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Entirely unashamed anti car propaganda, and the more the better.

farmerbarleymow said:
Completely agree with this - there's no reason to have a car that can break speed limits.
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It's not just speed but rate of acceleration, which is what you see leading to crashes in many of these supercar videos. Plus, the power to accelerate rapidly encourages risky overtaking and aggressive driving in general. And it makes car movements harder for pedestrians to predict in urban environments.

Usually we'd now see someone show up with the argument that aggressive acceleration is actually a safety feature but I think this thread has hopefully done sufficiently good education that no-one is going to be stupid enough to come up with that one now.
 
teuchter said:
Usually we'd now see someone show up with the argument that aggressive acceleration is actually a safety feature but I think this thread has hopefully done sufficiently good education that no-one is going to be stupid enough to come up with that one now.
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There's time yet - there are probably some on here who would defend such reckless speeding.
 
Elpenor said:
Almost kills a cyclist



The driver should be banned for life IMO
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Video now removed but it showed a man in a supercar accelerate rapidly m as he turned on to a bridge over the Thames, lose control of the vehicle and spin into the opposite lane, hitting the barriers between the pavement and the highway, almost hitting a cyclist
 
Elpenor said:
Video now removed but it showed a man in a supercar accelerate rapidly m as he turned on to a bridge over the Thames, lose control of the vehicle and spin into the opposite lane, hitting the barriers between the pavement and the highway, almost hitting a cyclist
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It’s still here.



Good account to follow!
 
ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
A warning letter might arrive a little too late to prevent an accident? Perhaps a sign of some sort?
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It’s amazing how speeding fines and cameras are seen as somehow cheating by drivers. Every deterrent to speeding has to be marked out and clearly warned.


I was watching the cabbies sat nav the other day and just all these warnings about speed cameras and red light cameras seem to just normalise the idea you can do whatever as long as your not being watched by The Man
 
farmerbarleymow said:
Completely agree with this - there's no reason to have a car that can break speed limits.
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Are you talking about limiters (which is a good idea), or simply not using powerful engines?
If an engine has to run flat out to make the speed limit, it's not going to be a great thing for the planet. There has to be some sort of excess to keep it in the efficiency curve. Even mopeds empty their tanks surprisingly fast running flat out. I can see an argument for normal consumer vehicles not needing more than - to pull a number out of my butt - 100hp. (my car has 108 and seems nippy enough to me) But a 100hp car can still hit 100mph+ given enough space to do it in. Buses have historically got by on 250hp just fine for larger vehicles.

Yes, cars got by on less in the past, but modern cars are much heavier for a variety of reasons. Most of them good reasons. Plus we're talking about a limit - say 100 for premium vehicles, 80 for most muck and 65 for a basic box.

What the video demonstrates is the idiocy of having enough power to wheelspin driving on the straight and narrow, which is a frankly absurd amount of power for anything not dedicated to a track.
 
Impose a limit on maximum speed and a limit on maximum rate of acceleration. The unconstrained maximum power of the engine can be whatever delivers the most efficiency at everyday driving speeds.
 
teuchter said:
Impose a limit on maximum speed and a limit on maximum rate of acceleration. The unconstrained maximum power of the engine can be whatever delivers the most efficiency at everyday driving speeds.
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Or tiered licensing, based on power and age, like motorbikes.
 
teuchter said:
How about we just decide safety is what's important, and people can "enjoy certain vehicles" somewhere that's not the public road.
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Presumably, you'd be happy never enjoying a bus ride, then? Because it'd be safer if everyone walked.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
Oh do fuck off :D
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What? We'd all be safer with no planes, trains, busses, etc. In fact, if we just stayed inside our houses. But, as a society, we balance public safety with the freedom to do stuff. I'm not sure the balance is too far off at the moment, but I still think there's a bit more we could do to improve safety without any negative impacts e.g. making the test tougher, a licensing system that's tiered and restricted by power and age, compulsory retesting, better enforcement and stiffer penalties, etc. And, of course, incentivising people to use public transport by making more routes, more frequent, and free (particularly in cities).
 
