Trafalgar Square protest looks to me like they are digging in. Building some kind of scaffold pole structure.

Police have been telling people to take structures/ tents down. They do and then re erect them nearby.

Was told there was some shoving and pushing with police this morning near Lambeth bridge. Numbers turning up mean police couldn't deal with it.

Numbers of people and non violence look to be working again.

Surprised not more police out this morning on all the bridges.
 
Good on 'em.

I am baffled at those who feel that there is no climate issue; every other day there are worst ever wildfires, Greenland melting faster than ever, hottest ever months, coldest ever time, largest ever storm etc. Are people just blind to what's happening?

Most towns have an XR contingent, if as a lefty, working class, BAME, whatever you don't feel these people are you, either join 'em and change the make up of it, or start your own thing. Whilst XR's message is of imminent climate collapse, even if they are being too dramatic, it is blatantly fucking obvious that things are going to have to change radically or we're gonna be in deep shit.

I would join them, but it's raining and I'm off to Canada for the weekend on Friday :facepalm::oops:
 
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The general tactic to have more and smaller sites seems to be the right one. It takes a lot of cops to remove people and it is harder to get them together across multiple places, particularly if folk are actually locked on, which means specialist teams are necessary. Meanwhile other people can move around.

Cops I saw were doing the usual thing of being friendly most of the time and then going down super hard on someone for no apparent reason - surrounding someone who did a dance about the Amazon on Whitehall for instance and going through his pockets. This is meant to be psychologically jarring but it doesn't work once you've seen it once, and doesn't really achieve anything in itself. It may just be reflex.
 
Pity it's pissing it down and I don't have a decent rain coat. To be honest that probably excludes people more than anything else.
 
Good for them. Made me happy to see so many people, including young people taking action. They were country dancing in Victoria Street to keep warm.

Good tactics too, certainly better that selling papers or a march. Buggers up the city in terms of disruption. Will take up almost as many police hours over the event as proper rioting and jams the courts up whilst keeping a fair percentage of middle England- who will have to vote for and pick up the bills for the decarbonisation agenda.

Top stuff in my book.

But I realise ‘proper protest’ is six people selling shit newspapers outside an event of 30 people who hold very similar, but not quite identical views to the six. And yes I know - the only real cause is international communism/ socialism/ anarchism ( pick one) delivered through a revolutionary carde. But We HAVEN'T GOT TIME to wait any more.

576052E7-91A6-413E-A928-02D2DED2A44C.jpeg B526F18C-74F7-4C03-BA69-53C3F9C82D6E.jpeg 4DBEE4E4-328F-41ED-806E-6EF238D60CFD.jpeg
 
I came back home over Westminster bridge. Small group in the bridge. The van I posted up earlier was surrounded by police.

The structure they were building earlier had gone.

Police heavy handed tactics earlier in the day had worked.

This morning the police just got stuck in chucking people away from vans with XR equipment. They didn't arrest them just manhandled them out the way.

Response of XR was to sit in the road.

Police tactics worked. They have learnt from last time.

I think XR objectives were Lambeth bridge, Waterloo bridge and Parliament square.

XR have half succeeded.

I worry that police are learning from XR tactics and its going to get increasingly difficult to be completely non violent.

What I saw on Westminster bridge was one XR guy forcibly pushing himself through police to unload the van . It got confrontational. He did the right thing but was the only one.

I did chat to few XR people later on. Showed them my photos of Westminster bridge.

Stick response was Police have a job to do. They have to feed their families. You can't blame them.

XR train their members to think this.

I really like the XR members on the ground but have doubts about long term strategy of complete non violence.

I was told that early on near Lambeth bridge pushing and shoving went on before police backed off.

So its not as totally non violent as first time.
 
A380 said:
But I realise ‘proper protest’ is six people selling shit newspapers outside an event of 30 people who hold very similar, but not quite identical views to the six.
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I think it's also fairly silly to expect extinction rebellion not to be middle class. It's an abstract and intellectual cause driven through scientific modelling. It would make no sense for them to start campaigning about benefit sanctions. The flipside being that those in direct financial hardship are less likely to want to be involved.
 
The age groups I saw were older people and young people. So retired or students.

I was listening to radio four this morning and they were interviewing people from Totnes who were going. ( South West is where I came from originally). They were all very nice middle class retired people. Who felt they needed to protest for the first time in their lives to save their grandchildrens future.

They emphasised that they had lived law abiding respectable lives up to now.

Fair play to them.

But can't help thinking South West is full of these respectable retired people.

It's like the banner I saw today "beyond politics".

Its like a respectable middle class rebellion.

I like XR but think Idaho has a point.
 
lazythursday said:
I am on a course at the moment that includes lots of info about the climate crisis. Fuck, the figures are scary. The amount of change that needs to happen to keep within 1.5 degrees is absolutely colossal and needs to start right now. If XR fails we really are fucked.
Click to expand...
XR are going to fail. They've made certain of that with their dilletante approach to protest

So many people pooh-poohed the notion the cops could go in hard against xr last time round. And they've not done anything yet to xr like they did to the '09 climate camp in the city
 
Marty1 said:
Watched some of the live stream earlier and seemed to have a carnival atmosphere at times.
Click to expand...

Yes it is.

My photos don't get this across today. Today they have been trying to get established so its been fraught.

One of the good things about XR is that they think protest should be about joy.

This imo many on left don't consider important.

It is . Protest should be joyful. Joy is going against our present system.

On this I think XR should get some credit.
 
Gramsci said:
Yes it is.

My photos don't get this across today. Today they have been trying to get established so its been fraught.

One of the good things about XR is that they think protest should be about joy.

This imo many on left don't consider important.

It is . Protest should be joyful. Joy is going against our present system.

On this I think XR should get some credit.
Click to expand...

Was there a concentration of the protest around the Chinese embassy as I understand they are one of the worlds worst polluters?
 
Pickman's model said:
XR are going to fail. They've made certain of that with their dilletante approach to protest

So many people pooh-poohed the notion the cops could go in hard against xr last time round. And they've not done anything yet to xr like they did to the '09 climate camp in the city
Click to expand...
When they do, perhaps it will get a lot more attention this time round. Perhaps it will take a load of nice middle class people's faces being smashed in. I'm ambivalent on XRs tactics but I'm glad that at least something is building.
 
Gramsci said:
The age groups I saw were older people and young people. So retired or students.
Click to expand...
October demos are always full of freshers, and that's not a bad thing. As for the retired folk, I know every journalist is told this is that particular wrinklies first ever protest, but nah, I reckon most of us have been doing it all our adult lives, despite the obvious futility :)

I came home, big respect to those who are out all night.
 
Pickman's model said:
XR are going to fail. They've made certain of that with their dilletante approach to protest

So many people pooh-poohed the notion the cops could go in hard against xr last time round. And they've not done anything yet to xr like they did to the '09 climate camp in the city
Click to expand...


What model should they be working to and why hasn't anyone built it?
 
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