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Essential Trump/Alt-Right Ridicule Thread

How do you go from Spart to this?
Good question. I don't know how familiar you are with American political history, but such a transition is not at all unusual.
About half the founding editors of National Review -- American flagship conservative journal -- had been Marxists, of one flavor
or another. And I'm in touch with, or have known, half a dozen former Spartacists who made the same trip.

Here's what I'll say: I have exactly the same values now that I had sixty years ago, basically, as raw emotion, I'm on the side of the
underdog, and as a settled intellectual outlook, I am in favor of human progress... an extension of the Enlightenment, essentially.

I agree with what Marx and Engels wrote in The Communist Manifesto, about the amazing wonders in the growtih of the productive
forces that the bourgeoisie has unlocked ... ... they were right, and you can see it documented at HumanProgress -- have a look,
you may be surprised!

I believe conservatism and liberalism, or 'leftism' and 'rightism', what you will, should be seen basically as dispositions, not ideologies.
Certainly there is no conservative ideology, although many conservatives would like to have one -- it makes thinking easier -- so they
borrow libertarian ideology, at least in theory.

As for the Left ... it has changed beyond all recognition. A lot of people on the Right talking about 'Commies' etc but in reality we have
a post-Marxist Left. And, ironically, an inversion of several positions classically held by both sides. So, sixty years ago, the Left was generally
in favor of free speech, and the Right ... not so much. Now it's flipped. Astonishing!

In my youth, and earlier, the serious Left -- Socialists on out -- knew perfectly well that the white American working class held many backward
ideas, on race, sex, etc. But they believed these would be burned away in the fires of the class struggle, with a little help from the more advanced
workers. And they made great sacrfices to reach and organize these people, backward as they were : they built the great industrial unions which
improved life so much for their members.

Now the Left -- not the ones in the Marxist groups, but the vast majority -- despises their own working class, whom they see as their social inferiors.

It's a tragedy, in a way. Traditionally the American Right were reflexive patriots and nationalists: if the President announced we were going to war with
Absurdistan, they would back him instantly and without question. [A coule of exceptions: American Conservative, Pat Buchanan's journal; and the Libertarians
of various sorts, who are 'conservatism with a human face'. But they were just a thin layer of intelligentsia. The auto mechanic and the waitress were reflexive
'support our troops' "Bomb 'em back to the Stone Age" patriots.

Twenty years of education in the school of hard knocks and IED's have changed all that ... "Experience keeps a dear school ..." etc. In other words, with
respect to foreign policy, they have come around to the reflexive position of the Left
! Invade? Start another war? Nein, danke.

But ... this opportunity for a united front on the most important issue facing the country is being missed! We may get dragged into a stupid war because
the Russians don't want missiles on their border, just like we didn't want them 90 miles from our border 60 years ago.

There are other ways in which the mainstream, rank and file, American Right has changed from what it was several decades ago. You won't want to believe this,
because it's psychologically comforting to demonize one's enemy, but on questions of race and sexual orientation, I would say the majority of American conservatives --
at least, as I have observed them via the internet, and I've been doing this intensively for about three years now -- are essentially liberals,
albeit 1960's liberals.
And I'm including the hard core, like those in the miliita movement, which I have a pretty good knoweldge of. Yes, you can find exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

There are a few people on the Left who understand this ... Tulsi Gabbard is an example ... but not many. A shame.

Okay, enough. You (and others) can make some clever sarky comments, or we can have a serious discussion. I prefer the latter, but it's still a free country.

Added: one other thing -- I remained a socialist for years after I left the SL, probably best described as a 'Deutscherite' if you're familiar with Isaac Deutscher, ie I didn't
think socialism was imminent in the West, but I hoped to see a peaceful evolution towards democracy in the Soviet Union, where I lived for a few months in 1985, accompanying
my then-wife who was a Fulbright Exchange Scholar in Kharkov. Well, that was a bust.

