Extinction Rebellion

[maomao]

I've always wondered how those 'locked-on' cope, so a big shout-out to C-4 News for allowing me to sleep tonight, by confirming they are wearing nappies.

What's wrong with bottles and bedpans? Piss is going to get freezing cold if left next to the body overnight; changing nappy is likely to be more embarassing than going in a bottle and shitting in a nappy is not a solution to anything. Are you sure they weren't pulling the reporter's leg?

 

[BillRiver]

I find it kinda depressing how far pollution of the planet has developed, how bad its got, while protesters remain stuck in pretty much the same set of behaviours as we were doing 25 years ago.

Even having samba bands! Like these protesters are still stuck in the 1990's, blocking roads, doing lock-ons, dressing up and partying, while damage to the planet has ramped up enormously.

I know they've tweaked the tactics somewhat but really not much from what I can see. I was part of it in the 1990's, I kinda hoped the next generation would have exciting new ways of working. Sadly not.

I wish them well but don't see them being any more successful than we were, perhaps even less, unfortunately.

 

[LDC]

I find it kinda depressing how far pollution of the planet has developed, how bad its got, while protesters remain stuck in pretty much the same set of behaviours as we were doing 25 years ago.

Even having samba bands! Like these protesters are still stuck in the 1990's, blocking roads, doing lock-ons, dressing up and partying, while damage to the planet has ramped up enormously.

I know they've tweaked the tactics somewhat but really not much from what I can see. I was part of it in the 1990's, I kinda hoped the next generation would have exciting new ways of working. Sadly not.

I wish them well but don't see them being any more successful than we were, perhaps even less, unfortunately.

They're a bit stuck in what kind of actions they can do though I think, largely due to the no anger, no confrontation, no pushing thing above and beyond non-violence that they insist on. It leaves them a very narrow range of options which is why they seem to keep blocking traffic and some chalking type symbolic stuff. Whether they stick with that or not remains to be seen. I think unless they move to other actions they'll be left behind, either by other people and groups, or just by their diminishing numbers.

This book been mentioned already, but it is well worth a read Verso

 

[8ball]

Sounds like a LARPer fantasist screed.
The right would be creaming themselves at the thought of what they could justify with a blown-up pipeline.

Best kept to the realm of fiction, eh?

That said, the tactics of causing minor inconveniences and asking for things will bump up against its limits pretty quick. The extent of public sympathy/antagonism is going to be a big factor in how it develops. I expect more offshoot groups to form, especially with splits in terms of their stance towards capital (XR have plenty of internal tensions on this front, while trying to remain a ‘big tent’).

 

[Gramsci]

I've noticed my local XR Lambeth have broadened out to support other struggles. Reparations demo, supporting my local PSC in demo. Being present at demo about housing if I'm remember correctly.

Lobbying local Council to run a Peoples Assembly on Climate Change.

On non violent disruption. I don't have a problem with that. It takes courage to be locked to a van in Covent Garden. As I told them.

Chatting to them today at the van and I'm afraid some of Joe Public has grown hostile. I did tell them that Covent Garden isn't really a major route for traffic.

So I'd say on local level they are changing tactics.

I did listen to few minute of speaker at Trafalgar Square. Which was earlier in the day. Trafalgar Square was packed at that point with XR. Speaker was talking about effect of climate change on indigenous communities in the southern hemisphere.

So I do think XR are taking racism as an issue around climate change. Like supporting reparations demo in Brixton few weeks back.

 

[Gramsci]

Fair point, but it doesn't the failings of XR and it's unwillingness to see the root of the problem they are fighting: capitalism. Hopefully that can change

I think thats unfair.

I covered most of the XR protests in London.

XR has different wings. I seem to remember photos from the Scottish lot who did in their banners link Capitalism and climate change.

