Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
So it's not a deliberate ploy by the oil and gas industry but a natural consequence of BBC 'impartiality'. I wish you could keep your story straight from one post to the next.
Extinction Rebellion
- Thread starter Jeremiah18.17
- Start date
I think you’re being deliberately obtuse and unsure why
maomao
普費斯
Criticise who you fucking like. Would just be nice if you criticised ER on the ER thread and LP on one of the many LP threads.
YouSir
Retired from Urban
Why does this matter?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Because we're told different things by edcraw. Is the bit on the bbc part of a deliberate campaign by the oil and gas industry or is it the BBC's 'impartiality' policy?
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
This has never happened before. HonestI think you’re being deliberately obtuse and unsure why
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think you're all over the shop and don't know whyI think you’re being deliberately obtuse and unsure why
YouSir
Retired from Urban
I struggle to see why what edcraw has to say matters tbh, but whatever works for you.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
We're on the same page
Fuck me - seems like you’re just being a twat for the sake of it. Have you got any views yourself?
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FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Do I have to post a picture of Piers Corbyn now 
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
On XR being extremist. I didn't listen to Any Questions.
XR are Imo pretty well all over the place politically.
Strength of XR is that it can appeal to wide range of people. Due to this. The Beyond Politics mantra I keep getting from them. On other hand they will also say Capitalism is the problem depending on the audience.
Weakness is that when one looks at it closely one can have reservations. As Count Cuckula has.
At one moment its extremist. Wanting to use non violent direct action to bring government of the country to a halt and force it to bring in Peoples Assembly. As normal democratic politics will never deal with climate change. That is extremist. Not a criticism. Its what early XR say.
Another part is as in Lambeth having some talks with local Labour Councils about setting up Peoples Assemblies on local basis. My Council Lambeth has done this. Not that this politically wrong thing to do.
What I'm saying is that XR come across as radical anti authority at one moment. Then try to work with sympathetic sections of the ruling order when they can.
TBF I don't have a lot of problem with this.
As long as people can still critique particular aspects of what they are doing.
As in Lambeth where XR appear to have got together with a particular group who are anti vaxxers. Only teuchter took up my post on this.
Looking at the group they have got involved with and I'm concerned. It's anti vax stuff isn't just an aberration. It's how this group see anti racism. Which Imo is concerning.
Rather than fixating on Labour Party might be idea to look at pros and cons of what XR are doing.
Some of it is very effective. If hit and miss. Why to answer Count Cuckula question about the structures its Imo worth a go even if it doesn't work every time. It worked to stop news printing sites previously. I'm also not going to photograph people sticking themselves on the line for arrest and criticise individuals I photograph.
XR are Imo pretty well all over the place politically.
Strength of XR is that it can appeal to wide range of people. Due to this. The Beyond Politics mantra I keep getting from them. On other hand they will also say Capitalism is the problem depending on the audience.
Weakness is that when one looks at it closely one can have reservations. As Count Cuckula has.
At one moment its extremist. Wanting to use non violent direct action to bring government of the country to a halt and force it to bring in Peoples Assembly. As normal democratic politics will never deal with climate change. That is extremist. Not a criticism. Its what early XR say.
Another part is as in Lambeth having some talks with local Labour Councils about setting up Peoples Assemblies on local basis. My Council Lambeth has done this. Not that this politically wrong thing to do.
What I'm saying is that XR come across as radical anti authority at one moment. Then try to work with sympathetic sections of the ruling order when they can.
TBF I don't have a lot of problem with this.
As long as people can still critique particular aspects of what they are doing.
As in Lambeth where XR appear to have got together with a particular group who are anti vaxxers. Only teuchter took up my post on this.
Looking at the group they have got involved with and I'm concerned. It's anti vax stuff isn't just an aberration. It's how this group see anti racism. Which Imo is concerning.
Rather than fixating on Labour Party might be idea to look at pros and cons of what XR are doing.
Some of it is very effective. If hit and miss. Why to answer Count Cuckula question about the structures its Imo worth a go even if it doesn't work every time. It worked to stop news printing sites previously. I'm also not going to photograph people sticking themselves on the line for arrest and criticise individuals I photograph.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Black Intellectuals, Vaccines & Stopping the Maangamizi: A Pan-Afrikan Reparatory Justice Critical Examination
“You must not abandon discussion out of tact . . . There should be noconcession where there is a question of establishing a scientific truth . . .Remember we are focused on a quest for truth and no…stopthemaangamizi.com
I looked up the reparations group who took part in XR rally. Bit concerned about this page on their website. Very long winded. But whilst saying not totally against Vaccine they criticise Kehinde for encouraging Black people to have Vaccine.