But at some point I read about the "Socialist Calculation Question" (sometimes called the "Economic Exchange Question"), and it seemed to me to be clear, irrefutable
evidence that a really Socialist economy -- central planning etc -- would be massively inefficient. I looked for refutations -- I'm a Popperian with respect to trying to find
disconfirming evidence for one's beliefs - but never found any. I think most Socialists are emotional socialists ... they don't think about how the system could actually work .
(I mean full, red-blooded, all-in socialism.) I certainly was.

I've also been influenced by Charles Murray's study of the actual results of welfare programs, as in Losing Ground, although I am in favor of a 'conservative welfare state', sort
of like they have in friendly old Singapore. My general politics are those of the American Compass group, if you are familiar with them.
 
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VirulentNeoCon is your argument that the Left have become elitists and the right are now on the side of the working man?

How do you square this with economic liberalism? Do you now believe the capitalism is the best state of affairs for humanity?

Does freedom boil down to the 1st amendment and the free market?

Here's what I'll say: I have exactly the same values now that I had sixty years ago, basically, as raw emotion, I'm on the side of the
underdog, and as a settled intellectual outlook, I am in favor of human progress... an extension of the Enlightenment, essentially.

Nothing says underdog like a golden elevator. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)
 
VirulentNeoCon is your argument that the Left have become elitists and the right are now on the side of the working man?

How do you square this with economic liberalism? Do you now believe the capitalism is the best state of affairs for humanity?

Does freedom boil down to the 1st amendment and the free market?



Nothing says underdog like a golden elevator. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself.)
Golden elevator? A reference to Trump?

On your first question: at this stage in human history, I think a liberal democracy, with wide freedom of expression (which I take is what you mean by the 1st amendment)
with a lightly-regulated free market is indeed the best state of affairs for humanity. It's obvious. What do you believe is the best state of affairs for humanity?

(I qualify everything by 'at this stage in human history', because who knows what advances in technology -- AI, genetics -- will make of us in a hundred, five hundred, years. Maybe
we'll be living in 'fully automated communism', as one optimist on the Left put it. Maybe advances in genetics will turn us all into benevolent super-geniuses with indefinite lifespans. No way
to know. But for right now, this is what works. The worst system in the world except for all the others, to use a well-worn phrase.

I used to be pretty dogmatic Free Trader, but am no longer. Getting locked into an ideology should be avoided at all costs -- it can turn reasonable people into robots. Ask me how I know.

As for what 'freedom' boils down to, yes, it's mainly the absence of unnecessary constraints. BUT ... there is a key role for a coercive, tax-grabbing state: to ensure a high-quality,
free at point of consumption, education system. I think we could do MUCH better, although that's really a topic for a separate thread.

And, I would like to see something like Singapore's 'Provident Fund', for health care and similar possible needs.

The Repubicans have been the Chamber of Commerce Party. They still captured the votes of much of the white working class -- you're probably familiar with Thomas Frank's

What's the Matter with Kansas?: How Conservatives Won the Heart of America

[ Amazon.com ]

If you're a reader, here are some interesting books, one by a conservative and two by people who are left of center:

FH Buckley ,The Republican Workers Party? [ Amazon.com ]

Robert Cherry, Welfare Transformed: Universalizing Family Policies That Work Welfare Transformed: Universalizing Family Policies That Work - Kindle edition by Cherry, Robert. Politics & Social Sciences Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com. ]

Michael Lind, The New Class War: Saving Democracy from the Managerial Elite
And what the hell, for readers here, something you will like, by someone I have just discovered, a very sensible fellow -- not a book, a couple of essays on line:

"Liberals read, Conservatives watch television". Liberals Read, Conservatives Watch TV

"America as a Phantom Empire" America as a "Phantom Empire"

There are several other excellent essays by this man, who is not afraid to get the bad news first. Whatever side of the
barricades you're on, you'll appreciate him.
 
Yes, you're probably right. I just stumbled on this thread becasue a friend of mine turned me on to it, because I'm an ex-Spartacist.