 

[David Clapson]

They reckon they're super-successful because they've persuaded the press to write more honestly about the currently terrible ongoing climate disaster. They say that before XR the BBC in particular was describing climate breakdown as one of several future alternatives. Personally I think the reality of actual fires and floods and heatwaves is what has changed the press coverage. If XR had never existed I think everything would be better because the public has reacted badly to being lectured by the usual suspects. How many years in a row has the UK missed its emissions targets because everyone wants a huge car?

 

[Gramsci]

Fair point, but it doesn't the failings of XR and it's unwillingness to see the root of the problem they are fighting: capitalism. Hopefully that can change

Searched through posts. This is from Miss-Shelf

Im also pretty sure I took photos of their banners.

TBF I didn't see anything like this today.

XR are pretty amorphous lot. When I chat to them they are very nice earnest people. Not politicos. Which personally I find refreshing. But all left of centre. Definitely.

It could be the Scottish lot weren't in London today. Or have been sidelined in whatever counts as internal decision making in XR.

 

[Gramsci]

They reckon they're super-successful because they've persuaded the press to write more honestly about the currently terrible ongoing climate disaster. They say that before XR the BBC in particular was describing climate breakdown as one of several future alternatives. Personally I think the reality of actual fires and floods and heatwaves is what has changed the press coverage. If XR had never existed I think everything would be better because the public has reacted badly to being lectured by the usual suspects. How many years in a row has the UK missed its emissions targets because everyone wants a huge car?

I don't follow what ur getting at. Are you saying XR are the usual suspects?

 

[LDC]

Sounds like a LARPer fantasist screed.
The right would be creaming themselves at the thought of what they could justify with a blown-up pipeline.

Best kept to the realm of fiction, eh?

Yes, it's a terrible title and not reflective of the contents at all. I recommend reading some reviews to get a feel for what it covers.

Sabotage Can Be Done Softly: On Andreas Malm’s “How to Blow Up a Pipeline” | Los Angeles Review of Books

Scott W. Stern reviews "How to Blow Up a Pipeline," the new book from Andreas Malm.

lareviewofbooks.org

Plenty of people around the world do blow up pipelines btw, it's not just a weird fantasy.

Movement for the Emancipation of the Niger Delta - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

E2A: iirc he argues against terrorism as any kind of useful activity.

 

[LDC]

Fair point, but it doesn't the failings of XR and it's unwillingness to see the root of the problem they are fighting: capitalism. Hopefully that can change

I don't think it as simple as that. Some of XR do think it's just about carbon emissions and that some nicer green capitalism is the answer (which it arguably could be, but that's another discussion....) but also I do think plenty of people involved in XR do see capitalism as the root problem, or at least they will come to through being involved and developing ideas etc.

Even if they don't, then they're still worth critically supporting etc. as with movements the interesting stuff is often not where they are now, but where they might be going and what they could achieve if their action escalates and gains widespread support, etc. That's one of my concerns with them now, that their use of blockades and disruptions is going to lose them support in the medium to long term.

And also if they were clearly 'against capitalism' how would/should that change what they do?

Oh, and I do think some of the arguments for not being supportive of them as they're not reformist and not against capitalism is slightly double standards from some who manage to support other struggles that are more 'traditional' leftie stuff that also just asks for small reforms like higher wages, better conditions, etc.

BLM is another example, round me loads of their public demands are horrendous tbh, and it just seems a vehicle for promotion of 'black businesses' and personalities scrabbling for power, but to dismiss it simply all as that would be a mistake imo.

 

[glitch hiker]

I don't think it as simple as that. Some of XR do think it's just about carbon emissions and that some nicer green capitalism is the answer (which it arguably could be, but that's another discussion....) but also I do think plenty of people involved in XR do see capitalism as the root problem, or at least they will come to through being involved and developing ideas etc.

Even if they don't, then they're still worth critically supporting etc. as with movements the interesting stuff is often not where they are now, but where they might be going and what they could achieve if their action escalates and gains widespread support, etc. That's one of my concerns with them now, that their use of blockades and disruptions is going to lose them support in the medium to long term.

And also if they were clearly 'against capitalism' how would/should that change what they do?