Athos said:
What? We'd all be safer with no planes, trains, busses, etc. In fact, if we just stayed inside our houses. But, as a society, we balance public safety with the freedom to do stuff. I'm not sure the balance is too far off at the moment, but I still think there's a bit more we could do to improve safety without any negative impacts e.g. making the test tougher, a licensing system that's tiered and restricted by power and age, compulsory retesting, better enforcement and stiffer penalties, etc. And, of course, incentivising people to use public transport by making more routes, more frequent, and free (particularly in cities).
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Sorry, if all you’ve got as an excuse for driving vehicles capable of twice the speed limit and ridiculous acceleration is “because I want to” you really need to try harder.
 
Athos said:
What? We'd all be safer with no planes, trains, busses, etc. In fact, if we just stayed inside our houses. But, as a society, we balance public safety with the freedom to do stuff. I'm not sure the balance is too far off at the moment, but I still think there's a bit more we could do to improve safety without any negative impacts e.g. making the test tougher, a licensing system that's tiered and restricted by power and age, compulsory retesting, better enforcement and stiffer penalties, etc. And, of course, incentivising people to use public transport by making more routes, more frequent, and free (particularly in cities).
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You don't incentivise use of public transport by pandering to the idea that people have a right to enjoy driving in itself. And the idea that it's such a god given right that it's ok to make some compromise on safety in order to facilitate it.

We should be making it more enjoyable to use other, less harmful forms of transport. For cycling and walking, getting rid of un-necessarily powerful cars would serve this end. And bus journeys are more enjoyable when the bus is not caught up in congestion caused by people deciding that their car is a more enjoyable environment so use it for journeys where they could have used public transport.
 
beesonthewhatnow said:
Sorry, if all you’ve got as an excuse for driving vehicles capable of twice the speed limit and ridiculous acceleration is “because I want to” you really need to try harder.
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People don't need "an excuse" to choose to live differently from you. And I'm not sure that stopping them from doing so would have all that much effect; I don't have the date data, but I'd be surprised if most accidents were are speeds below the national limit. There's plenty of things that would help road safety before that.
 
teuchter said:
You don't incentivise use of public transport by pandering to the idea that people have a right to enjoy driving in itself. And the idea that it's such a god given right that it's ok to make some compromise on safety in order to facilitate it.

We should be making it more enjoyable to use other, less harmful forms of transport. For cycling and walking, getting rid of un-necessarily powerful cars would serve this end. And bus journeys are more enjoyable when the bus is not caught up in congestion caused by people deciding that their car is a more enjoyable environment so use it for journeys where they could have used public transport.
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It's not a god-given right; it's a freedom we as a society have chosen, weighted against the risks.

I agree we should make other forms of transport more attractive; I'm just not sure that banning powerful cars would have that effect.

For many cars are a more enjoyable environment; they find public transport expensive, inconvenient, and unpleasant e.g. scrotes playing shitty music. Though i accept there's a chicken-and-egg problem to some extent.
 
Athos said:
What? We'd all be safer with no planes, trains, busses, etc. In fact, if we just stayed inside our houses. But, as a society, we balance public safety with the freedom to do stuff. I'm not sure the balance is too far off at the moment, but I still think there's a bit more we could do to improve safety without any negative impacts e.g. making the test tougher, a licensing system that's tiered and restricted by power and age, compulsory retesting, better enforcement and stiffer penalties, etc. And, of course, incentivising people to use public transport by making more routes, more frequent, and free (particularly in cities).
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If there’s a line to be drawn, why not draw it before the point where you’re justifying people playing with dangerous toys on public roads?
 
kabbes said:
If there’s a line to be drawn, why not draw it before the point where you’re justifying people playing with dangerous toys on public roads?
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All cars have the potential to be dangerous. It's the "playing" with them i.e. how they're driven that's the real issue. Focusing on the power of a minority is, I suspect, not the best way to improve road safety. I don't have a car (albeit I drive my wife's, sometimes), but I ride bikes. Some of them are capable of terrifying speeds and face-melting acceleration, but I tend to save that for the track. There's no reason why I can't enjoy them on the road at slower speeds the rest of the time.
 
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