Does your friend post here, or is he a lurker?

I suppose if spartacists are right wing and you wish to mock them, you would be right to post on this thread.

Can't speak for others on this thread, but I come here for a laugh or to see what the right wingers are up to.
I don't come on this thread to read essays.
I just scroll on by.
 
Good question. I don't know how familiar you are with American political history, but such a transition is not at all unusual.
About half the founding editors of National Review -- American flagship conservative journal -- had been Marxists, of one flavor
or another. And I'm in touch with, or have known, half a dozen former Spartacists who made the same trip.

Here's what I'll say: I have exactly the same values now that I had sixty years ago, basically, as raw emotion, I'm on the side of the
underdog, and as a settled intellectual outlook, I am in favor of human progress... an extension of the Enlightenment, essentially.

I agree with what Marx and Engels wrote in The Communist Manifesto, about the amazing wonders in the growtih of the productive
forces that the bourgeoisie has unlocked ... ... they were right, and you can see it documented at HumanProgress -- have a look,
you may be surprised!

I believe conservatism and liberalism, or 'leftism' and 'rightism', what you will, should be seen basically as dispositions, not ideologies.
Certainly there is no conservative ideology, although many conservatives would like to have one -- it makes thinking easier -- so they
borrow libertarian ideology, at least in theory.

As for the Left ... it has changed beyond all recognition. A lot of people on the Right talking about 'Commies' etc but in reality we have
a post-Marxist Left. And, ironically, an inversion of several positions classically held by both sides. So, sixty years ago, the Left was generally
in favor of free speech, and the Right ... not so much. Now it's flipped. Astonishing!

In my youth, and earlier, the serious Left -- Socialists on out -- knew perfectly well that the white American working class held many backward
ideas, on race, sex, etc. But they believed these would be burned away in the fires of the class struggle, with a little help from the more advanced
workers. And they made great sacrfices to reach and organize these people, backward as they were : they built the great industrial unions which
improved life so much for their members.

Now the Left -- not the ones in the Marxist groups, but the vast majority -- despises their own working class, whom they see as their social inferiors.

It's a tragedy, in a way. Traditionally the American Right were reflexive patriots and nationalists: if the President announced we were going to war with
Absurdistan, they would back him instantly and without question. [A coule of exceptions: American Conservative, Pat Buchanan's journal; and the Libertarians
of various sorts, who are 'conservatism with a human face'. But they were just a thin layer of intelligentsia. The auto mechanic and the waitress were reflexive
'support our troops' "Bomb 'em back to the Stone Age" patriots.

Twenty years of education in the school of hard knocks and IED's have changed all that ... "Experience keeps a dear school ..." etc. In other words, with
respect to foreign policy, they have come around to the reflexive position of the Left
! Invade? Start another war? Nein, danke.

But ... this opportunity for a united front on the most important issue facing the country is being missed! We may get dragged into a stupid war because
the Russians don't want missiles on their border, just like we didn't want them 90 miles from our border 60 years ago.

There are other ways in which the mainstream, rank and file, American Right has changed from what it was several decades ago. You won't want to believe this,
because it's psychologically comforting to demonize one's enemy, but on questions of race and sexual orientation, I would say the majority of American conservatives --
at least, as I have observed them via the internet, and I've been doing this intensively for about three years now -- are essentially liberals,
albeit 1960's liberals.
And I'm including the hard core, like those in the miliita movement, which I have a pretty good knoweldge of. Yes, you can find exceptions, but they are just that, exceptions.

There are a few people on the Left who understand this ... Tulsi Gabbard is an example ... but not many. A shame.

Okay, enough. You (and others) can make some clever sarky comments, or we can have a serious discussion. I prefer the latter, but it's still a free country.

Added: one other thing -- I remained a socialist for years after I left the SL, probably best described as a 'Deutscherite' if you're familiar with Isaac Deutscher, ie I didn't
think socialism was imminent in the West, but I hoped to see a peaceful evolution towards democracy in the Soviet Union, where I lived for a few months in 1985, accompanying
my then-wife who was a Fulbright Exchange Scholar in Kharkov. Well, that was a bust.