Oh, and I do think some of the arguments for not being supportive of them as they're not reformist and not against capitalism is slightly double standards from some who manage to support other struggles that are more 'traditional' leftie stuff that also just asks for small reforms like higher wages, better conditions, etc.

BLM is another example, round me loads of their public demands are horrendous tbh, and it just seems a vehicle for promotion of 'black businesses' and personalities scrabbling for power, but to dismiss it simply all as that would be a mistake imo.

I'm saying that capitalism is the root of the crisis. In other words, if that isn't confonted then there won't be sufficient change. XR only makes it difficult for themselves by not addressing this. Of course as a movement their members will comprise many views, but the 'leadership' all appear to unequivocally reject this notion. Moreover they don't seem to want to address the possibility at all.
This makes supporting them difficult. THough if that were the only issue it wouldn't be so bad, but the rest of their approach is also problematic: lovebombing the cops and a general belief, it seems, that the state is a benign force just misguided. It isn't about sneering or looking down on them. I am by no means an expert nor should I be taken as one, but their overall approach concerns me. Roger Hallam's attitude towards getting locked up is dreadful. Gail Bradbrook just seems a new age fantasist.
Being against capitalims would at least mean being able to honestly and correctly approach the problem. I would hope it would inform their choice of actions so as to minimise disruption to working class people and have a repeat of the nonsense at Canning Town. It is unfair to label them all as 'professional protesters' who should 'get a job'. A cliche used to divide people, but why give those who weaponise such labels more ammunition than you need to? We all understand, by its nature, protest is disruptive, but there's a difference between annoying people on their way to their only source of income, and targeting directly those causing the problem

 

[A380]

View attachment 284917
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That’s my ex’s new (well 15 or so years) new man! Top stuff.

 

[LDC]

I'm saying that capitalism is the root of the crisis. In other words, if that isn't confonted then there won't be sufficient change. XR only makes it difficult for themselves by not addressing this. Of course as a movement their members will comprise many views, but the 'leadership' all appear to unequivocally reject this notion. Moreover they don't seem to want to address the possibility at all.
This makes supporting them difficult. THough if that were the only issue it wouldn't be so bad, but the rest of their approach is also problematic: lovebombing the cops and a general belief, it seems, that the state is a benign force just misguided. It isn't about sneering or looking down on them. I am by no means an expert nor should I be taken as one, but their overall approach concerns me. Roger Hallam's attitude towards getting locked up is dreadful. Gail Bradbrook just seems a new age fantasist.
Being against capitalims would at least mean being able to honestly and correctly approach the problem. I would hope it would inform their choice of actions so as to minimise disruption to working class people and have a repeat of the nonsense at Canning Town. It is unfair to label them all as 'professional protesters' who should 'get a job'. A cliche used to divide people, but why give those who weaponise such labels more ammunition than you need to? We all understand, by its nature, protest is disruptive, but there's a difference between annoying people on their way to their only source of income, and targeting directly those causing the problem

I largely agree.

 

[ska invita]

In defence of Extinction Rebellion - Freedom News

“The next popular climate movement can only avoid a slow death if its politics are as red as they are green.” – Mark Montegriffo – Jacobin Magazine “TALK’S CHEAP, BUT IT TAKES MONEY TO BUY WHISKEY” – anon (trad) If the torrential rains, firestorms and heat domes didn’t cut through, the release...

freedomnews.org.uk

pt2

In defence of 'In defence of Extinction Rebellion' - Freedom News

It would be prudent for me to open with the affirmation that this is an ‘opinion piece’. It is the opinion of one aging anarchist who has been active in class struggle and ecological resistance for the best part of four decades. As the bandwagon of political focus has shifted over the years, my own

freedomnews.org.uk

<<<one comment on that is i have no faith in the notion of self substance farming

 

[AmateurAgitator]

Extinction Rebellion need to do much more of this sort of thing:

Climate change activists target City of London's Guildhall

Climate change activists climbed the outside of the headquarters of the City of London's government on Sunday as they began two weeks of protests focused on the capital's financial district.

www.reuters.com

 

[8ball]

... lovebombing the cops and a general belief, it seems, that the state is a benign force just misguided. It isn't about sneering or looking down on them. I am by no means an expert nor should I be taken as one, but their overall approach concerns me. Roger Hallam's attitude towards getting locked up is dreadful. Gail Bradbrook just seems a new age fantasist.

