skyscraper101
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I'd put it at somewhere between 25-45% depending on day of the week. Casual observation though.
Extinction Rebellion
- Thread starter Jeremiah18.17
- Start date
I'd put it at somewhere between 25-45% depending on day of the week. Casual observation though.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Extinction Rebellion need to do much more of this sort of thing:
Climate change activists target City of London's Guildhall
Climate change activists climbed the outside of the headquarters of the City of London's government on Sunday as they began two weeks of protests focused on the capital's financial district.www.reuters.com
I'm not sure, what is more of that going to do? That kind of thing has been done for decades about various issues to little or no effect. How will it be any different this time? Especially as it seems like the dynamic of these events have changed already in terms of how the police and media regard them (the police less tolerant and the media less interested).
Lots of the other stuff that has blocked roads has a practical utility of stopping work or something similar, or it's been about creating a space for a party/liberated space from cars. With this I feel like there's a bit of them copying that blocking bit without the context.
So is it solely a numbers game; more activists = more disruption and publicity = government change of heart? That's what the XR's stated strategy is, that 3.5% thing based on the flawed study by Chenoweth and Stephan (which I'm sure most people in XR have no clue about). Or is the plan and goal something else?
A380
How do I change this 'custom title' thing then?
This thread is like the Full English Breakfast one but with the collapse of modern society and death of a huge proportion of humanity rather than hash browns at stake.
Full of people commenting on why people who are doing something are doing it wrong without ‘getting the fucking pans out’ themselves.
Full of people commenting on why people who are doing something are doing it wrong without ‘getting the fucking pans out’ themselves.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I can't even find the kitchen any more.
Numbers are down this rebellion. XR has yet to really recover from Covid, which smashed it's meeting structure for a year.
However as a whole XR has been doing a lot more year round stuff .
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
I think they completely overestimate the amount of people who are willing and able to get to central London for a two week - indefinite period. I was pretty fired up to do something this time, but I really could only spare a couple of days and there's no clear point of crescendo to this rebellion, eg a weekend where numbers are really needed that I could try to get to. So I fucked it off. I think they really need to find more ways of allowing people all round the country to play a part rather than these annual London performances.
I really wonder how my local ER group will function in future given quite a few of the leading members seem to have found a new passion in covid denial.
I really wonder how my local ER group will function in future given quite a few of the leading members seem to have found a new passion in covid denial.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
What city are you in?
No idea how the local group here is doing, it felt like it was struggling before covid about what to do, and I'm not on any social media so completely out of touch now. Like you said people were getting less willing to go to London for ages, and some people also seemed to be less sure about the blockading/disruption stuff for a mix of reasons (others were still very keen and saw it as the main thing XR needed to so and keep doing). There was a slight tendency to seem to move into some vague 'education' direction that was arty stuff or picnics mostly.
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
I'm in Calderdale. There are two groups here it seems, one for Calderdale and one for Halifax, which is bizarre because Halifax is in Calderdale - but likely has emerged like that because people in Hebden Bridge want their own thing rather than getting involved with the main urban centre. I'm probably being unfair to the Calderdale group it's probably only a couple of them who have gone covid-obsessed, and they are likely extremely grateful to be rid of them (assuming that they go down the linked rabbit hole to climate denial as well).
No idea what either group have been up to since the early days when they were more visible. I will try to make an effort to check out what the Halifax group is up to.
8ball
Maximum Facepalm
People round the country are involved in smaller local actions pretty frequently. There was a blockade of a waste incinerator near me a couple of weeks ago (because there are plans to build a new incinerator and the carbon profile of the thing is awful).
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
Fair dos. I've not heard of much round here for a long time but it might be just that I'm out of the loop. And we have a waste incinerator about to be put in a geographically terrible place, rejected by the council and approved by Secretary of State...
What do you think of the idea of oil refineries being blockaded? Or those who invest in and profit from fossil fuels being targeted?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Depends on how etc. I think blockading of currently operating oil facilities is likely to be very difficult (number of entrances, safety concerns, how much comes in and out by road on a daily basis rather than pipes etc.) and it will also be met with a harsh response and likely poor publicity. They also would require a good number of people that would be willing to risk getting arrested, and for it to work they would likely need to do more than just lie in the way, even if they are locked on to stuff. Also obviously strongly single location focused, so people have to travel to do anything, so that would cut involvement/numbers down. And it'd be massive amounts of planning and resources for one day that could just end up an ineffective disaster.
E2A: The people that work there could do it, but that's being possible is a different topic unfortunately.
The financial stuff sounds better, but in reality it is again largely symbolic, and often just results in local bank branches being hit with a banner or something, or maybe the roads in City of London being blocked.
Off top of my head if I were to pick an area for a target I'd hit new any oil and gas exploration. Easy demand, no new oil or gas developments in the UK. Big rolling co-ordinated attacks across the country against anyone involved in them, so decentralized stuff against suppliers, etc. as well as central things possible.
I dunno though, I fully accept it's really difficult and people are trying.
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David Clapson
Well-Known Member
If it doesn't cause a national crisis, why bother? Queues at petrol stations would get people's attention.
ska invita
back on the other side
theres a balance of keeping the public on board i guess
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Quite an unrealistically high bar for doing anything isn't it?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Also has he any idea of who many refineries and for who long they would have to be blocked before the queues even happened?
Also people know about climate change, the idea we need to do things to bring it to their attention is years out of date.
ska invita
back on the other side
i remember the blockages when fuel prices hit 80p!! amazing how quickly everything shut down
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
Surely action needs to be targeted at those with the power to force change. And that is politicians and financial institutions, in the main.
lazythursday
Well-Known Member
And locally, I think there's much more that could be done in terms of co-ordinated pressure on the planning system. Objections to carbon-centric development, protests at meetings, pressure on councillors. It's not glamorous but could start to shift the dial in terms of how much climate is factored into local planning decisions.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It might be easier to exert pressure when planning frameworks are revised because otherwise you'll be burning people out at a rate of knots
YouSir
Retired from Urban
Passed by the Covent Garden thing and chatted to a guy, was keen on building up numbers for these things but I'm not sure why. You could double or triple the numbers I saw and police would still wade through them if they chose to. Same issue with every set piece thing in Central, they all follow the same pattern, get surrounded and gradually wind down. Was also an odd place to choose, one street over by Soho would have been far more disruptive, or financial district.
Leafster
.
This ^^^
It's hard work trying to get individual developments turned down as the environmental standards enshrined in the planning framework aren't particularly high and most developers manage to "tick the boxes" on their environmental obligations.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes lot of police walking around in City today.
YouSir
Retired from Urban
My guess is they're reacting to all the bitching about 'shutting down London'. Oxford Circus, Covent Garden - they're both fairly famous but primarily tourist areas, not loads of people driving around up there. Probably getting longer before the police try to shut them down too than if they went to the city. That said the majority of the complaining about the disruptions comes from people who know nothing about the areas it's happening in. Thames Water cause about 10,000 times more issues to Londoners through their routine negligence than XR ever have.
e2a: Swear that topless woman has gotten more coverage than the rest of the protests combined, fair play to her.
smmudge
i know the smudge is true
The reporter on ITV the other day was saying they'd spoken to someone who was going back to the office for the first time in 18 months, and they just wanted things to get back to normal not have all this disruption, and it was like you've blatantly just made that up