But at some point I read about the "Socialist Calculation Question" (sometimes called the "Economic Exchange Question"), and it seemed to me to be clear, irrefutable
evidence that a really Socialist economy -- central planning etc -- would be massively inefficient. I looked for refutations -- I'm a Popperian with respect to trying to find
disconfirming evidence for one's beliefs - but never found any. I think most Socialists are emotional socialists ... they don't think about how the system could actually work .
(I mean full, red-blooded, all-in socialism.) I certainly was.

I've also been influenced by Charles Murray's study of the actual results of welfare programs, as in Losing Ground, although I am in favor of a 'conservative welfare state', sort
of like they have in friendly old Singapore. My general politics are those of the American Compass group, if you are familiar with them.

OK boomer
 
Does your friend post here, or is he a lurker?

I suppose if spartacists are right wing and you wish to mock them, you would be right to post on this thread.

Can't speak for others on this thread, but I come here for a laugh or to see what the right wingers are up to.
I don't come on this thread to read essays.
I just scroll on by.
Sure, free country. I post similar essays on right wing websites and most of the readers there are like you, except, of course they laugh at the Left..
Life is short, we all need a laugh.
I don't think the Sparacists are { is that the right tense?] 'right wing'. I don't think the fellow who turned me on to this site posts on it, although I saw his name mentioned.

But maybe I ought to pay some dues, if you would like a laugh. Here's one of my favorite jokes:

A few months after a young nun had entered a convent, the sisters were all invited by a local golf course to come and have a free golf lesson.

She went, but after a couple of hours, came back very upset, in floods of tears. The Mother Superior took her into her office, and asked, "What is
wrong, my dear?" "Oh, Mother", she replied, " I ... I ... I blasphemed! I uttered terribly rude words and offended the ears of God!"

"Well ...we are all sinners, dear ... what was the occasion of your blasphemy?" asked the Mother Superior.

"Well, I was teeing off .. as they told me .. and I swung and hit the ball ... and it was perfect ... very far, and high, rolling right toward the hole ... and then ... and then...
a squirrel darted out and grabbed the ball and began to run away with it!"

"Ah ... and THEN it was you blasphemed ... well anyone would ... "

"NO, Mother, NO .. because then, an eagle swooped down and caught the squirrel, with the ball,
and began to fly away with them..."

"Extraordianary!" exclaimed the Mother Superior ... and of course then you blasphemed... well ."

"NO, Mother, NO ... I didn't blaspheme then, because the eagle, as he was flying over the pond near the hole,
the squirrel DROPPED the ball, straight down towards the pond...."

"Ah .. I see, and THEN you ..."

NO, Mother, NO ... because there was a turtle in the pond, and the ball hit his shell, and bounced out, and rolled toward
the hole, and stopped just three feet away from it! ...."


"WAIT! Said the Mother Superior ...
....
...
...
NOW I know the occasion for your blasphemy .... I see it all...
......
....
YOU ....
.....
.....
....
MISSED ...
.....
.....
....
THE...
....
....
...
.....

FUCKING PUTT!
 
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Yes, most of us do. They just become one other tool of a well-ordered household, held for a just-in-case situation, should
there be some dramatic rupture in the social order, in the case of long arms; and, of course, in the case of handguns,
handy when there is a micro-rupture while you're in a convenience store.

Unless you're a hunter. Personally, I could never see the attraction of killing defenseless animals, just the opposite in fact, but de gustibus and all that.
Well being UK based we don't have the easy access to them that you do in the US and having been a teenager in France I mostly came across them by being acquainted with another teenager whose family was shall we say "dodgy" gun dealers, so a different storyline to yours.
 