I agree with these bits. The approach to the cops is somewhat in flux at the moment - they have become a lot more circumspect, and the same is the case re: capitalism, though that's not really clear from their outward presentation.

 

[8ball]

pt2

In defence of 'In defence of Extinction Rebellion' - Freedom News

It would be prudent for me to open with the affirmation that this is an ‘opinion piece’. It is the opinion of one aging anarchist who has been active in class struggle and ecological resistance for the best part of four decades. As the bandwagon of political focus has shifted over the years, my own

freedomnews.org.uk

<<<one comment on that is i have no faith in the notion of self substance farming

Self substance farming?
Sounds like growing your own weed.

 

[Gramsci]

They were at Cambridge Circus this evening. ( I have a few photos).

Was chatting to one XR. Talked about the police. I said police have wised up and now setting up a two week camp in Central London is not possible. Whilst as I chatting the police loudspeaker was already repeating message about leaving area under such and such an act. The cleared the camp and pink table from Covent Garden last night.

He agreed the police are now able to stop XR camps. I didn't see any love bombing of the police yesterday or today. Much different from the first time. Now they don't talk to police. Also chatting to the XR man and he saw police as part of way State stifles protest. XR have learned. A cop is a cop.

He seemed pessimistic. There aren't the numbers to thwart the police. Hallam non violence depends on more and more people joining up until authorities can't cope.

Not being able to set up a two week camp in Central London limits XR being able to get message across. It turns into a cat and mouse game with police. Which is what the police want.

Police are much more up to arresting people straight off. And waiting for night to remove people.

The novelty has worn off for media. They aren't covering like they were. Afghanistan is front page news.

Im not having a go at XR. Its imo a grim picture. This time mainstream politicians are ignoring them as far as I can see.

The XR guy I talked to did have the XR Beyond Politics belief.

I felt that numbers were lower this time.

They had thwarted the police by setting up the pink table. So must have learnt how to stop police getting intelligence on them.

 

[Gramsci]

As usual all the XR I talked to past few days are ordinary people. Not professional protestors etc. Lot of older people. I enjoyed talking to them. Unlike SWP they don't bang you over the head with the politics.

I did notice Socialist Worker turn up to Cambridge Circus with their stall. Also an Anarchist group from Bristol had a stall.

 

[ska invita]

As usual all the XR I talked to past few days are ordinary people. Not professional protestors etc. Lot of older people.

Protesting on a weekday and not minding getting nicked, definitely something to do once retired

 

[Gramsci]

Cambridge Circus Tuesday evening. XR managed to get van to block it

 

[Gramsci]

Police removing the XR pink table from Covent garden. Took them ages. XR must have made it difficult to move

 

[Gramsci]

Looking at the photo of pink table and I think their were protestors locked onto it.

 

[AmateurAgitator]

It's a continuation of the previous day - protest bogged down in predictability says Martin.

 

[Red Sky]

It's a continuation of the previous day - protest bogged down in predictability says Martin.

Is there anyone more predictable than him?

 

[skyscraper101]

Certainly a more visible presence of coppers around the Bank of England this morning. I think Friday it's expected to kick off round here.

 

[Pickman's model]

Certainly a more visible presence of coppers around the Bank of England this morning. I think Friday it's expected to kick off round here.

The only kick off you'll see with xr is a police riot like when they attacked the climate camp in 09

 

[kabbes]

Aren’t still only about 20% of people returning to offices in London? The protests in the City must be to empty streets, no?

 

[Pickman's model]

Aren’t still only about 20% of people returning to offices in London? The protests in the City must be to empty streets, no?

No, there are loads of journos watching