Extinction Rebellion
- Thread starter Jeremiah18.17
- Start date
So how well do the anarchists do in not getting convergence spaces raided ahead of mobilisations ?
Liked for the video in all its low budget glory.
What was plastered on Facebook?Squinting with my head on its side I didn’t manage to get that message
he’s saying don’t do the coppers int gathering for them i.e don’t plaster it on Facebook
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
there have been times when the convergence spaces have been raided, eg the bacon (or was it button?) factory round loughborough junction back in the very early 2000s. but it's probably from precisely these experiences that people like the article's author have come to their conclusions.
Before G20, before Dsei etc etc
The fact is that the only way to be sure of not getting police interference in your mobilising is to liaise with them, promise to obey the law and isolate troublemakers.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Really?
bellaozzydog
rolling turds in glitter
I bet you floss and mouthwash every night
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
I do think there is some important utility of not making political stuff a 'secret' though and making efforts towards openness, it often enables wider participation for example.
The issue is partly isn't just whether stuff is public or not (and let's be honest, nearly all political activity is open or public in some way, especially to those watching it with interest like the cops) so much as in whether you then are popular enough, and so have the numbers and support for the cops stopping it before to not be possible, or a least enough to make it very difficult for them.
I think the issue people have is probably more XR and the broader way they do things and politics they have, as if this was some workers factory occupation I'm not sure many would be so vocal in their criticism, so I think some of the criticism comes from a slightly dishonest position, even if that's unintentionally.
The issue is partly isn't just whether stuff is public or not (and let's be honest, nearly all political activity is open or public in some way, especially to those watching it with interest like the cops) so much as in whether you then are popular enough, and so have the numbers and support for the cops stopping it before to not be possible, or a least enough to make it very difficult for them.
I think the issue people have is probably more XR and the broader way they do things and politics they have, as if this was some workers factory occupation I'm not sure many would be so vocal in their criticism, so I think some of the criticism comes from a slightly dishonest position, even if that's unintentionally.
What does that even mean?
Yeah, really.Really?
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
black and white as this is it?
No other groups or actions been successful without liaising with police?
I think you need to go back and re read the post.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Bless you x
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
is this not what you posted?
Meaning that any movement that pushes for anything beyond state sanctioned protest is liable to be interfered with by the police and that having a pop at XR for getting busted is out of order.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Yes, that's what the police do
There have been protests pulled off without police liaison or interference tho I'm sure you'll concede
It's not having a pop about them getting busted, it's having a pop at them publicising it widely before it even had a chance, and they know they're being watched closely (leading to them getting busted)
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
I've been thinking about this a bit, and I think the semi-serious conclusion I've reached is: never go to London for anything ever. Don't go to London to XR stuff, don't go to London for non-XR stuff, problem sorted.
My less facetious point is: I think one really good thing that's come out of the pandemic is that it's forced the last year of BLM and Kill the Bill stuff to focus much more on local actions instead of Big Days Out in London. Which doesn't solve all the possible problems, but does definitely reduce the problem of the police raiding the place you set up for everyone coming from outside of London to have a kip the night before.
Tbh, if it was a workers factory occupation I'd expect them to occupy it first and then publicise it afterwards. If a group of workers publicly announced "at this time on this date we're going to occupy our factory", and then turned up to find coppers everywhere, I'd be sympathetic to them but I'd still think they were doing things in a bit of a silly way.
My less facetious point is: I think one really good thing that's come out of the pandemic is that it's forced the last year of BLM and Kill the Bill stuff to focus much more on local actions instead of Big Days Out in London. Which doesn't solve all the possible problems, but does definitely reduce the problem of the police raiding the place you set up for everyone coming from outside of London to have a kip the night before.
Which successful mass mobilisations are you thinking of?
I agree with some of what you say here but I do think anything which leaves a group open to being raided by the police is inherently not suitable for wider participation - though it may still be worth doing.
I mean, anything open to people who can't risk arrest whether that's for health reasons, immigration reasons, having care responsibility reasons, or whatever, needs to work really hard to protect those people as a priority.
I don't think this action was like that, or at least I hope it wasn't. I really hope XR are getting better at informing, protecting, and supporting people who join their actions, because in the recent past they have been atrocious on those fronts.
ddraig
kicking against the pricks...
Are you a swappie?
No.Are you a swappie?
That's all civil disobedience and direct action off the table then.
So which were you thinking of?Are you a swappie?
Not at all. Where did I suggest any such thing?
Because they leave you open to being raided by the police
So you make sure everyone involved understands the risks and gives informed consent to being involved. It's not hard.
If there's one thing XR are clear about it's the risk of getting nicked!
Not what I've witnessed, at all. But maybe they're better at that nowadays. My info and experiences all pre-date covid.