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Well being UK based we don't have the easy access to them that you do in the US and having been a teenager in France I mostly came across them by being acquainted with another teenager whose family was shall we say "dodgy" gun dealers, so a different storyline to yours.
I actually live in the UK as well, although I'm an American. How come you to be in France?
 
‘The bigger the lie’ and all that. A lot of people looked at The Apprentice and thought they were looking at a business genius. Except it was all smoke and mirrors. A reality TV show host got elected president. But then again look at Reagan. The great communicator. I suppose he was if you enjoy propaganda.
Princess David still tickles me 😀 Like his mate Thatcher it was obvious they were unwell when in power
 
I can only give you an operational definition.

Take a group of young people, both sexes, numerous enough to be a representative sample of the whole population. Say, 12 years old.

Give everyone a choice of toys. Dolls, chemistry sets, guns, Lego, etc. I claim that a large proportion, probably a majority, of the boys, will choose the gun.

Or set up a different test: same selection, maybe aged 16. Just a few choices: a day at a firing range, which will include burning through a few magazines with an SA80;
a day at a nursery, taking care of babies; a day learning how to garden; a day seeing how automobiles are assembled; a day at the British Museum;
a day seeing how new dresses are designed. Add your own.

You can only choose one.

I believe that a majority of the boys would go to the firing range. Hey, I could be wrong.

Yes, you could be wrong.

You could be right.

Are you "normal"?
 
How do you go from Spart to this?
The common thread that runs through Sparts and the libertarian right is a creepy opposition to age of consent laws (justified in terms of sexual liberation). I suspect our new friend saw the opportunity to do all that and be a gunwanker at the same time and so couldn't resist the pull of the right.

VirulentNeoCon cards on the table time. Have you ever cut the face off a dog and worn it as a mask to a party?
 
yyyyup


“Sorry, I have blonde hair, white skin, a great job, a great future, and I’m not going to jail,” she wrote.

Ryan’s braggadocio apparently backfired. She was later sentenced to 60 days in prison by a judge who noted that she had become one of the faces of Jan. 6.

Ryan, 51, reported to prison Dec. 21. In an interview with NBC News five days earlier, she expressed regret for entering the Capitol but still portrayed herself as a victim. She went so far as to assert that the backlash she has received is akin to the experience of “the Jews in Germany.”

“They’re making fun of my skin color. They’re calling me an ‘insurrection Barbie,’” she said.
This bit is also great:
Ryan’s travails before and after Jan. 6 have been well-documented.

She previously said that she flew by private jet to Washington for Trump’s “Stop the Steal” rally after receiving an invitation via Facebook from a “very cute guy.”
I feel I must have done my fair share of daft stuff to impress people I've had crushes on, but somehow it never reached "flying by private jet to Washington DC for a Trump rally" levels of daft?
Indeed. You may think you don’t like guns.
The answer to the quandary is the same as the answer to so many quandaries: more guns.
I think I saw our new friend being interviewed once:
 
Inappropriate Content
The common thread that runs through Sparts and the libertarian right is a creepy opposition to age of consent laws (justified in terms of sexual liberation). I suspect our new friend saw the opportunity to do all that and be a gunwanker at the same time and so couldn't resist the pull of the right.

VirulentNeoCon cards on the table time. Have you ever cut the face off a dog and worn it as a mask to a party?
The common thread that runs through the Left is celebration of paedophilia -- Hollywood came out in droves for Mr Polanski, and starting way back in the 1960s there has been an openly pro-Paedophile current in the Left -- check out the Paedophile Information Exchange in the UK, or the North American Man-Boy Love Association in the US -- plus, pleasure when people trying to establish a liberal democracy in backward Muslim shitholes are defeated, and women are dragged back into semi-slavery, with young girls forced to marry the Left's mujahadiin heroes.
 
Personal Attacks
The common thread that runs through Sparts and the libertarian right is a creepy opposition to age of consent laws (justified in terms of sexual liberation). I suspect our new friend saw the opportunity to do all that and be a gunwanker at the same time and so couldn't resist the pull of the right.