From what I can make of their statement they are in effect anti Vaccine at this time.
If anyone else can read it to see if I'm wrong.
They are a dodgy as fuck group, the anti-vax stuff and more, XR should not be giving them any space for talking.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, yes I do. And what's more I can expound them without veering all over the place as you do. Maybe I am being a twat for the sake of it. Much better than you, whose twattery is surely not by choice.
I heard a little bit of that prog on radio 4. The bit I heard I heard included a panellist saying something like "well I guess I have a different definition of extremist than some of you, because when I think of extremists I tend to think of people like the ones who bombed Kabul Airport last week, for example".
I agree. I think the idea that XR are extreme is preposterous.
The effects of climate change are extreme. XR are not at all. Sadly.
I agree. I think the idea that XR are extreme is preposterous.
The effects of climate change are extreme. XR are not at all. Sadly.
Please do?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
There's always been stuff like that about all sorts of groups in the media, I don't think it's anything to worry about really. On some level I think it's a good sign as it shows the group is in the popular consciousness and maybe even has some of the established order worried.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The definition of extremist has basically reduced to 'people the government doesn't like. With climate change xr are too moderate with their protest formulaic and frankly safe. Blocking parts of London doesn't threaten anything more than inconvenience and the repertoire xr use won't thrust climate change up the political agenda as it needs to be. The recent report on climate change which highlighted how fucked things are now dropped off the media agenda really quickly and the current rebellion hasn't mustered the column inches and media attention of previous waves of protest.
Relying on the media to spread a political message or on the police and courts to help you achieve your policy aims seems really foolish: and I have no confidence that xr will raise their game. Their protests seem a useful safety valve to relieve pressure which might be targeted rather better.
So yeh I agree with you that xr aren't extreme, they're really very moderate
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I guess you could split whether someone is extreme into looking at their actions and their ideas separately (no idea if the R4 program mentioned did this). With XR they're really not with their activity as people have said, but I would say they arguably are extreme (or radical?) with some of what they're demanding.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I honestly don't know how serious they are with their demands: and it's by no means clear to me that they're left wing.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
No, they do say they're neither, although the reality among people involved is more complex I'd have thought.
Their demand of net zero by 2025 is extreme I would say though.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
"Is group X extremist?" is a great example of the sort of timewasting nonsense that I'd expect to see/hear on the BBC to be honest. All it ends up as is "what does extremist mean?" Why is anyone even asking this question without knowing the answer to that? (to fill airtime)
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Me and Martin. Twice now. Are you pals?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yeh I've seen that. There seems a lingering view among a lot of people that they're in some way socialist: their positioning themselves as they do does imo make them suspect as it opens the door for very dubious (ie RW) groups and individuals to achieve a hearing and influence. For me the choice ahead is anarchism/socialism or barbarism, yet they're trying to stick on the fence
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not sure Martin has many pals in the acg
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Bit weird to post up one of Martin’s videos and expect everyone to agree with it instantly without further comment.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I wouldn't expect people to agree with Martin right off anyway.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Not listened to this yet, so no idea on how good (or not) it is, but it discusses the book that's been mentioned on this thread, and possible 'what next' steps for the climate struggles.
blogs.taz.de
E2A: Listened to half of this last night and there's some interesting things talked about, especially the role of workers and unions in maybe being reactionary towards any climate change stuff if it impacts their industries/jobs (big subject worthy of some sensible discussion I think). Both speakers are quite annoying though!
Blow up pipelines? Tadzio Müller and Andreas Malm on what next for the climate movement
Two of the leading thinkers of the radical climate movement discuss climate disaster, fossil capitalism and change.
blogs.taz.de
E2A: Listened to half of this last night and there's some interesting things talked about, especially the role of workers and unions in maybe being reactionary towards any climate change stuff if it impacts their industries/jobs (big subject worthy of some sensible discussion I think). Both speakers are quite annoying though!
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Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
They make a big thing of spelling Africa as Afrika. Because imperialists changed the spelling. That may seem trivial, but it's not really. It shows that their history and analysis are not to be trusted, even if they are sometimes on the ball. Their anti vax stuff also seems to rely on the 'evidence' of some bloke in Zambia who no-one else has ever heard of. Not very rigorous thinking.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Pickman's model still hasn't expounded.
Seems to me that if martin-of-youtube is not Count Cuckula , then he is probably some other urban75 user who is always complaining about everyone else doing things wrong, and failing to expound.
I don't want to point any fingers but I've got my suspicions who he could be.
Seems to me that if martin-of-youtube is not Count Cuckula , then he is probably some other urban75 user who is always complaining about everyone else doing things wrong, and failing to expound.
I don't want to point any fingers but I've got my suspicions who he could be.