VirulentNeoCon cards on the table time. Have you ever cut the face off a dog and worn it as a mask to a party?
No, but I did fuck your mother once. Okay, I was hard up, she looks like you. And it was partly motivated by pity, she was sodesperate.
 
The common thread that runs through the Left is celebration of paedophilia -- Hollywood came out in droves for Mr Polanski, and starting way back in the 1960s there has been an openly pro-Paedophile current in the Left -- check out the Paedophile Information Exchange in the UK, or the North American Man-Boy Love Association in the US -- plus, pleasure when people trying to establish a liberal democracy in backward Muslim shitholes are defeated, and women are dragged back into semi-slavery, with young girls forced to marry the Left's mujahadiin heroes.

This is fucking bullshit.
 
This is fucking bullshit.
Get someone to read these to you:







 
Course theres no pedos on the right, no sireeee. Obviously some kind of weird connection between politics and perversion.

What a fuckin dimwit
The best part is that one of the articles our gun fever spart posted is specifically about how the alt-right invented child abuse allegations in the pizzagate saga, which later became a founding myth of Q:
And the list of Polanski supporters in the Nation article include Telegraph/Spectator/Washington Post writer Anne Applebaum and Bernard Henri-Levy. Perfect representatives of the u75 groupthink, obviously.
 
I predict that you're going to last a long time on this board.
Well, Yuwipi, I treat people as they treat me. Seems fair. (Okay, maybe I add a bit of interest to the capital when I repay it.)

I actually have several friends on the Left, scattered out along the spectrum, even to its furtherest extreme. We disagree sharply
about what needs to be done to fix the world, but we recognize each other's sincerity and personal integrity.

In fact, at the moment, I'm not really interested in arguing with Leftists. What I would rather do is to see if we might be able
to take a couple of areas where we have substantial agreement, and turn it into effective action.

For example: the world seems to be moving in an ominous direction right now: as in Ukraine.

In the past, the folks on the Right were reflexive patriots -- any war the President wanted to start, they backed it, with enthusiasm.
No longer. In effect, they have become liberals with respect to foreign interventions.

Hard to believe perhaps, but true.
It's not a well-thought-out, settled conviction, they have not elaborated an alternative to their former positions, but
the sentiment is there, and it's strong. Tucker Carlson merely reflects this.

Yes, there are still some people who have the same views they had in 2001, including outright chauvinists,
but they're very much in the minority now. Rememeber that my side has got a lot of vets -- and no one is more credible,
on the Right at least, than a veteran explaining why he was sent on Mission Impossible.

But this could change.

Now ... wouldn't it be good if this mass feeling -- no more trying to bring democracy to the Third World at the point of American
bayonets -- could be consolidated, crystalized, given some informational content, and above all, directed at our elected
representatives so that they would think twice about sending in the 82nd Airborne to some place they are not wanted?

It won't happen without conscious effort. You probably know as well as I do that our dear representatives in Congress, from both
parties, are deeply entangled in the military-industrial complex, through campaign contributions, the influence of lobbyists, job
offers for them and their friends and relations. (You probably know also that it was a Republican, President Eisenhower, who coined
this term and pointed out the dangers that its existence posed to our Republic.)

Okay, this thread is for laughing at the Right and feeling superior, not for serious discussion. But if anyone's interested in exploring
what I'm proposing, DM me, or maybe -- if I'm not kicked ott -- I'll start a thread on it.
 
The common thread that runs through the Left is celebration of paedophilia -- Hollywood came out in droves for Mr Polanski, and starting way back in the 1960s there has been an openly pro-Paedophile current in the Left -- check out the Paedophile Information Exchange in the UK, or the North American Man-Boy Love Association in the US -- plus, pleasure when people trying to establish a liberal democracy in backward Muslim shitholes are defeated, and women are dragged back into semi-slavery, with young girls forced to marry the Left's mujahadiin heroes.
Never heard of the freedom association and their interesting takes on age of consent laws I see.
 
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